The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (Full Version)

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STEF78 -> The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/14/2015 6:26:00 PM)

I'm addicted to WITE and this will be my 5th AAR. My second as russian.

Settings: mild blizzard, +1 soviet, random weather, server game, full FOW, locked HQ...

German opening was quite traditional with a strong reinforcement of the South.

Before the mud season, frontline was as shown below.

Key points:
- Leningrad is about to fall...
- 821bobo lost a Pzd which proved to be too agressive north of Moscow
- he advanced up to Tula but then moved to the South to gain ground.
- Sevastopol still resists

The arrows show the main moves of the PzG's

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/969069bobo17.jpg[/img]



STEF78 -> The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/14/2015 6:28:26 PM)

821bobo wasn't very focused on encirclements (or I was enough cautious...)

So my losses are relatively low

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/263231bobo17losses.jpg[/img]



swkuh -> RE: The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/14/2015 7:42:53 PM)

Thanks Stef 78 +Bobo for your AAR. Will follow.



loki100 -> RE: The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/14/2015 10:01:26 PM)

interesting situation, what is your industry like? If you have lots of arms pts and HI he is going to be in real trouble by 1943?



charlie0311 -> RE: The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/14/2015 10:42:58 PM)

Can't bear to watch, fear the mighty Bobo821. But I will..:)



schascha -> RE: The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/15/2015 5:33:04 AM)

Salut Stef,

Content de suivre un nouvel AAR de ta plume.

Bonne chance, ca a l'air bien parti!!!



Peltonx -> RE: The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/15/2015 11:21:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78

821bobo wasn't very focused on encirclements (or I was enough cautious...)

So my losses are relatively low

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/263231bobo17losses.jpg[/img]


Wow very low loses vs historical, you should be around 7.5 million by June 42.

Hes going to have a hard time cracking your lines.

+1 will also make for a hard winter for him.



821Bobo -> RE: The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/16/2015 8:46:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78

German opening was quite traditional with a strong reinforcement of the South.



This is not true. From the original dispositions I have moved only GD regiment to the south.

quote:


821bobo wasn't very focused on encirclements (or I was enough cautious...)


I was not able to create any bigger pocket. You have been very good in retreating with good timing. [:(]



821Bobo -> RE: The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/16/2015 8:50:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Wow very low loses vs historical, you should be around 7.5 million by June 42.

Hes going to have a hard time cracking your lines.

+1 will also make for a hard winter for him.



Well you are right. To my defense I must say that I have lost around 200 morale points due to the morale bug. It really hurts when your 90+ inf divisions suddenly have 75 morale. Also the mud have stopped me for 2-3 turns.



chaos45 -> RE: The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/16/2015 12:03:39 PM)

Ahh yes the morale bug that would make a difference- Morale is a massive influence on CV.



Peltonx -> RE: The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/16/2015 5:39:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Wow very low loses vs historical, you should be around 7.5 million by June 42.

Hes going to have a hard time cracking your lines.

+1 will also make for a hard winter for him.



Well you are right. To my defense I must say that I have lost around 200 morale points due to the morale bug. It really hurts when your 90+ inf divisions suddenly have 75 morale. Also the mud have stopped me for 2-3 turns.


Yes killer for Germans as 41 is everything. As Germany you can make no errors. Russians can recover from anything other then 4 or 5 massive pockets in 41.

Good luck, vs Brian I not stand a chance as he has walls and walls of 30+ CV stacks and its only June 42. Armaments now are always at zero even when there is no combat for 4 or 5 turns of mud.
Something wrong for sure other then squad swapping bugs, still looking.

Logistics nerfs + 2 to 3 turns of mud make game unwinnable all things being equal, Russian losses are far below historical which makes OOB far higher then normal.



STEF78 -> RE: The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/16/2015 9:50:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

interesting situation, what is your industry like? If you have lots of arms pts and HI he is going to be in real trouble by 1943?

I'm in good shape HI>200, Arm>300. Will post a picture as soon as I get the turn



STEF78 -> RE: The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/16/2015 9:51:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: schascha

Salut Stef,

Content de suivre un nouvel AAR de ta plume.

Bonne chance, ca a l'air bien parti!!!

Merci Schascha, pour le moment la partie est équilibrée. Et toi, contre Bozo? Je désespère de voir un AAR



STEF78 -> RE: The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/16/2015 10:04:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Wow very low loses vs historical, you should be around 7.5 million by June 42.

Hes going to have a hard time cracking your lines.

+1 will also make for a hard winter for him.



Well you are right. To my defense I must say that I have lost around 200 morale points due to the morale bug. It really hurts when your 90+ inf divisions suddenly have 75 morale. Also the mud have stopped me for 2-3 turns.

2/3 turns of mud per weather zone? did we play the same game? [;)]

But in fact the turn (I think it was the 14th) we played under bug morale rules affected your strength... On my side, my 10 guards units were sent back to 45 morale

Below the effect on german infs as shown by Bobo (after bug/before bug)

[img]http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/116405moralebug.jpg[/img]



STEF78 -> RE: The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/16/2015 10:08:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: 821Bobo


quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78

German opening was quite traditional with a strong reinforcement of the South.



This is not true. From the original dispositions I have moved only GD regiment to the south.


Ok I thought you moved more more units in the south
quote:


quote:


821bobo wasn't very focused on encirclements (or I was enough cautious...)


I was not able to create any bigger pocket. You have been very good in retreating with good timing. [:(]

Thanks! I learned a lot with Beekeeper



Bozo_the_Clown -> RE: The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/16/2015 10:53:48 PM)

quote:

Merci Schascha, pour le moment la partie est équilibrée. Et toi, contre Bozo? Je désespère de voir un AAR


Hi, Stef. The game vs Schascha is long over. It lasted only a couple of turns before I quit because of all the changes and the constant stream of new patches. Currently, I am also playing against 821Bobo. We started with 08.07. I intend to play this game to the end no matter how many new patches are coming. Nothing is perfect in life. C’est la vie.



STEF78 -> RE: The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/18/2015 7:37:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78


quote:

ORIGINAL: loki100

interesting situation, what is your industry like? If you have lots of arms pts and HI he is going to be in real trouble by 1943?

I'm in good shape HI>200, Arm>300. Will post a picture as soon as I get the turn


[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/195376bobo26HIARM.jpg[/img]



STEF78 -> The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/18/2015 7:37:56 PM)

A general view at the beginning of the blizzard

Leningrad and Sevastopol are lost but 821bobo choosed to hold the line all along the front and to keep some Pzd/Mot on the front line. Unusual, but maybe efficient.

My aims for the blizzard:
- inflict losses to german infs
- destroy some german infs
- generate guards units
- create a buffer for the next summer

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/905697bobo25.jpg[/img]



chaos45 -> RE: The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/18/2015 7:59:13 PM)

He is in for an extremely rough winter especially with +1.




STEF78 -> The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/22/2015 9:25:05 PM)

Turn 25, 4th december 1941

First turn of blizzard, I begin to hammer the german line

NW of Moscow, I try to isolate the more advanced german infs

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/149096bobo25n.jpg[/img]

In the center, pretty satisfied

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/587226bobo25c.jpg[/img]

In the South, strong resistance...

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/557296bobo25s.jpg[/img]

In crimea, I use my naval abilities to land 2 rifle brigades behind the front line

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/537294bobo25crimea.jpg[/img]



STEF78 -> The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/22/2015 9:27:27 PM)

A view of the main battles

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/535701bobo25battle.jpg[/img]

And of the losses

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/413487bobo25loss.jpg[/img]



STEF78 -> The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/23/2015 5:14:46 PM)

Turn 26, 11th december 1941

2nd turn of mild blizzard.

Nothing decisive yet in the Leningrad area but interesting advance NW of Moscow. Bobo sent 2 Pzd in this area to stop my progress.

[img]http://img15.hostingpics.net/pics/989972bobo26n.jpg[/img]

In the center, the german line weakens

[img]http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/815228bobo26c.jpg[/img]

In the South, heavy german resistance.

[img]http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/522466bobo26s.jpg[/img]

In crimea, my rifle brigades were shattered but romanians paid the price for it!

[img]http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/382141bobo26crimea.jpg[/img]



STEF78 -> The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/23/2015 7:13:12 PM)

Heavy battle report as usual during blizzard. German Pzd are a hard nut...

[img]http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/304767bobo26battle.jpg[/img]

And the OOB, I'm far above 6M men but german Pzd are still strong

[img]http://img11.hostingpics.net/pics/521257bobo26oob.jpg[/img]



chaos45 -> RE: The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/23/2015 7:46:32 PM)

Yep looks like the +1 odds shift is proving crushing.



STEF78 -> RE: The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/23/2015 8:14:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Yep looks like the +1 odds shift is proving crushing.

+1 a is an advantage but above all, I think that holding ground south of kaluga is a mistake.

It's better for the german to give some space and keep his Inf divs in better shape. The key for him is the spring counteroffensive. Blizzard, and especially december 1941, is only a bad moment.

We shall see if Bobo will be able to take back the initiative in march 1942.



chaos45 -> RE: The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/23/2015 8:27:20 PM)

the issue is he didnt have alot of ground to give. Him starting a 1-2 hex step back from his start positions puts him in the swamps by spring...not a good spring offensive spot to start from.



STEF78 -> RE: The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/23/2015 8:44:59 PM)

He could have given ground in the the Kursk and Stalino areas and strongly held in front of Kharkov. North of Kaluga the russians cannot advance alot.

I wait his 28th turn before posting the next pictures...



chaos45 -> RE: The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/23/2015 10:00:07 PM)

not being all the way to Tula and Voroznevh didnt give him alot of ground to give...nor being all the way to Rostov. If you watch Peltons games his stop line is Stalino/Kursk an such which is why he tries to drive so far forward even at the expense of taking some early casualties from Soviet attacks in NOV against the strung out troops.

If the Start of thE soviet offensive is already at those lines its tough for the Germans to just give ground, if they give more than that over the winter it basically means they are giving up the chance of winning the game period. Because if they start further back than that they will never take enough ground in 1942 to have a chance to win the game or slow the Soviet counterpush come late 42 on.

Just my 2 cents from playing the game the last 6 months or so lol.



STEF78 -> RE: The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/24/2015 11:35:07 AM)

I don't think that ground is the key. For the german player WITE is about encirclements and destruction of the red army. As far as the german player has strong beachheads east of the Dniepr and a strong bullk of experienced units, he can win.




chaos45 -> RE: The Great Patriotic War (STE78 vs 821bobo) (11/24/2015 1:29:09 PM)

I disagree- if the German player allows themselves to be pushed back to far then the Soviet player doesnt have to fight for anything in 1942.

If you push a German player back to almost Smolensk/bryansk/Dnepr in the south then once spring hits the Soviet player can just start to fall back and not make a stand again until Tula/voroznevh/Rostov....basically costing the Germans several weeks or doing nothing but pursuit and time wasting fixing the rail gauges in 1942 = a dud of a 1942 offensive. Esp if the Soviets still have the river at Voroznevh and Rostov to defend in force. German forces wont matter at all esp if you have a good cadre of tank corps and cav corps to back up the river line defense.

The Germans arent invincible in 1942 and 5 more NM for the Soviets all of 1942 is a massive change in Soviet combat power compared to 1.08.03. Look at the change in me and Peltons game from early/mid 1942 to late 1942 when Soviet NM went back up to 45. I have a new game going on now as well- much slower turn flipping though so be awhile before I see 1942..I think 1942 is going to be extremely rough for the Germans with a less gainful 1941 and stronger Soviets in 1942. With +1 odds for attacks you should inflict enough losses and ground gains on the Germans that 1942 wont matter if he can even get a good offensive going at all.



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