RE: Manila Falls (Full Version)

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Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/12/2016 9:09:32 PM)

Jocke will probably post about this fight tomorrow, so a little more information from the end of the fight that may help you guys in assessing the damage of different guns.

Both the Boise and the Phoenix took 1 40 cm hit penetrating the belt armor.

In the first fight, the distribution of 8" and 20cm hits is described below.

[image]local://upfiles/44178/0756DA40C225478FAC072FA3A7CF4376.jpg[/image]

That is tower armor penetrating hits.

The 40cm guns have an effect 10x greater than the 8" guns. The 20cm is a little stronger than the 8".



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/13/2016 2:26:01 AM)

I just got done manually adding planes to the reserves on the first Tojo IIb squadron to reach Pearl Harbor. To be able to add 12 planes, I had to break it down into thirds, add 4 planes to each third, and then rebuild.[X(]

This will really slow the replacement of lost planes.

Two more Tojo IIb squadrons are on approach to Pearl.

My best squadron of A6M5s, with the best naval pilots, are now at Coal Harbor along with a Tojo IIa squadron. I am hoping that Jocke sweeps there again, but he may start night bombing or look for a surface bombardment.

I have 3 Oscar IIb squadrons to move to the West Coast, and I am rapidly running out of fighter squadrons. I really need my two Tony squadrons to become active, but making the plane has been slow, since I started this month from scratch and have only made 10 month to date. Since the squadrons withdraw, I need to replace the entire squadron (or 1/3) at once -- so for now they are still flying Nates.

There is something screwy with this game as the Allies still have the Boise, the Prince of Wales and the Repulse. On the positive side 2 out of 3 Allied SSTs are sunk. Small consolation.




Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/13/2016 2:43:25 PM)

In both fights yesterday, with decent weather and visibility the Allies surprised both my task forces.

Against the cruiser force they missed, and against the Mutsu they bounced I think three shells off her.

I did manage to get off at least one torpedo against an enemy cruiser.




witpqs -> RE: Manila Falls (4/13/2016 3:26:35 PM)

I really do not understand the bit about an air group needing to be divided to get replacements. Bug??



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/13/2016 3:29:38 PM)

Sent the turn to Jocke, I am thinking I will see some good activity there for the day.[;)]

I decided to be somewhat risky in the New Hebrides, doing another thing I normally never do. More later.

I really increased search between New Hebrides and Noumea, and have three Iboats patrolling the deep water there. Hopefully we can get an attack on one of those damaged ships.

Deliberate attacks at Sian, and the roadblock near Kienko. 4 Divisions moving on Chengtu, one already there. Supply has to be shot in China and I am bombing Chungking's airport daily.




Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/13/2016 3:31:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I really do not understand the bit about an air group needing to be divided to get replacements. Bug??


We upgraded to the latest patch, and there is a one line blurb in the change log, and since then I can only put 4 planes in per squadron (or squadron fraction) drawing planes manually from the pools.

I think it works as designed, and is an attempt to slow the air war down more. I told Jocke about it the first time I noticed it, and he hasn't mentioned it, so I think it is in effect for both sides.



Andav -> RE: Manila Falls (4/13/2016 4:07:54 PM)

You are talking about adding planes here right?

This is the patch note: Fix issue with getting reserve planes from pool; reserves can only draw up to their limit

Wa

[image]local://upfiles/24959/6D41B8E0B1594E23A8748D6492BD138F.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/13/2016 4:10:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andav

You are talking about adding planes here right?

This is the patch note: Fix issue with getting reserve planes from pool; reserves can only draw up to their limit

Wa

[image]local://upfiles/24959/6D41B8E0B1594E23A8748D6492BD138F.jpg[/image]


Correct. I will take a picture with the next turn. Should only be a few hours.



witpqs -> RE: Manila Falls (4/13/2016 4:16:11 PM)

I recall the limit for that button only ever being 4 planes. For example, if the squadron is 16 planes, you can also add up to 4 in reserve. But I think that 4 also counted against the 12 planes per week limit.

We upgraded to the latest patch about a week ago and have several turns in. I haven't had any problems getting replacements. I have not used the Reserve button during that time.



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/13/2016 4:20:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I recall the limit for that button only ever being 4 planes. For example, if the squadron is 16 planes, you can also add up to 4 in reserve. But I think that 4 also counted against the 12 planes per week limit.

We upgraded to the latest patch about a week ago and have several turns in. I haven't had any problems getting replacements. I have not used the Reserve button during that time.


Operator error?[:)] I used to be able to break the squadron into thirds and add 36 planes in one week.[X(] Am I gamey or what?



witpqs -> RE: Manila Falls (4/13/2016 5:05:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I recall the limit for that button only ever being 4 planes. For example, if the squadron is 16 planes, you can also add up to 4 in reserve. But I think that 4 also counted against the 12 planes per week limit.

We upgraded to the latest patch about a week ago and have several turns in. I haven't had any problems getting replacements. I have not used the Reserve button during that time.


Operator error?[:)] I used to be able to break the squadron into thirds and add 36 planes in one week.[X(] Am I gamey or what?

If that worked it was a loophole! The only squadrons I break down are recon units (or F/FB types that are actually recon), and they are 2 to 6 planes when broken down, usually 4 or 5. Adding so many planes is never an issue.



Lokasenna -> RE: Manila Falls (4/13/2016 5:07:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I recall the limit for that button only ever being 4 planes. For example, if the squadron is 16 planes, you can also add up to 4 in reserve. But I think that 4 also counted against the 12 planes per week limit.

We upgraded to the latest patch about a week ago and have several turns in. I haven't had any problems getting replacements. I have not used the Reserve button during that time.


This is correct.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I recall the limit for that button only ever being 4 planes. For example, if the squadron is 16 planes, you can also add up to 4 in reserve. But I think that 4 also counted against the 12 planes per week limit.

We upgraded to the latest patch about a week ago and have several turns in. I haven't had any problems getting replacements. I have not used the Reserve button during that time.


Operator error?[:)] I used to be able to break the squadron into thirds and add 36 planes in one week.[X(] Am I gamey or what?


Oh, was this changed? Not a huge deal if so, but it would change some things. In some cases, I am using split squadrons basically as their own squadrons. Not splitting a gutted squadron to add 12 planes 3 different times and then recombine.



witpqs -> RE: Manila Falls (4/13/2016 5:10:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I recall the limit for that button only ever being 4 planes. For example, if the squadron is 16 planes, you can also add up to 4 in reserve. But I think that 4 also counted against the 12 planes per week limit.

We upgraded to the latest patch about a week ago and have several turns in. I haven't had any problems getting replacements. I have not used the Reserve button during that time.


This is correct.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I recall the limit for that button only ever being 4 planes. For example, if the squadron is 16 planes, you can also add up to 4 in reserve. But I think that 4 also counted against the 12 planes per week limit.

We upgraded to the latest patch about a week ago and have several turns in. I haven't had any problems getting replacements. I have not used the Reserve button during that time.


Operator error?[:)] I used to be able to break the squadron into thirds and add 36 planes in one week.[X(] Am I gamey or what?


Oh, was this changed? Not a huge deal if so, but it would change some things. In some cases, I am using split squadrons basically as their own squadrons. Not splitting a gutted squadron to add 12 planes 3 different times and then recombine.

Is this coming out of the technique where a squadron gets re-sized to (guessing) 60 or 70 planes? If that's what you guys mean, now I understand. But I still think it was a loophole to allow more than 12 per week for the whole squadron, because allowing 12 per slice (/A/B/C) basically allows you to make new squadrons.



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/13/2016 8:54:53 PM)

Last day of October, 1942

Our Iboats miss. One damaged CL is obviously in port, at least according to recon.

Allied sub sinks a 6vp small xak off Honshu on the surface yesterday. No escort. I have to change my ways...



[image]local://upfiles/44178/62DDDEC9E0DB4EA092E0A72EEF8C7878.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/13/2016 8:56:13 PM)

Here is a little Sally goodness. I thought these were ACM tenders, but they turn out to be an AM and a subchaser. I will take them.

[image]local://upfiles/44178/273A77CFB48B4063AB60F1E3FDFE1FD3.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/13/2016 9:08:28 PM)

Adding planes illustrated:

[image]local://upfiles/44178/FA9A67CEA7014CC897CBE1554528E7A8.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/13/2016 9:08:49 PM)

Continued:

[image]local://upfiles/44178/327E8282375745D489925BC596FBCFE2.jpg[/image]



witpqs -> RE: Manila Falls (4/13/2016 9:29:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Continued:

[image]local://upfiles/44178/327E8282375745D489925BC596FBCFE2.jpg[/image]

Reserve was supposed to have a max of 4 planes per squadron. Adding planes was supposed to be a max of 12 planes per week (including any put into reserve). If some of those limits were not working right those were bugs that needed fixing. Good on Michael!



Alfred -> RE: Manila Falls (4/13/2016 9:36:08 PM)

That has never been the correct way to get replacement airframes into an air unit.  It was quite correctly squashed by michaelm.

The correct way has always been to use the buttons next to the "Draw one Aircraft from Pools (49)".  Doing so you can get up to 12 replacement airframes into the unit with a single click.

Drawing replacement airframes in via the "In Reserve" button is only done when the unit is already at it's TOE.  When combining your sub-groups the excess reserves are automatically moved into the unit proper.  In the example you posted you end up with no reserves, so you haven't accomplished anything other than increased considerably the number of clicks (reserves are added in singly) and your micromanagement.

If adding reserves to sub-groups at TOE and then combining, that would be a cheat if it doesn't cause a problem with the code having a full TOE with 12 reserves as well.

Alfred 



Lokasenna -> RE: Manila Falls (4/13/2016 9:44:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

That has never been the correct way to get replacement airframes into an air unit.  It was quite correctly squashed by michaelm.

The correct way has always been to use the buttons next to the "Draw one Aircraft from Pools (49)".  Doing so you can get up to 12 replacement airframes into the unit with a single click.

Drawing replacement airframes in via the "In Reserve" button is only done when the unit is already at it's TOE.  When combining your sub-groups the excess reserves are automatically moved into the unit proper.  In the example you posted you end up with no reserves, so you haven't accomplished anything other than increased considerably the number of clicks (reserves are added in singly) and your micromanagement.

If adding reserves to sub-groups at TOE and then combining, that would be a cheat if it doesn't cause a problem with the code having a full TOE with 12 reserves as well.

Alfred 


To my knowledge, this is possible, but because the unit would then have more reserve planes than it should, they will get placed back into the plane pools over the next several days. This happens, for example, when the USN DB groups resize in 1945 from 32 to 15 - I ended up with 18 planes in reserve for most squadrons, which eventually was reduced (by the game engine) to whatever the max was for the carrier to still conduct flight ops (the resizes at this date result in air groups of 36+36+15+15 = 92, so already over the max for an Essex...).



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/13/2016 10:54:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

That has never been the correct way to get replacement airframes into an air unit.  It was quite correctly squashed by michaelm.

The correct way has always been to use the buttons next to the "Draw one Aircraft from Pools (49)".  Doing so you can get up to 12 replacement airframes into the unit with a single click.

Drawing replacement airframes in via the "In Reserve" button is only done when the unit is already at it's TOE.  When combining your sub-groups the excess reserves are automatically moved into the unit proper.  In the example you posted you end up with no reserves, so you haven't accomplished anything other than increased considerably the number of clicks (reserves are added in singly) and your micromanagement.

If adding reserves to sub-groups at TOE and then combining, that would be a cheat if it doesn't cause a problem with the code having a full TOE with 12 reserves as well.

Alfred 


Thanks, I think I got into the habit of using the reserve button from somebodies AAR years ago, and I believe I have done it that way forever.

In my defense, I don't resize carrier groups nor do I use the upgrade/downgrade to replace frames.





Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/14/2016 3:30:41 AM)

Got the Agano. If I recall correctly she starts with Radar in Stock I think.

Anyhow, sending her on a shakedown cruise to Port Arthur and back for fun.



[image]local://upfiles/44178/D6231DD6D2A540B6981886DB9FAC001E.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/14/2016 3:33:03 AM)

The Allies are laying a quiet siege to Chittagong.

I have been bombing Paoshan for a while, but they are a tough nut to crack. Repulsed a deliberate attack again just recently.



[image]local://upfiles/44178/23995DEB23064B559EC28069611E9EEF.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/14/2016 3:35:03 AM)

Upgraded the first unit to Tonys'.

I also withdrew an Oscar IIb squadron from Burma and I am sending it to Rabaul area.



[image]local://upfiles/44178/1A1D5C49E5A942C18C2465E4F3BD24C2.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/14/2016 3:40:24 AM)

A pretty stiff defense here at Coal Harbor.

The nasty Allied light cruiser force is south at Tillamook. I don't like it all, as Coal harbor is protected by light cruisers and destroyers. Might have to do something about that, actually I did, but it will take 2-3 days and that might be too late.



[image]local://upfiles/44178/9E888A06CF584463ACDB8DFE9FF93B6E.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/14/2016 3:50:11 AM)

The New Hebrides.

I am going back in again today. First off will be two very little destroyers with a less than aggressive, but skillful, Captain in charge. I am hoping that the Allies won't have been able to recharge their torpedoes, but these guys will be insurance.

Then I am sending in a powerful cruiser force. I think Jocke will have spotted only one cruiser, and not the full force I am sending in.

I flew 24 more Zeroes in to bolster the CAP over the task forces, and you can see my day and night time search here, plus whatever the cruisers launch.

I also have 2 large groups of planes flying 360 degree naval search and one flying ASW that doesn't show up on the arcs.

None of my leaders are hell bent for leather, so to speak, and there is a pesky submarine lurking on the eastern approaches, so I will approach from the west.

I think there is a good chance I hit the tankers, as they just showed up there today, although he disbands them into port which is most likely outcome.

But I will be satisfied with a surface engagement as long as he has run out of torpedoes and I haven't.

Here is hoping, after today no more adventures down there I think.

[image]local://upfiles/44178/9E4F5AF230964BB087481C1EADCD369C.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/14/2016 4:04:02 AM)

I think Allied High Command is a little frustrated with the naval battles here in the New Hebrides.

They did surprise us with the strong Heavy Cruiser force, but it is the Boise group that really scares me, as they can eat almost anything up I can send against it.

Luckily, I spotted the Boise group many days ago and have been testing out strategies to use against it. The Mutsu was my first choice, and it worked very well.

Sending in 4 heavy cruisers resulted in a very mild skirmish a week or so ago.

So far I have been able to manipulate the naval engine, and all my surface groups have withdrawn from battle relatively early, and then returned to port rather than seeking more fights. I am pleased with this better understanding of the naval engine.

This night however, I am sending in forces that might seek a second battle which I am hoping will be against some soft targets.



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/14/2016 4:07:56 AM)

I am probably four to five days away from launching the Oz diversion with Strike Force Akagi and friends. The Allies have put Mornington and Horn under recon, so I have sent my recon planes elsewhere for now.

I am fast transporting some paratroops in, and I have used the waypoint deception to mask their final destination I hope. Since I just did it this turn, there was two turns will Jocke might have gotten sigint on their destination.

I don't think he can do much to stop me here, as I doubt he knows what I am doing. No doubt there might be some howling in a week or so.[:)]

[image]local://upfiles/44178/B478D0CF9DCF493B8CE0CF121340A84C.jpg[/image]



Lokasenna -> RE: Manila Falls (4/14/2016 4:49:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I recall the limit for that button only ever being 4 planes. For example, if the squadron is 16 planes, you can also add up to 4 in reserve. But I think that 4 also counted against the 12 planes per week limit.

We upgraded to the latest patch about a week ago and have several turns in. I haven't had any problems getting replacements. I have not used the Reserve button during that time.


This is correct.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I recall the limit for that button only ever being 4 planes. For example, if the squadron is 16 planes, you can also add up to 4 in reserve. But I think that 4 also counted against the 12 planes per week limit.

We upgraded to the latest patch about a week ago and have several turns in. I haven't had any problems getting replacements. I have not used the Reserve button during that time.


Operator error?[:)] I used to be able to break the squadron into thirds and add 36 planes in one week.[X(] Am I gamey or what?


Oh, was this changed? Not a huge deal if so, but it would change some things. In some cases, I am using split squadrons basically as their own squadrons. Not splitting a gutted squadron to add 12 planes 3 different times and then recombine.

Is this coming out of the technique where a squadron gets re-sized to (guessing) 60 or 70 planes? If that's what you guys mean, now I understand. But I still think it was a loophole to allow more than 12 per week for the whole squadron, because allowing 12 per slice (/A/B/C) basically allows you to make new squadrons.


Eh, maybe somewhat? I'm remembering my split units as 18 planes, so the parent would have to be size 54 for that. But even that's not right, as they should be size 53... so they're probably 18/18/17?

I've also done it with standard 36-plane units on both sides. And then of course there are the cases where there are some squadrons (typically IJ) that arrive or begin the game in splinters. I remember one unit in particular that has different upgrades available for the parent units as for the wings that are broken off. I think it's that the parent unit is in Nicks already, but the 9-plane subunits (still in Manchuria) are in Idas and can't upgrade to Nicks (I think the options are Nate, Ida, and Sonia...seriously). A bit of an annoyance, but whatever.



Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (4/14/2016 1:34:00 PM)

Nov 1, 1942

Judy starts production.[:)] Need to figure out what to do with the D3A2 Val factory -- size 60.

Quiet day. Allies pull south in the New Hebrides.

I have been so focused on saving PP to purchase large units out for the west coast, will be buying out the 1st Division tomorrow, that a lot of lousy leaders are still in place.

Here in China, this HQ is rear area disablement help for example. Well, he will be one hex south of Sian in a day or two and will try to help plan with the attack.[:D]

[image]local://upfiles/44178/D7B3D209F0C54872BC1931BD42760C38.jpg[/image]



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