RE: Manila Falls

RE: Manila Falls (Full Version)

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Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (9/3/2016 1:37:40 PM)
Feb 1, 1943 PM invaded... Another big attack at LA...after two days of aerial bombing. Ground combat at Los Angeles (225,76) Allied Deliberate attack Attacking force 109021 troops, 2056 guns, 4755 vehicles, Assault Value = 3698 Defending force 76272 troops, 1092 guns, 1260 vehicles, Assault Value = 1873 Allied adjusted assault: 2127 Japanese adjusted defense: 5061 Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 Combat modifiers Defender: terrain(+) Attacker: Japanese ground losses: 1929 casualties reported Squads: 5 destroyed, 190 disabled Non Combat: 50 destroyed, 16 disabled Engineers: 2 destroyed, 15 disabled Guns lost 95 (4 destroyed, 91 disabled) Vehicles lost 112 (63 destroyed, 49 disabled) Units destroyed 1 Allied ground losses: 5035 casualties reported Squads: 31 destroyed, 475 disabled Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 67 disabled Engineers: 2 destroyed, 91 disabled Guns lost 151 (8 destroyed, 143 disabled) Vehicles lost 123 (14 destroyed, 109 disabled) Assaulting units: 7th Motorized Division 36th Infantry Division 5th Armoured Division 104th Infantry Division 13th Armoured Division Provisional Tank Brigade 41st Infantry Division 8th Motorized Division 3rd Marine Division LA Harbor Defense 640th Tank Destroyer Battalion 6th Armoured Division 2nd Armored Division 2nd Army Tank Brigade 37th US Naval Construction Battalion 204th Coast AA Regiment 511th Coast AA Regiment 29th USN Special Construction Battalion 21st US Naval Construction Battalion 165th Field Artillery Battalion 183rd Field Artillery Battalion 54th Coastal Artillery Regiment 352nd Construction Regiment I US Corps 503rd Coast AA Regiment 24th MAG 188th Field Artillery Battalion 19th Base Maint Engineer Battalion 603rd Coast AA Regiment Los Angeles USN Base Force 3rd USN Naval Construction Regiment 144th Field Artillery Regiment 181st Field Artillery Battalion 168th Field Artillery Battalion 21st Base Maint Engineer Battalion 214th Coast AA Regiment II USA Corps Defending units: 23rd Tank Regiment 4th Division 16th Division 1st Tank Division 4th Tank Regiment 2nd Tank Division 9th Division 1st Division 6th Guards Division 18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 15th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion 5th RF Gun Battalion 2nd RF Gun Battalion 9th RF Gun Battalion 7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 2nd Hvy.Artillery Regiment 15th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 11th RF Gun Battalion 3rd Air Defense AA Regiment 15th Air Defense AA Regiment 10th RF Gun Battalion 7th Air Defense AA Regiment 8th RF Gun Battalion 1st Air Defense AA Battalion 2nd Air Defense AA Regiment 22nd Fld AA Gun Co 12th Ind.AA Gun Co 9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 3rd Hvy.Artillery Rgt /1

Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (9/3/2016 1:45:56 PM)
Chungking... Ground combat at Chungking (76,45) Japanese Bombardment attack Attacking force 4356 troops, 349 guns, 185 vehicles, Assault Value = 2193 Defending force 167314 troops, 632 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2604 Allied ground losses: 942 casualties reported Squads: 46 destroyed, 22 disabled Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Guns lost 6 (4 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (9/5/2016 1:42:08 PM)
Turn is away, and I suspect there will be some fireworks this day!

DanSez -> RE: Manila Falls (9/9/2016 6:35:36 PM)
Page saving bump and an echo from this reader: Fireworks?

Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (9/10/2016 2:57:05 PM)
I sent the Mutsu and several cruisers and destroyers to intercept the PM landings, but Jocke fled with all his ships... Leaving Mutsu vulnerable to some air attacks.[:(] Morning Air attack on TF, near Port Moresby at 98,130 Weather in hex: Heavy rain Raid detected at 36 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 16 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2-N Rufe x 4 Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 12 Allied aircraft P-38G Lightning x 20 F4F-3 Wildcat x 14 TBF-1 Avenger x 9 Japanese aircraft losses A6M2-N Rufe: 2 destroyed Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 3 destroyed Allied aircraft losses F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed by flak TBF-1 Avenger: 1 damaged TBF-1 Avenger: 1 destroyed by flak Japanese Ships BB Mutsu Aircraft Attacking: 8 x TBF-1 Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet Naval Attack: 1 x 22.4in Mk 13 Torp. CAP engaged: 801 Ku S-1 with A6M2-N Rufe (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling) 4 plane(s) intercepting now. Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000. Raid is overhead 77th Sentai with Ki-43-IIb Oscar (12 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling) 12 plane(s) intercepting now. Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000. Raid is overhead -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Port Moresby at 98,130 Weather in hex: Heavy cloud Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 8 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2-N Rufe x 2 Ki-43-IIb Oscar x 7 Allied aircraft F4F-3 Wildcat x 11 TBF-1 Avenger x 8 Japanese aircraft losses Ki-43-IIb Oscar: 2 destroyed Allied aircraft losses TBF-1 Avenger: 4 damaged Japanese Ships BB Mutsu DD Hatsuzuki Aircraft Attacking: 8 x TBF-1 Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet Naval Attack: 1 x 22.4in Mk 13 Torp. CAP engaged: 801 Ku S-1 with A6M2-N Rufe (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling) 2 plane(s) intercepting now. Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000. Raid is overhead 77th Sentai with Ki-43-IIb Oscar (7 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling) 7 plane(s) intercepting now. Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 0 and 15000. Raid is overhead

Anachro -> RE: Manila Falls (9/10/2016 3:51:33 PM)
Luckily, no hits though.

Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (9/28/2016 6:47:48 PM)
Page 2 shame.[sm=00000117.gif] Anyhow I have let a few days slip by with no updates, and with the conclusion of my other game I can focus on this one. 14 Divisions basically stuck in LA. It seems the Allies have decided to march down out of the mountains and attack in the plains and not in LA anymore, so we are attempting our massive escape. It will need amazing luck as not taking San Diego has thrown a huge monkey wrench into my plans to flee LA. But we will hang tough. The Allies look to be ready to invade either Sumatra or anywhere from Rangoon to the south. Allies marching out from Port Moresby. So, I am in a pickle. A big pickle. A really big pickle. But I am not disheartened, or chagrined. I will fight the Allies with everything I have. But I have made a mess of Olorin's great opening. Truth hurts.[:)][;)]

Grfin Zeppelin -> RE: Manila Falls (9/28/2016 7:34:58 PM)
[sm=00000613.gif]

Capt. Harlock -> RE: Manila Falls (9/29/2016 4:00:04 AM)
quote: 14 Divisions basically stuck in LA. It seems the Allies have decided to march down out of the mountains and attack in the plains and not in LA anymore, so we are attempting our massive escape. It will need amazing luck as not taking San Diego has thrown a huge monkey wrench into my plans to flee LA. But we will hang tough. And if nothing else, you've generated one of the most interesting games yet posted. [sm=happy0065.gif]

Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (9/29/2016 5:33:42 PM)
Feb 9th, 1943 Looks awfully grim....here. 14 Divisions plus support troops, Allies marching around LA to fight in the clear. San Diego heavily fortified with 3 Allied divisions. Can you say deathtrap? [image]local://upfiles/44178/C593B0023B234F0E8DDA0E9459A7214F.jpg[/image]

Drakanel -> RE: Manila Falls (9/29/2016 5:53:55 PM)
I'm not sure I would try to extract them. If you lose other ships, and planes, and pilots... I don't know, I'm not an expert and I almost don't know the japanese OOB, but... can't you just rebuild those divisions? Because you can't rebuild your CVs and other ships...

Lokasenna -> RE: Manila Falls (9/30/2016 12:37:13 AM)
If, on the day of "beachfall" and you're trying to load up... and you can't extract them without getting swarmed by SBDs and TBFs and the like... just leave them. You need your ships more than you need your divisions. They'll almost come back faster if you rebuild them after destruction, too, than if you were to extract about 20 squads and have to rebuild from that because you've got to factor in transit time [:'(]. That said, I do think you should at least try. Leave the naval support squads (assuming you brought them) for last. Pick up your highest-XP divisions first. To that end, I even wouldn't hesitate to drastically underload a TF just to make sure it fully loaded any units I wanted to save in their entirety if I could, while leaving others to die completely.

Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (9/30/2016 2:40:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Drakanel I'm not sure I would try to extract them. If you lose other ships, and planes, and pilots... I don't know, I'm not an expert and I almost don't know the japanese OOB, but... can't you just rebuild those divisions? Because you can't rebuild your CVs and other ships... And a reply to Lok. Lets look at this objectively: 1. 14 Divisions and support troops is a large VP gain.[:(] 2. Rebuilding them is a huge supply drain.[:(] Japan can do it once per game, if you have been frugal with supplies and can protect your industry. 3. Buying back all those units is a huge PP drain.[:(] 4. A destroyed unit will rebuild faster and get teleported back to Honshu and be ready for usage in 1 month. [:'(] 5. This game now has morphed into avoiding a 3-1 victory in 1944. DEI oil is very vulnerable now and for probably the next two months. Burma is vulnerable to being cut off. 6. Japan can afford to lose 200 cargo ships attempting an escape. 7. Flying boats cannot air lift portions of expensive PP units to Canada. 8. The Allies can look to merely surround the troops and never attack them - in effect freezing all those units in LA and south. Then I would be short 14 divisions and their support for all of 1943. A very nasty tactic indeed. This was always the peril...the Allies hold down the bulk of Japans unrestricted Army with restricted troops. For all the above reasons an attempt must be made. Lok is correct.[&o]

Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (9/30/2016 3:25:03 PM)
Making progress at Chungking I might reverse all that progress, as I forgot to take all the units off attack and I am attacking again today. Oops.[X(] Ground combat at Chungking (76,45) Japanese Deliberate attack Attacking force 98210 troops, 1195 guns, 467 vehicles, Assault Value = 2728 Defending force 171991 troops, 581 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2660 Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 4 Japanese adjusted assault: 1482 Allied adjusted defense: 1421 Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 4) Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 4 Combat modifiers Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), preparation(-), supply(-) Attacker: Japanese ground losses: 4974 casualties reported Squads: 28 destroyed, 538 disabled Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 60 disabled Engineers: 1 destroyed, 55 disabled Guns lost 70 (1 destroyed, 69 disabled) Vehicles lost 32 (1 destroyed, 31 disabled) Allied ground losses: 5341 casualties reported Squads: 108 destroyed, 239 disabled Non Combat: 136 destroyed, 130 disabled Engineers: 12 destroyed, 2 disabled Guns lost 13 (6 destroyed, 7 disabled) Units destroyed 5

Lokasenna -> RE: Manila Falls (9/30/2016 4:41:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe 1. 14 Divisions and support troops is a large VP gain.[:(] 6. Japan can afford to lose 200 cargo ships attempting an escape. I disagree. 200 xAKs = minimum 1600 VPs plus the lost shipping capability for later. I think you may only have one run at the coast here to get what you want. A second trip would be lucky for you, and you will need to run them up the coast (probably within view of search planes) to your Canadian bases to have any decent shot at being able to do two evacuation trips. Whatever you do, don't lose your ships. If you really want to save on the PPs for the buying back and just eat the supply bullet, set up a few 1- or 2-ship TFs to pick up a tiny portion of a unit and get out with it. Setting some DDs or APDs to Fast Transport to do this would be the ideal solution as they are less likely to get sunk with the only remaining fragment of the unit onboard.

Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (9/30/2016 6:06:36 PM)
200 is a lot of ships, but there toast anyway and there is more than enough other cargo ships to see me thru 1944. Different outlooks...

Lokasenna -> RE: Manila Falls (9/30/2016 7:34:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe 200 is a lot of ships, but there toast anyway and there is more than enough other cargo ships to see me thru 1944. Maybe if you're planning to lose Sumatra and Malaysia before then [:'(]

jwolf -> RE: Manila Falls (9/30/2016 7:44:06 PM)
quote: 8. The Allies can look to merely surround the troops and never attack them - in effect freezing all those units in LA and south. Then I would be short 14 divisions and their support for all of 1943. A very nasty tactic indeed. This was always the peril...the Allies hold down the bulk of Japans unrestricted Army with restricted troops. That would be nasty, but it also seems like a gamey tactic.

witpqs -> RE: Manila Falls (9/30/2016 7:49:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jwolf quote: 8. The Allies can look to merely surround the troops and never attack them - in effect freezing all those units in LA and south. Then I would be short 14 divisions and their support for all of 1943. A very nasty tactic indeed. This was always the peril...the Allies hold down the bulk of Japans unrestricted Army with restricted troops. That would be nasty, but it also seems like a gamey tactic. But besieging them to starve them, bomb them and weaken them (starving for supplies plus attrition, etc.) before attacking to wipe them out is entirely realistic given how strong a force it is.

jwolf -> RE: Manila Falls (9/30/2016 7:53:13 PM)
Oh sure I agree completely. The US would have to be slow and deliberate about defeating the pocketed Japanese units. It's just the "turn all of S Cal into a POW camp and then sit there" tactic that I would reject.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Manila Falls (9/30/2016 8:24:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jwolf Oh sure I agree completely. The US would have to be slow and deliberate about defeating the pocketed Japanese units. It's just the "turn all of S Cal into a POW camp and then sit there" tactic that I would reject. Japan has the option of attacking unto death.

jwolf -> RE: Manila Falls (9/30/2016 8:49:25 PM)
quote: Japan has the option of attacking unto death. Arrgh, should have thought of that! Fits with the wartime character as well.

Lokasenna -> RE: Manila Falls (10/1/2016 4:31:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jwolf quote: Japan has the option of attacking unto death. Arrgh, should have thought of that! Fits with the wartime character as well. Until they run out of AV, anyway. But then they'll attrit to death.

obvert -> RE: Manila Falls (10/1/2016 9:44:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe 1. 14 Divisions and support troops is a large VP gain.[:(] 6. Japan can afford to lose 200 cargo ships attempting an escape. I disagree. 200 xAKs = minimum 1600 VPs plus the lost shipping capability for later. I think you may only have one run at the coast here to get what you want. A second trip would be lucky for you, and you will need to run them up the coast (probably within view of search planes) to your Canadian bases to have any decent shot at being able to do two evacuation trips. Whatever you do, don't lose your ships. If you really want to save on the PPs for the buying back and just eat the supply bullet, set up a few 1- or 2-ship TFs to pick up a tiny portion of a unit and get out with it. Setting some DDs or APDs to Fast Transport to do this would be the ideal solution as they are less likely to get sunk with the only remaining fragment of the unit onboard. I am just catching up, but I tend to agree with this about losing the xAK/xAP. It's not so much the capacity, but the VPs. That's a lot, and there are other factors like the experience gain of ship crews and pilots that do the killing for the Allies that just make them tougher as you go on.

Olorin -> RE: Manila Falls (10/1/2016 12:14:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe 8. The Allies can look to merely surround the troops and never attack them - in effect freezing all those units in LA and south. Then I would be short 14 divisions and their support for all of 1943. A very nasty tactic indeed. This was always the peril...the Allies hold down the bulk of Japans unrestricted Army with restricted troops. You could make a series of shock attacks in the spirit of "BANZAI!" and have them back in Honshu in two months. [:D]

Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (10/1/2016 3:44:52 PM)
Feb 9 1943 Bombing Chungking...they need to do well since I have another deliberate attack coming in with no rest between attacks.[X(] Meanwhile the fleets approach LA area and suffer four or five sub attacks...but they all miss. Will the air attacks follow. [image]local://upfiles/44178/AFB52CEB56A94CAFB9DDA1E7E13FB9F4.jpg[/image]

Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (10/1/2016 3:51:47 PM)
I see you![;)] [image]local://upfiles/44178/5344A0EDB6434DABA6857ADC8D3C62F7.jpg[/image]

Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (10/1/2016 3:56:59 PM)
Unfortunately, one of my fleets moves too close to LA and is savaged by Allied planes. Oops. The attack at Chungking doesn't do too badly, other than missing to lower forts. [image]local://upfiles/44178/B01C523013E941AE8EC1335B1DA01B89.jpg[/image]

Lowpe -> RE: Manila Falls (10/4/2016 12:35:56 AM)
Blew a head mainfold gasket on a car the other day, and my brother (of the gamma knife operation a little ways back) had a heart event while he was sleeping. The monitor caught it, promptly hospitalized, and will get a Pacemaker tomorrow morning. He has a 3rd degree AV block of a lower heart chamber. I have the turn, but haven't really started it yet.[:(]

Lokasenna -> RE: Manila Falls (10/4/2016 12:47:44 AM)
Oh, and here I was going to chastise you for losing good ships I told you not to lose. Now I feel guilty. Hope your brother pulls through. As for the car, sounds like a good "you go fix it, son" opportunity. If only...

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