RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (Full Version)

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marcpennington -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (6/30/2015 12:07:25 AM)

I got absolutely no worries on this one. 2by3's record on games is impeccable, and I can't imagine they would have pulled the trigger on resurrecting (well, that's the wrong word as WinSPWW2 and WinSPWAW are both doing quite fine...) this franchise unless they were confident the time was right and the right engine there.

So I'll just go back to drooling on what is to come.



Werewolf13 -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (6/30/2015 12:58:16 AM)

quote:


Seriously, if it goes that route, I will wait until the "platinum edition" goes on sale for $5, and let the others pay $100 for another stupid Bulge game.



...Or another stupid Eastern Front game. How can people not be sick of that front. It's been done over and over by multiple publishers since the birth of PC gaming in 1978 at which I was present and have been playing since.

NO MORE EAST FRONT! How about Italy, or the Pacific, Southern France - HELL! Even another N. Africa or maybe Korea 50.

But please GOD! No more Eastern front. Give it a freakin' rest!



wodin -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (6/30/2015 11:09:35 AM)

Never get sick of the east front..aslong as the game brings something new how can you..if you went with that kind of philosophy no more wargames would be made by now.



Werewolf13 -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (6/30/2015 5:52:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Never get sick of the east front.. as long as the game brings something new how can you..if you went with that kind of philosophy no more wargames would be made by now.


New...
That's the problem. It's all been done before. Only so many ways you can treat it.

Ah well...
Each to his own. We're all different. Imagine how boring the world would be if we were all the same.

[sm=00000436.gif]



Zipuli -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (6/30/2015 5:53:52 PM)

Brilliant news! If only the other good things from my youth would make a comeback ;)



wodin -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (6/30/2015 6:07:00 PM)

Well I have several different wargame design ideas floating around my head that are totally unique. SO I don't think it's all been done before at all..infact innovation in digital wargames has barely moved on from boardgames. Infact I think digital wargames have been hindered by boardgames.

it's all about thinking outside the box and designing a wargame without what's gone before influencing you. It's barely happened.




Jeffrey H. -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (6/30/2015 6:39:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Werewolf1326

quote:


Seriously, if it goes that route, I will wait until the "platinum edition" goes on sale for $5, and let the others pay $100 for another stupid Bulge game.



...Or another stupid Eastern Front game. How can people not be sick of that front. It's been done over and over by multiple publishers since the birth of PC gaming in 1978 at which I was present and have been playing since.

NO MORE EAST FRONT! How about Italy, or the Pacific, Southern France - HELL! Even another N. Africa or maybe Korea 50.

But please GOD! No more Eastern front. Give it a freakin' rest!



or... how about a Steel Tigers WW One ! <gasp>





wodin -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (6/30/2015 8:30:38 PM)

Hurrah!!

Good news. I was a little concerned once I read about the engine.

Going back to the East front and all been done one game in development Decisive Campaigns 3 is bringing some major new features\mechanics which are a breath of fresh air and will bring a whole new Eats front wargame experience to our screens..so as I said it's all about innovation or lack of it that makes a War or Theatre stale\boring.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Just to put to rest one rumor - Steel Tigers is _not_ going to be "watered down". [8D]




Alchenar -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (6/30/2015 9:42:56 PM)

The thing is if you want a tactical level game where the sides are remotely equivalent in strength and we have historical data to use as a basis - WW2 is the most recent option.

Same deal for large scale operational or strategic level games.

But there is an enormous amount of uncharted territory within WW2 - for example I've just finished up Viscount Slim's autobiography and I'd love to see a game that focused tightly on the Burma-India campaigns from 42 to 45 and the unique nature of that theatre.


e: I really want to love AGEOD for the incredible breadth of periods they cover with their games and I think it's great that they do that, but the sheer terribleness of their engine makes it impossible to recommend them to anyone.



marcpennington -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (6/30/2015 9:49:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alchenar


But there is an enormous amount of uncharted territory within WW2 - for example I've just finished up Viscount Slim's autobiography and I'd love to see a game that focused tightly on the Burma-India campaigns from 42 to 45 and the unique nature of that theatre.




I believe Frank Hunter is working on one for the CBI theater. If Piercing Fortress Europa is any indication of its quality, I'm really looking forward to it. My grandfather served there, so always been wanting a good operational level coverage of it.



hellfish6 -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (7/2/2015 4:00:10 PM)

I suppose I'll be the one asking for a 1940 France game/DLC/expansion?



Alchenar -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (7/2/2015 8:29:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hellfish6

I suppose I'll be the one asking for a 1940 France game/DLC/expansion?


Decisive Campaigns does everything you want on an operational level and that campaign just isn't very exciting from a tactical perspective (from the sense that a wargame that tries to manage all the reasons why French formations collapse in the face of German ones despite having numbers and decent equipment ends up not being very fun at all).



JEB Davis -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (7/3/2015 3:01:47 AM)

Why all the talk about "this theatre" or "that theatre"?

SP:WaW is not theatre specific.

Why would we want a successor that is anything less?



Zap -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (7/3/2015 3:16:53 AM)

+1 All theaters in one package equal to comprehensive SPWAW



Kuokkanen -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (7/3/2015 3:54:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JEB Davis

Why all the talk about "this theatre" or "that theatre"?

SP:WaW is not theatre specific.

Why would we want a successor that is anything less?

Did SPWAW have campaigns for every theatre since its first release?



marcpennington -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (7/3/2015 4:10:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

quote:

ORIGINAL: JEB Davis

Why all the talk about "this theatre" or "that theatre"?

SP:WaW is not theatre specific.

Why would we want a successor that is anything less?

Did SPWAW have campaigns for every theatre since its first release?


I mean yeah. More than anything, I want to see this game in my lifetime. Initially I'd much rather have them do a theatre exremely well (cough, Eastern Front 41-45, cough), than try and cover way too much at first go.

Which is not to say that it won't grow to cover every other theater eventually, or to expand back to Steel Tiger WW1.

But more than anything else, I want the game. Soon.



wodin -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (7/3/2015 4:21:54 AM)

I too would prefer quality over quantity.



aaatoysandmore -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (7/3/2015 8:57:21 AM)

Not me I want the same game with better graphics and to work on most computers past, present and future. Forget eastern front I want island hopping Pacific. [:D]



Capitaine -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (7/3/2015 12:22:11 PM)

Expecting the same scope of game as SP is both unrealistic and unwise. I actually *don't* want it all-encompassing. Focus on getting one campaign or front down thoroughly. That's a large enough task as it is. I wouldn't even expect the same scope from a remake of an Age of Rifles game. Those old timey "wargame construction sets" are neither feasible nor attractive to me.



Riitaoja -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (7/3/2015 12:54:51 PM)

SPWAW had all it's campaigns done for free by fans over the years. Initial release of SPWAW v.1.0 had just the campaign & battle generator and a few scenarios. But once the fans started creating new campaigns and scenarios the amount of content increased rapidly. We now have probably 1000 scenarios and 50 campaigns for SPWAW but they are all fan creations AFAIK...

The Mega Campaigns were a separate entitity that became available in SPWAW version 5.0 and higher and had to be purchased. There were 4 mega campaigns in total for SPWAW.

As for the commercial Steel Panthers games released by SSI it went roughly something like this (from my memory):

Steel Panthers 1 released in 1995 had 5 campaings and 50 scenarios. WW2 only.
Steel Panthers 2 released in 1996 had 5 campaings and 50 scenarios. post ww2 only.
Steel Panthers 3 released in 1997 had 10 campaings and 100 scnearios. WW2 and post ww2.


If the new game comes with a scenario editor and perhaps a campaing editor too and if they are as easy to use as with the previous games then fan created content will surely follow.

So the base game could have just a few playable scenarios and a random battle / campaign generator and it would do fine. The important thing is that it has oobs for multiple nations and time periods and terrain for summer, winter, desert and jungle maps. This way the users can make any campaigns / scenarios they want.



Zap -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (7/3/2015 5:02:19 PM)

Thanks for that history of the game. Then the only way to get all theaters is an update. with the designers of scenarios then updating their scenarios.



hellfish6 -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (7/3/2015 5:44:30 PM)

I don't expect ST to come with as many theaters/campaigns as the original, because from what I see of the wargaming market, that's uneconomical (the same reason the new Combat Mission games aren't as comprehensive as the old ones).

Of course, I want all theaters - I just don't realistically expect to get them.

My #1 priority for inclusion is the dynamic campaign feature.



hellfish6 -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (7/3/2015 5:45:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Not me I want the same game with better graphics and to work on most computers past, present and future. Forget eastern front I want island hopping Pacific. [:D]


And you want it all for $20, I'm sure.



JEB Davis -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (7/4/2015 6:51:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Matti Kuokkanen

quote:

ORIGINAL: JEB Davis

Why all the talk about "this theatre" or "that theatre"?

SP:WaW is not theatre specific.

Why would we want a successor that is anything less?

Did SPWAW have campaigns for every theatre since its first release?

I should be more clear... I was not suggesting pre-made campaigns for every theatre should be included with the game. As mentioned above, users have created most of the campaigns & scenarios.

What I was meaning is that all of the nations & their OOBs should be included in the game from the start. This allows all the probably 2000 scenarios & 50 campaigns of existing work to be updated to the new game.

This way the game would not limit us and force us to wait & buy add-ons to play more nations. The current game has 27 nation slots. I would want even more actually.

[:)]



aaatoysandmore -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (7/4/2015 7:20:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zipuli

Brilliant news! If only the other good things from my youth would make a comeback ;)


Yeah, like OUR youth. [:'(]



aaatoysandmore -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (7/4/2015 7:22:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hellfish6


quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

Not me I want the same game with better graphics and to work on most computers past, present and future. Forget eastern front I want island hopping Pacific. [:D]




And you want it all for $20, I'm sure.


Certoinlee (as curly joe would say)[:D]



Fred98 -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (7/5/2015 12:02:23 PM)

I only play wargames by PBEM

The last wargame I really enjoyed was released in early 2011 and the last PBEM was in early 2014.

If Steel Tigers is good I forsee a lot of people paying PBEM games! And I can return to wargaming :)








Jeffrey H. -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (7/5/2015 6:42:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Riitaoja


Steel Panthers 1 released in 1995 had 5 campaings and 50 scenarios. WW2 only.

If the new game comes with a scenario editor and perhaps a campaing editor too and if they are as easy to use as with the previous games then fan created content will surely follow.

So the base game could have just a few playable scenarios and a random battle / campaign generator and it would do fine. The important thing is that it has oobs for multiple nations and time periods and terrain for summer, winter, desert and jungle maps. This way the users can make any campaigns / scenarios they want.



Also included in the original SP 1 was a random map/battle generator and a scenario editor with a points based system similar to the old AH Squad Leader board game.

*I think* Or is my memory failing me ?





Riitaoja -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (7/6/2015 6:00:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

Also included in the original SP 1 was a random map/battle generator and a scenario editor with a points based system similar to the old AH Squad Leader board game.

*I think* Or is my memory failing me ?


That is correct.

Here is a screenshot of how the battle setup screen looked like in Steel Panthers I. Notice that there are only 16 nations available for play. SPWAW did expand the playable nations to 27 but I think many of those are not played often.
[image]http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/59743-steel-panthers-dos-screenshot-scenario-editor.gif[/image]



aaatoysandmore -> RE: 2by3 to publish Steel Tigers (7/6/2015 11:43:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Riitaoja


Steel Panthers 1 released in 1995 had 5 campaings and 50 scenarios. WW2 only.

If the new game comes with a scenario editor and perhaps a campaing editor too and if they are as easy to use as with the previous games then fan created content will surely follow.

So the base game could have just a few playable scenarios and a random battle / campaign generator and it would do fine. The important thing is that it has oobs for multiple nations and time periods and terrain for summer, winter, desert and jungle maps. This way the users can make any campaigns / scenarios they want.



Also included in the original SP 1 was a random map/battle generator and a scenario editor with a points based system similar to the old AH Squad Leader board game.

*I think* Or is my memory failing me ?





Yes, and at least THIS should be in the base game of any new Steel Panthers wanna be or spiritual successor. I might can deal with DLC of nations and such as long as the 'base' game remains the same. I want randomized everything, scenario's and campaign's. I still want it all in one package but even I can break a little if I get the main portion of the game the same. [:'(]

I only ever really played the US vs Japs as there just aren't enough land based US vs Japs games. I'd really like a good tactical game of it and not John Tillers toy game Rising Sun Gold. I like what HPS did in the Pacific with squad battles of the Pacific War. But, they still didn't make a Guadacanal campaign game of it like Steel Panthers can.



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