RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (Full Version)

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sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (7/30/2017 4:42:28 PM)

T129 stats
losses 21.5 to 64.5.
Air 111 (guess what I forgot to do in my last turn[:-]) to 419



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (7/31/2017 9:30:46 PM)

T130 The squabbling over the middle of nowhere continues


[image]local://upfiles/35790/F809DFA277994F29B38866DCAB1F0BBF.jpg[/image]



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/3/2017 8:33:47 AM)

Picture is not quite finished turn ( I think ! did plug the hole but not well enough[X(]) After cracking down all the Brianite penetrations, losses were 24.1 to 63.1; air 21 to 275.



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/6/2017 12:06:53 PM)

We continue to make Kursk look like a skirmish as perhaps the biggest armour clash in WiTE continues unabated

[image]local://upfiles/35790/4256D71311304105B6ACA32D6DF7F55B.jpg[/image]



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/6/2017 12:10:50 PM)

Minor sideshow in the north - provided that the Brianites are contained. Each side clears out 1 salient whist the most northerly lunge captures a hex. Heavy reinforcements including armour rush to the area to try to contain the orc advance

[image]local://upfiles/35790/740DC6C3C7944102A83A38A9FD8C72D5.jpg[/image]



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/6/2017 12:15:59 PM)

the missing losses screen from the previous turn

[image]local://upfiles/35790/F3FD4EDBA6144B1BA6F7D418B5655D7C.jpg[/image]

T34s are lost at a rate of over 100 per day, and the new heavier SUs take a pounding from massed Tigers, Panthers and heavy German AT units. Over 1800 trucks captured which must mean massive total truck losses. Air losses 14 to 291.

HIWI numbers now exceed 2/3rds of a million [sm=happy0005.gif]. Scary to think back to the days before they existed.



Stelteck -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/6/2017 12:47:49 PM)

Looking at german troops, i noticed that panzerdivision have now a combat value between 20 an 30, and panzergrenader more than 40.

It is far better than the value of panzerdivision in 1941/1942, with lower national morale. What is your secret ?



Psych0 -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/6/2017 5:55:20 PM)

At Stelteck... is that due to Better CV Math option?

At Silly... coming out of stealth mode and just wanted to thank you for a great AAR for 130 turns now. Read it all the last week or so and learned a lot. The AAR gave me plenty of ideas to improve my game as a WITE novice (although not an Eastfront novice). It's been aspirational sir! Now should I also read Brian's side of the story? [X(]



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/7/2017 7:21:39 PM)

Welcome to the AAR PsychO and tx for your kind words. As you know , we are (were?) playing the alt VC260 option which meant game 'officially' ended when I took Saratov. When we started, more realistic (and higher) CVs were just another option and you could not have more than 1. Read Brian's AAR with care. It is bound to be full of Bolshevik lies and doctored screenshots.

@ Stelteck: I wish I could claim to be so good with computers that I hacked into the game database to double my unit CVs during my turn, before putting them back to normal before sending (so Brian didn't notice) and that the 40 pointer was simply my failure to dial one unit back down before taking the screenshot. Sadly, the truth is more prosaic. The unit is GD with morale + exp of 99 and with butch attachments. PG xx norm is about 14. Will post details when I do T133.



Manstein63 -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/7/2017 7:43:18 PM)

1200 tanks destroyed for the loss of 150 surely Brian can't sustain such losses for much longer.
Manstein63



Crackaces -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/7/2017 7:56:26 PM)

quote:

It is bound to be full of Bolshevik lies and doctored screenshots.


I keep telling you sillyflower.. from my purview the Bolsheviks have yet to arrive .. most of the units are lukewarm capitalist at best [8D]

I do have a question .. Have you seen expected German losses given the battles? Were you expecting higher losses given the attacks of surrounded units?



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/8/2017 8:19:55 AM)

@ Manstein - Red tank numbers seem to be holding fairly steady, but the damage will be to experience levels and to morale, so their CVs will plummet. And he will have a worsening truck shortage [:D].

@ Crackaces - I have learned to expect the levels of losses I've been seeing - though that may not be a very insightful or useful answer. I have only had 1 previous game as G go into '43 before my opponent disappeared, and that was years ago. As Russian almost all opponents have surrendered by now, and those who didn't were all getting a serious kicking. Axis casualties are bound to increase though they should be relatively low for the date because the Bolsheviks (sic - I ignore your attempts at maskirova) are relatively weak; both in terms of sheer numbers and by comparison to the wehrmacht.



Crackaces -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/8/2017 2:55:32 PM)

I asked the question because of the controversy in the thread "German Losses". This game seems to be very enjoyable for both players and presents a challenge; although, this game has not produced "historical" results.



Stelteck -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/8/2017 3:04:14 PM)

Also probably end 1943 the T-34 is now obsolete against the new german tanks and so die very easily, like the light tanks were dying in 1942. (Here more than 700 looses).

The T-34 gun is also obsolete at this time. He will need the 85mm version to re-start doing damage.
(Or lots of SU. I see the ennemy engage (and lost) some numbers of SU-85/122/152).

I find the screen of damage without logistic phase (german turn only or soviet turn only) very interesting to check how different tanks perform in battle.



chaos45 -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/8/2017 3:57:10 PM)

The key to latewar Soviet play is to breakthrough and encircle....with all this head to head fighting Brian G is done. Losing that many tanks a week he cannot afford of the long haul. Eventually it will weaken his tank forces.

Silly's German army is still very strong and so each time Brian makes progress he is facing massive counterattacks that are effectively smashing his own armored forces down.



Crackaces -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/8/2017 4:53:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

The key to latewar Soviet play is to breakthrough and encircle....with all this head to head fighting Brian G is done. Losing that many tanks a week he cannot afford of the long haul. Eventually it will weaken his tank forces.

Silly's German army is still very strong and so each time Brian makes progress he is facing massive counterattacks that are effectively smashing his own armored forces down.


I think also Sillyflower is playing the defense the German's should have executed .. a mobile blocking action rather than "stand and die!" which allowed the historical encirclements ...
The game allows for a couple of hexes to retreat followed by a mobile counterattack that brings the front back to an original position as you stated.



STEF78 -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/8/2017 5:22:59 PM)

We are only late 1943 and morale will continue to decrease/increase for the germans/russians

Summer 1944 is a killing for the germans. I played it twice and I just cannot imagine the result with such a long frontline.



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/8/2017 8:16:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

I asked the question because of the controversy in the thread "German Losses".


I have to say that I'm not sure what point the thread is making except that G losses in the very early turns are extremely low, and an explanation by Morvael how the casualties are calculated and displayed.
I have always found that from '42 attacking gets harder for G with increased casualties even when successful. Certainly this is marked now. Combat result near the top of this page is a good example. Hence my earlier analysis of when G should attack and when restraint is better..



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/8/2017 8:22:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

I find the screen of damage without logistic phase (german turn only or soviet turn only) very interesting to check how different tanks perform in battle.



The hardcore way of doing this is to increase the combat results level, though I almost always stick on 3. I sometimes use 4 when doing ground bombing: it doesn't take long. Otherwise higher levels are likely to end in death by boredom and/or the end of any relationship with any loved one. I do usually look at the losses screen after any large battle to see what has been killed. More useful for this purpose than the G or R turn: those these are very helpful too.



Crackaces -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/9/2017 1:51:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78

We are only late 1943 and morale will continue to decrease/increase for the germans/russians

Summer 1944 is a killing for the germans. I played it twice and I just cannot imagine the result with such a long frontline.


In my sophomoric view (only 2 PBEM games under my belt , and none past turn 40), in terms of blood, space, time Sillyflower has plenty of space to give to save blood. So when his units start losing CV due to morale I suspect his line will move ever so slowly toward Berlin. But continuing to maneuver his PzCorps to attrite MP's . I can't see destruction of Army Group Center nor Mildly market minded Soviets in Berlin ....even by 1946 if the game could continue to that point. But better yet because of the discipline of the players we will get a chance to see!



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/9/2017 4:46:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78

Summer 1944 is a killing for the germans. I played it twice and I just cannot imagine the result with such a long frontline.


Stefan, I think you were Sir Robin's minstrel in an earlier life



STEF78 -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/9/2017 5:27:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower


quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78

Summer 1944 is a killing for the germans. I played it twice and I just cannot imagine the result with such a long frontline.


Stefan, I think you were Sir Robin's minstrel in an earlier life

My dear invader.

My british culture begins with Hastings and ends with Fleurus [;)].

I think you wrote about this guy => "Brave Sir Robin ran away. Bravely ran away away.... When Danger reared its ugly head, He bravely turned his tail and fled Yes brave Sir Robin turned about"

As said one of my friend: "ce ne sont pas ceux qui ont débarqué les premiers en Normandie qui on baisé les putes à Paris." or in approximative (an much correct) English "the Gi's who landed the first ones in Normandy weren't those who kissed the prostitutes in Paris"

Sometimes we have to retreat ...



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/10/2017 12:30:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78


My british culture begins with Hastings and ends with Fleurus [;)].



Oh dear. I didn't think that any self-respecting Frenchman in the C.11th or later (and I have yet to meet a Frenchman who isn't self-respecting) thought that there was anything french about the barbarian/Viking Normans of that time. As for Fleurus, we didn't take part in either 1622, 1690 or 1794; though it was obviously a popular choice of battleground for continentals[:D].

You might prefer the Combat of the Thirty (1351) and Grand Port 1810 at which the french navy scored a 4-0 win, which are the earliest and latest french victories vs the English that I know of.



STEF78 -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/10/2017 3:52:34 PM)

How do we define a french?

From an actual point of view, Guillaume is born in Falaise and died in Rouen. It's more than enough to be french.

Concerning Fleurus, I admit my mistake, the british were part of the coalition against us but as often, let the others fight ... and die [;)]



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/10/2017 7:49:03 PM)

Henry II of England was born in Le Mans and died at Chinon castle. His son Richard the Lionheart (or Coeur de lion if you prefer) was born in England but probably spent only 6 months in England after becoming king), died in France and only spoke French and Occitan (for those unfamiliar with french history the people of Aquitaine and other parts of south France were genetically and culturally very different from the rest of France and I think only really gave up their language Occitan after WWII. His most famous lover became Philip II of France. Does this make them French? You can have Richard as he was probably our 2nd worst king after his younger brother John, but John was born and died in England and I don't suppose you want him.

BTW anyone who comes to France should visit Chinon castle which overlooks the Loire river, has been amazingly well restored and still looks impregnable today. The Chinon area is also very famous for its wine which may be useful to know if you have family members who don't like castles as much as they should.



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/10/2017 8:16:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78

Concerning Fleurus, I admit my mistake, the british were part of the coalition against us but as often, let the others fight ... and die [;)]


Just trying to give you a chance to win - we call it fair play [:D]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/10/2017 8:22:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

The key to latewar Soviet play is to breakthrough and encircle....with all this head to head fighting Brian G is done. Losing that many tanks a week he cannot afford of the long haul. Eventually it will weaken his tank forces.

Silly's German army is still very strong and so each time Brian makes progress he is facing massive counterattacks that are effectively smashing his own armored forces down.


I think also Sillyflower is playing the defense the German's should have executed .. a mobile blocking action rather than "stand and die!" which allowed the historical encirclements ...
The game allows for a couple of hexes to retreat followed by a mobile counterattack that brings the front back to an original position as you stated.



The weakness of the Germans is Infantry. Wear the German Infantry down every turn with repeated attacks to cause casualties and the rest will follow in due time. Not to mention it builds your experience and Morale which you don't get when losing battles on defense. I practice what I preach as the Soviets right from around turn 5/6 on. Leave me a German infantry division in the Open and it is Deer season. Break your German Division down into regiments even better because I will get a combat bonus on them. Many suggest against it but I see it as a necessity. But at this point in this game the Germans have far too many replacements to do much about and this slugfest will pretty much go on for a very long time.



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/11/2017 12:49:08 PM)

As Hardluck insists on dragging the AAR back to the game ([;)]) :

T133

[image]local://upfiles/35790/684B92E7695A4C5488F33423ACB6565F.jpg[/image]

I stick to the routine of trying to rescue isolated units (there were quite a few) and to eliminate any penetrations. I do enough to make it safe to hold onto Saratov for another turn,though Engels is doomed which will earn the Brianites their 1st VP regain [:@].

I try to keep a friendly hex between me and his nasty inf. xxx. This makes it much harder for them to advance and do a full attack. Scant consolation for the loss of all my river defence bonuses though.



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/11/2017 1:08:39 PM)

Moscow area

[image]local://upfiles/35790/EF766486D84E413F8A721822312D6498.jpg[/image]

Fortunately my rushed-in reinforcements stop any further penetration. I also start to try to improve defences S of Moscow.



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (8/12/2017 10:47:51 AM)

losses

[image]local://upfiles/35790/47CE72590E274CF3BB7BA70A6C3FD51B.jpg[/image]

Gave the Bolshevik armour another good smack as 1 mech and 7 tk xxx rout in my turn. Losses on both sides increased this turn.

In the last 5 turns, armour losses have been 1000G to 5.3K R (of which 3.5 K lost in the last 2 weeks) inc 3K T34s + 6K R trucks captured [8D]. Air this turn 18 to 300.




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