quote:

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

But remember, breeching the Dnper AGS turn 3-5 leaves the Pz with no infantry support; even more so in your case with so many AGS pockets to reduce. Kiev is a disaster for the Soviets, but remember coordination, coordination. What a start against the best overall WITE player, IMO>

quote:

ORIGINAL: Callistrid

VL is more important then Kiev is.
VL is close to the german supply lines, and, with the baltic rail repair rules, threat more Leningrad and Moskov, then Kiev threat D-town, and Kharkov.

Crossing the Dnyepr arounk Kiev is not a real threat, because the german is far from his logistical lines, and from important industrial centers.

In sappers side, the soviets must fall back from the center region, because if the german troops will slowly encircle the huge area, the soviets can't evacute those troops.

with +1, the soviet must concentrate his forces close together, in a stablie front lines, and defend key locations, like Moscow, and southern area.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mattp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Callistrid

VL is more important then Kiev is.
VL is close to the german supply lines, and, with the baltic rail repair rules, threat more Leningrad and Moskov, then Kiev threat D-town, and Kharkov.

Crossing the Dnyepr arounk Kiev is not a real threat, because the german is far from his logistical lines, and from important industrial centers.

In sappers side, the soviets must fall back from the center region, because if the german troops will slowly encircle the huge area, the soviets can't evacute those troops.

with +1, the soviet must concentrate his forces close together, in a stablie front lines, and defend key locations, like Moscow, and southern area.

I would agree in general with this, but not on Turn 2. Normally GHC breaks PSKOV line on Turn 2, this really isn't much different than that (it is, but not SO much). GHC never breaks the Dnepr in the south on Turn 2. In my experience, SHC voluntarily gives up Kiev around Turn 4-6 when GHC breaks the Dnepr further southeast. So way ahead of schedule in the south and if this was my game I would be more concerned about that right now. Even with very low movement, the Panzers will continue to flip hexes allowing the infantry to press east every turn. I guess we'll see how the next few turns play out, maybe I'm wrong and you're right...

quote:

ly GHC breaks PSKOV line on Turn 2, this really isn't much different than that (it is, but not SO much). GHC never breaks the Dnepr in the south on Turn 2. In my experience, SHC voluntarily gives up Kiev around Turn 4-6 when GHC breaks the Dnepr further southeast. So

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Mattp, forget the common strategy. With 50 % transport rate won't work. The german can break the Kiev line, because it's the only side, where its possible to reach on T02.

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Mattp, forget the common strategy. With 50 % transport rate won't work. The german can break the Kiev line, because it's the only side, where its possible to reach on T02.

quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

I disagree on 50% transportation levels.....against a skilled German player the Soviets will lose far more industry than historical. If both players play a solid game you should end up with at least close to 1942 campaign start industry as the soviets at 50% transportation I highly doubt u will have that much left.

AS its is the soviets have to write off Minsk/Mogilev and everything pretty much in front of the D-Z area. That already drops you very close to historical industry losses right there. Any other major losses after that and you are doing worse than historical in industry.

Maybe .05 will slow the German advance so much it wont be an issue but not having play .05 yet not going to say 50% transportation is needed for a balanced game. In fact so far me and Pelton are having a very close to historical match with .03/.04, I did feel the German logistics were maybe abit to generous but if .05 has just a slight nerf to that I can imagine two players that understand strategy and tactics should have a roughly even match up short of major mistakes.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mattp

I don't think the house rules necessarily slow down the German advance.

Relative to air drops, German Air Supply must originate from within 5 MP of a railhead, so the transport planes sort of have to stay behind in any case. Not moving them until after they've dropped supplies is no big deal and not moving panzers after they've received drops, which usually happens at the end of a turn in any case, is not too much a problem. HQ Buildup at 20 (instead of 25) is really not that important either as I'm sure you've worked out the first few turns and after the first few turns, it tends to matter less as the rail heads get closer to the front. So really I don't accept the premise that your house rules are going to slow the GHC very much. Perhaps a small amount, but not nearly as much as the lack of Soviet Transport is going to hurt them, particularly in the first two turns when they need all of that capacity to move units. I know for me personally, on Turn 1 and Turn 2 I use every single point of rail capacity positioning my units where I need them, so I see a serious imbalance in the house rules particularly over the first 2-3 turns if they include Rail Capacity at 50%.

I think the house rules give the illusion of slowing the Germans down but really hurt the SHC much more in the early game. There is no denying of course that the house rules with +1 and normal blizzard are going to blatantly favor the SHC. But they have to survive in order to reap those benefits.... I guess we'll see as so far I haven't seen a game played with your opening past the first few turns. So it will be interesting to see how it does play out, so please do continue to post AAR updates as time permits.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mattp


I think your opening is great, I've said so in this thread and referenced it in others. It's probably the most brutally efficient I personally have ever seen. Your panzers would most probably have to stop on Turn 3 even with more fuel as you've pushed so far east so fast that you really have to wait for infantry support. It's only T 1.5 according to the AAR, so it's very early to tell what impact in the long term the house rules would make, but you are doing about as well as a German can be on Turn 1.5. Each player plays a bit differently and even you have said that you feel SHC has made mistakes on Turn 1, so who knows if your success is due simply to your playing well (which you obviously are), or due to SHC Lack of capacity, or maybe SHC playing too quickly as you have suggested (or a combination of all 3). So when I reference capacity as a house rule which hurts the SHC, it is referenced to my own play style where I depend on the capacity to fight the campaign I want to fight. For other players who perhaps choose a more fall back strategy, or who are just better players, maybe it's not a problem, I really have no idea.

If you don't feel like continuing the AAR, by all means that your choice. I for one am very curious about it obviously particularly how a strong SHC player responds to it and where it leads to over 10+ turns, but c'est la vie. Thanks for taking the time to post the turns you did post.