RE: Pelton (GHC) vs ViraBrand T-9 Tula Captured (Full Version)

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Peltonx -> RE: Pelton (GHC) vs ViraBrand T-9 Tula Captured (12/18/2015 9:00:43 AM)

AGC punches a 30 mile wide gapping hole in the lines and destroys Tula’s industry. Front line HQs are less then 100 miles from railheads so supplies are good. AGC is only 100 miles from Moscow.

[image]local://upfiles/20387/021CB7FDFB184BF18AAB44A484943059.jpg[/image]



Peltonx -> RE: Pelton (GHC) vs ViraBrand T-9 Tula Captured (12/18/2015 9:08:48 AM)

AGS completely cuts off Eastern Kiev, Kharkov and locks down some industry in D-Town.

Stavka has taken heavy losses for this early in the game 1.5 million with another 150,000 now trapped in Odessa, 200,000 doomed in Leningrad, 9 divisions cut of in Kharkov and a possible 12 -15 division pocket north of Kiev.

Stavka has lost 43 AP points so far with more cut off in Leningrad, Odessa and Kharkov with some locked down in D-town.

Railheads are close to the front in center so now Moscow is a very real possibility.

Not sure Stavka can recover from the massive losses in troops and armaments.

It be several weeks before a massive offensive operation can be launched to take Stalino, but strong infantry forces can keep closing the gap.

[image]local://upfiles/20387/5BD04F7223EE44C0B191CDC1F2994FCA.jpg[/image]



VigaBrand -> RE: Pelton (GHC) vs ViraBrand T-9 Tula Captured (12/18/2015 9:15:21 AM)

I don't understand rule #1. What is the difference between evac 4 Arm west of the river and 4 Arm east of a river? Should be the same numbers, or?



sillyflower -> RE: Pelton (GHC) vs ViraBrand T-9 Tula Captured (12/18/2015 9:26:56 AM)

There is no difference



Peltonx -> RE: Pelton (GHC) vs ViraBrand T-9 Tula Captured (12/18/2015 10:26:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: VigaBrand

I don't understand rule #1. What is the difference between evac 4 Arm west of the river and 4 Arm east of a river? Should be the same numbers, or?



You leave the 20 or so industry west of rivers so that you don't get behind the curve, which you are now.

Once you start losing more then 40 AP or HY it has a lasting effect on when u can start pushing west - Pelton vs smokendave and if to much is lost can cause a collapse in late 42.

brian has played Russia perfect in our game and I am on defensive in July 42

I will admit in that game brian got all the weather lov possible and you got nothing in this game other then the one turn early which was great for me as it removed mud for the rest of the summer.

Weather has a HUGE effect now as logistics are tight.



Peltonx -> RE: Pelton (GHC) vs ViraBrand T-9 Tula Captured (12/18/2015 10:29:52 AM)

At this point you cant defend everything or even 1/2 of anything, you really need to hold 1 or 2 things at all cost.



VigaBrand -> RE: Pelton (GHC) vs ViraBrand T-9 Tula Captured (12/18/2015 10:59:54 AM)

Yes, but there is no difference where I lost my industry. I pulled out as much as possible and if I start in the west, the rest produce until you get them.
It was a blunder not to garrison Tula, that is right. At the moment you cross the dnjpre your where out of supplies (more than 25 hexes mostly 34 from railhead). How is that possible, that you get supplies? Transportplanes shouldn't bring fuel and supplies. Is that all with exchanging units and HQBU?



Peltonx -> RE: Pelton (GHC) vs ViraBrand T-9 Tula Captured (12/18/2015 1:34:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: VigaBrand

Yes, but there is no difference where I lost my industry.
I pulled out as much as possible and if I start in the west, the rest produce until you get them.
It was a blunder not to garrison Tula, that is right.
At the moment you cross the dnjpre your where out of supplies (more than 25 hexes mostly 34 from railhead).
How is that possible, that you get supplies? Transportplanes shouldn't bring fuel and supplies. Is that all with exchanging units and HQBU?


Turn 7 I did a HQBU and then 1 on turn 8. You can really only air supply 3 MoT divisions and they cant be in the front only last turns flipped hexes.

So turn 8 I had 4 45-50 MP's divisions a few hexes from the front lines and 3 other divisions between 35-40.

Then turn 9 you have 3 at 30-35 from fuel drops, 4 45-50 from turn 8 HQBU and 4 others at 30-35 from turn 7's HQBU.


Same old chaining of HQBU's I been doing from release. This can only be done in south because I have an extra Panzer Corp in south. You don't need them in North because RH's are basicly at the front after turn 5.

Down side is turn 10 I have 3 with 25-30 fuel drops and 4 30-35 from HQBU turn 8

Turn 11 I have very little. Bsicly turn 10 I try and pull back a few withen HQBU range, but can not do one because they don't have fuel/MPs to make it worth while.

By turn 12 or 13 I will be able to do a full out offensive, which work good because Infantry will be at the front. This will get me to Rostov or be able to form a huge pocket near Stalino.

Then throw in the fact that random weather gives a few more clear turns in October + November Snow and I should be able to clear area and start digging in for blizzard.



Peltonx -> RE: Pelton (GHC) vs ViraBrand T-10 Kharkov Captured (12/21/2015 10:58:40 PM)

Turn 10 GHC Armaments: 120,000 Manpower: 68,000 Germany: 1030 Russia: 458

Armament Pts. Destroyed = 58 (22)
Heavy Industry Destroyed = 16 (8)
Factories:
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp:
Divisions:
Brigades:
AP total:

Stavka OOB: 4,382,000 +37,000
GHC OOB: 3,350,000 +4,000

Stavka Loses: 1,603,000 89,000
GHC Loses: 183,000 17,000

AGN has a total of 15 AP’s and 8 hvy locked in Leningrad. The Fins push another 40 miles south. As can be seen allot of good Russian infantry divisions were routed. I decided to rout instead of pocket as time is important, I can now free up all but 2 of the panzer divisions. Bombing of the port has started.


[image]local://upfiles/20387/E1D0DB75B7A144139AF4F1672A7C726E.jpg[/image]



Peltonx -> RE: Pelton (GHC) vs ViraBrand T-10 Kharkov Captured (12/21/2015 10:59:25 PM)

AGC saves the 29th MoT division and all the panzer divisions get ready to do HQBU’s. Moscow is just 80 miles away.

[image]local://upfiles/20387/299BA461B3544C928BE51FC962928F0B.jpg[/image]



Peltonx -> RE: Pelton (GHC) vs ViraBrand T-10 Kharkov Captured (12/21/2015 11:01:02 PM)

AGS takes Kharkov and its industry. 7 AP are locked down in D-Z towns. III Panzer Corp is pulled off line and preps for next offensive, target Stalino and 2 other MoT divisions at filled to 70%. 4 divisions are cut off and another 12 in the Odessa pocket. Port is at 60% damage, CV have started dropping. So the 3 German divisions should be able to wipe it out in a few turns.

[image]local://upfiles/20387/4FB9A2D42496405DBB39AEBD690411A1.jpg[/image]



Peltonx -> RE: Pelton (GHC) vs ViraBrand T-10 Tula Captured (12/22/2015 9:59:15 AM)

Trend Lines of 1.08.00 +
Did not make 10 turns
Mr.X, Oshawatt, Shermanny
Turn 10
Pelton vs Pitmen Stavka OOB: 3,955,000
Pelton vs smokendave Russian OOB: 4,422,000
Pelton vs Huw Jones Stavka OOB: 4,473,000
Pelton vs rkimmi Stavka OOB: 4,548,000
Pelton vs BrianG Stavka OOB: 4,555,000
Pelton vs Chaos45 Stavka OOB: 4,626,000
Pelton vs Callistrid Stavka OOB: 4,552,000 VP’s Germany: 1243 Russia: 448
Pelton vs Vigebrand Stavka OOB: 4,382,000 VP’s Germany: 1030 Russia: 458

Interesting Call is doing better in the OOB area and land wise, but doing worse then Virebrand as far as VPs go.



VigaBrand -> RE: Pelton (GHC) vs ViraBrand T-10 Tula Captured (12/22/2015 4:05:13 PM)

Yeah, one area in which I'm doing best [:D]



Peltonx -> RE: Pelton (GHC) vs ViraBrand T-11 (12/29/2015 1:39:20 PM)

Turn 11 GHC Armaments: 128,000 Manpower: 73,000 Germany: 1157 Russia: 507

Armament Pts. Destroyed = 58 (22)
Heavy Industry Destroyed = 16 (8)
Factories:
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp:
Divisions:
Brigades:
AP total:

Stavka OOB: 4,492,000 +110,000
GHC OOB: 3,360,000 +10,000

Stavka Loses: 1,673,000 70,000
GHC Loses: 197,000 14,000

AGN gets ready for the assault across the river. Fins keep driving south and 9th Army keeps pushing east.
6 Panzer Divisions head for Moscow or a possible right hook around Lake Ilman


[image]local://upfiles/20387/69B28E25BAC5495798B074E47B68EAE0.jpg[/image]



Peltonx -> RE: Pelton (GHC) vs ViraBrand T-11 (12/29/2015 1:41:06 PM)

AGC starts prepping for the final push on Moscow or a push to make a pocket to the south, while 4th Army and 17th Army look to link up near Kursk.

[image]local://upfiles/20387/79D0817824C34A6D8F01DF1E51B769D0.jpg[/image]



Peltonx -> RE: Pelton (GHC) vs ViraBrand T-11 (12/29/2015 1:43:09 PM)

AGS pushes across to river lines and does 2 HQBU’s and fills up the other 2 HQ’s with fuel. XXX Corp pushes south of Z-town in hopes of a pocket next turn when the offensive begins. Two options here also. A push to link up with AGC or a drive on Stalino with pockets also possible.
The pressure is on all across the front.


[image]local://upfiles/20387/8F1932A3ECFC429C8E322D39E947324E.jpg[/image]



Peltonx -> RE: Pelton (GHC) vs ViraBrand T-9 Tula Captured (12/29/2015 7:37:18 PM)

Turn 12 GHC Armaments: 131,000 Manpower: 76,000 Germany: 1258 Russia: 567 Ratio: 2.2 Major German Victory

Armament Pts. Destroyed = 58 (61 locked down)= 119 possible
Heavy Industry Destroyed = 16 (22) = 38 possible
Factories:
Russian Units Destroyed after November 1st 1941
Corp:
Divisions:
Brigades:
AP total:

Stavka OOB: 4,560,000 +70,000
GHC OOB: 3,354,000 -6,000

Stavka Loses: 1,733,000 60,000
GHC Loses: 214,000 17,000

German loses remain amazing light as Stavka pulls back every turn other then in the north and OKH has to fight for hardly any things ļ
AGN: The Elite I + II Infantry Corp drop the level 3 fort to 0 and route the russians. More Elite Divisions cross the river east of Leningrad. Leningrad is doomed. XXXIX Panzer Corp crosses the Volkov river and will begin driving East to meet up with the Fins driving south.


[image]local://upfiles/20387/81ECBF6414774AA5B87921AA569D798D.jpg[/image]



Peltonx -> RE: Pelton (GHC) vs ViraBrand T-9 Tula Captured (12/29/2015 7:38:06 PM)

To OKH’s surprise Stavka withdraws 30 miles towards Moscow!!! 2nd PG drives for Moscow and locks down ALL the industry!!!! WoW a huge mistake on Stavka part. 2nd PG will be next to out of fuel for several turns but its worth the risk. I can’t ignore this gift. Not sure if I and II Corp will be able to make it before winter. AGC will have 4 or 5 clear turns to start digging in before winter if needed. I have had refit turned off to AGC from turn 1 to-date.

[image]local://upfiles/20387/559A1C0C40AB46C6848E4C2E34B46FBB.jpg[/image]



Peltonx -> T-12 at the Gates of Moscow/Stalino (12/29/2015 7:38:39 PM)

Stavka also with draws in the south, but 1st PG drives to the gates of Stalino and locks down more industry. AGS should beable to get in one more good push for Rostov before the end of the month. Wow a massive number of manpower centers have been rolled over and allot more are with in reach. Not sure how many men are stuck on Odessa and Leningrad but it¡¦s a good number. AGS has also had refit turned off from turn 1 to date. All replacements are going to AGN and one Corp attacking Odessa, which is why pools are rising slowly. Stocking up for summer 42 ƒº seeing Stavka is hardly fighting at all.

[image]local://upfiles/20387/B45FD326A4384BD688D7A080D43B3865.jpg[/image]



Peltonx -> RE: T-12 at the Gates of Moscow/Stalino (12/29/2015 7:46:09 PM)

Not sure what ViraBrand is up to at this point?



sillyflower -> RE: T-12 at the Gates of Moscow/Stalino (12/29/2015 8:18:20 PM)

Only makes sense if you are playing the house rule of auto victory if you hold L'grad, Moscow. V'nezh and Rostov at any point in '41 so he can bring it to an end without quitting



VigaBrand -> RE: T-12 at the Gates of Moscow/Stalino (12/29/2015 8:42:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Not sure what ViraBrand is up to at this point?

Gaining Experience as soviet player and never crying like other opponents from you.



Peltonx -> RE: T-12 at the Gates of Moscow/Stalino (12/29/2015 8:57:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: VigaBrand


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Not sure what ViraBrand is up to at this point?

Gaining Experience as soviet player and never crying like other opponents from you.



Respect.

But still be interested in your thinking in and email.

Thinking a head to 2.0 Russian side.

I get allot of useful info into how game really works (Not WAD bologna we get from peeps (not morveal/dman)).

Thinking of playing Russia 2.0 at start, so much to exploit(WitW system) only way to get a balanced product is put the dog's face in the ham.

Going to be fun [8D]




VigaBrand -> RE: T-12 at the Gates of Moscow/Stalino (12/29/2015 9:17:38 PM)

I feel, I hadn't enough deep in my line. So you would pocket my moskow shield. So I retreat. I expect a HQBU from your armor corps in the Center. Maybe that was wrong.
We are in T12, so standing in T13 or T14 without a shield shouldn't be much fine.
At the moment I lost not so many men but many industry. Some because of my fault leaving Tula empty. So what could I do? I must remain my army intact and continue the fight with less industry as most other people.
If I lost my army before the winter with my depleted industry, I think it should be over.
Moscow provid me with a river line and good terrain to defend (urban hex).
Leningrad is doomed, you are right. It is a question of time this city will fall.
The rail change is huge, I underestimate that. I nearly used all my railpoints until I'm under 1.000. Maybe I decide me wrong in evacuate the vehicles instead of armarments in Kharkow or to evac more and only one point of the T34 factory. I lack the experience in soviet and more in soviet late. Maybe the soviet late experience I never will get in this game, but I tried it and I learn very much. And most important I learn for both sides![:)]
It is interesting. Moscow did not get enough replacements and troops. I read in this forum, that you believed it is impossible to take Moscow in 1941 and my mistake was, that I believed that [&:]
You are very skilled/experienced and if I reflected the game I could learn very much from this game and you.
[&o]



Peltonx -> RE: T-12 at the Gates of Moscow/Stalino (12/29/2015 9:27:15 PM)

I think you just put to many troops around Leningrad.

You have to have 3 layers of defense for Moscow.

As long as you hold Moscow u have a chance.

You make a line and expect to take a few loses then retreat to next line ect ect.

Basicly like your doing in south, but in center terrain is better so you can defend for a few turns then pull back to next line.

You have to bleed Germans army some.

Your very good at pain in the ass defending lost cities for sure, do the same with pocketed units near Moscow or Leningrad.

Russia can still take a beating but you have to make me pay for it.

Your army is intact but not industry so there is a trade off, but #1 hold Moscow then Leningrad.



M60A3TTS -> RE: T-12 at the Gates of Moscow/Stalino (12/30/2015 6:01:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

Only makes sense if you are playing the house rule of auto victory if you hold L'grad, Moscow. V'nezh and Rostov at any point in '41 so he can bring it to an end without quitting


Well if Pelton can wrap up Moscow quickly enough to shift troops to Voronezh, he might pull off the '41 auto victory.



Peltonx -> RE: T-12 at the Gates of Moscow/Stalino (12/30/2015 8:18:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS


quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

Only makes sense if you are playing the house rule of auto victory if you hold L'grad, Moscow. V'nezh and Rostov at any point in '41 so he can bring it to an end without quitting


Well if Pelton can wrap up Moscow quickly enough to shift troops to Voronezh, he might pull off the '41 auto victory.


HMM forgot about that was going for 42 win



STEF78 -> RE: T-12 at the Gates of Moscow/Stalino (12/31/2015 12:10:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: VigaBrand

I read in this forum, that you believed it is impossible to take Moscow in 1941 and my mistake was, that I believed that [&:]
You are very skilled/experienced and if I reflected the game I could learn very much from this game and you.
[&o]



Nice to read another Pelton's victory, you're not his first victim. [;)]

You're learning the hard way:
- Pelton is a very skilled german player
- You did several mistakes that would have had no consequence against 90% of the player but against Pelton, you have been punished. Never let main industry cities without garrison. [:-]

I suppose that your game has Pelton's traditional optional rules setup:
Mild Blizzard Rules
Non-Random Weather
No 1-1 = 2-1

On my opinion, that's too much in favor of the german player
No 1-1 = 2-1 means very few counterattacks
Non-Random Weather means HQBU chain will kill you in the South
Mild Blizzard Rules means good morale for the german player in 1942

I would give only mild blizzard and non-random weather(as it is a huge advantage for the russians past 1942)

Unless you are a top player, your fate is logical.

And last, but not least, be always cautious while reading Pelton. He has a strong german bias.



Peltonx -> RE: T-12 at the Gates of Moscow/Stalino (12/31/2015 12:35:35 PM)

Mild Blizzard Rules
Random Weather
No 1-1 = 2-1








Peltonx -> RE: T-12 at the Gates of Moscow/Stalino (1/1/2016 11:10:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78

quote:

ORIGINAL: VigaBrand

I read in this forum, that you believed it is impossible to take Moscow in 1941 and my mistake was, that I believed that [&:]
You are very skilled/experienced and if I reflected the game I could learn very much from this game and you.
[&o]



Nice to read another Pelton's victory, you're not his first victim. [;)]

You're learning the hard way:
- Pelton is a very skilled german player
- You did several mistakes that would have had no consequence against 90% of the player but against Pelton, you have been punished. Never let main industry cities without garrison. [:-]

I suppose that your game has Pelton's traditional optional rules setup:
Mild Blizzard Rules
Non-Random Weather
No 1-1 = 2-1

On my opinion, that's too much in favor of the german player
No 1-1 = 2-1 means very few counterattacks
Non-Random Weather means HQBU chain will kill you in the South
Mild Blizzard Rules means good morale for the german player in 1942

I would give only mild blizzard and non-random weather(as it is a huge advantage for the russians past 1942)

Unless you are a top player, your fate is logical.

And last, but not least, be always cautious while reading Pelton. He has a strong german bias.



Sorry about miscommunication.

Thanks for compliment, my bad.



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