RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (Full Version)

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timmyab -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (1/27/2016 9:20:07 PM)

Well I'm not sure about it being a massive benefit but I'll take any help I can get at the moment and Bobo does have the mild blizzard and non random weather in his favor already. He's doing fine anyway despite the setbacks.

Turn 7

North

The defense is set, all we can do now is wait. My main concern is to avoid getting too many units trapped against the Baltic. For that reason I've weakened the bit of the line that bulges out to the NW and moved those divisions East to give extra strength in depth. This pocket formed against the Baltic is quite a common feature of Luga line defenses and it's difficult to avoid completely but can be mitigated at least.



[image]local://upfiles/36871/1A8B383451CF4B7DA96B39A28D9DC1B1.jpg[/image]



timmyab -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (1/27/2016 9:22:02 PM)

Center

The Western front Retreated so fast this week that some stragglers got left behind.
I'm thinking of lobbying to have the map extended Eastwards because I'm afraid the urals wont be far enough :)



[image]local://upfiles/36871/E30B0CB004D048C5AD4D02CCF97D0A2B.jpg[/image]



timmyab -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (1/27/2016 9:23:58 PM)

South

I carry out my planned maneuver aimed at encouraging 1st PG to cross the Dnepr to the North of the Sula river. This would put two or three rivers between AGS and Kharkov and give plenty of time to evacuate the Donbass industry. Bobo is a good strategist though and I'm certain that he will force a crossing somewhere between Kremenchug and Zaporozhye. The Dnepr bend is heavily reinforced to try to prevent a crossing in this area or at least make it a difficult proposition. The river is much more lightly defended to the North. 5th army defends that sector and provides a flank and rear guard for 16th army.

Odessa has been bypassed by 11th army, I'll probably ship one division out of the city next week.

Dnepropetrovsk is cleared of industry and half of Zaporozhye is gone too.

Industry moved
7 Arm 8 HI


[image]local://upfiles/36871/D9A08355D6494CE8A795C6B3DA8A6F97.jpg[/image]



Ketza -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (1/28/2016 10:38:58 PM)

Nice AAR. Leningrad defence looks solid.



Peltonx -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (1/28/2016 11:50:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ketza

Nice AAR. Leningrad defence looks solid.


[&o] Ohh great one how you doing? [&o]

Ok when is MT going to post something?





HITMAN202 -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (1/29/2016 12:52:51 AM)

For the newer gamers Ketza is a WITE Hall of Fame inductee. Also MT ,the Aussie with a young family, is one of the very best. Sillyflower would not be sleeping as well in a contest with either. Ask Pelton.



sillyflower -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (1/29/2016 8:30:47 AM)

When I played MT's Germans in the early days when I was a noob and before HQBU got throttled back, the game didn't last long enough for me to need any sleep[sm=Crazy-1271.gif]. I probably wouldn't do much better now......



timmyab -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (1/29/2016 10:16:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ketza

Nice AAR. Leningrad defence looks solid.

Thanks. Good to see you here again.
I probably sent more stuff to Leningrad than I needed to. Either turn 8 or 9 I sent half a dozen good divisions to Moscow to help out down there. I Still expect to lose Leningrad in 41.



Michael T -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (1/30/2016 1:38:31 AM)

I lurk. Almost tempted to dust of my WITE CD. Has the tinkering with the patches stopped yet?




sillyflower -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (1/30/2016 6:56:10 AM)



Good to hear from you Michael. I think there have been a few Ashes series since we last corresponded.......

The answer to your qu is almost - the imminent .08 seems to be pretty much it



Michael T -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (1/30/2016 8:56:32 AM)

We have a decent captain now so things are looking up [:)]



sillyflower -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (1/30/2016 1:14:38 PM)

He didn't do that well in England last summer, but I suspect he's back to form now



timmyab -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (2/1/2016 10:47:17 PM)

Turn 8

North

A fierce battle is raging up here with no quarter given. Slowly we are forced back, but not without a fight. Nine divisions from 23rd and 24th armies catch 41st pz corps in the open and force it to retreat.
This is the main disadvantage of taking this Northern route for the Axis player. It's easier to advance across the open terrain but the panzers are very vulnerable to attack if they end up in the open, even stacked they're easy prey.
Actually this is one of my pet hates. Surely stacked tank divisions should be virtually invulnerable to infantry attacks while defending in the open? The attacking infantry would be wiped out before they ever got near an enemy tank. In an ideal world you could just make armored elements stronger in open terrain and job done, but I don't think the combat system works like that.



[image]local://upfiles/36871/FBFCE870936649CDA43A19D9961E36CD.jpg[/image]



timmyab -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (2/1/2016 10:50:25 PM)

Center

Unfortunately AGC just keeps grinding towards Moscow and the city looks doomed to fall in 41. I've even garrisoned Moscow and Tula this week because I can't be 100% certain that they aren't raidable. From now on Moscow will get priority for reinforcements in a massive effort to divert AGC. Half a dozen divisions are sent from the Leningrad front this week, including some of it's best.
39th pz corps is retreated with heavy casualties. The stranded cavalry division is there to cause 39th pz corps to take heavier losses and to retreat further than it otherwise would.
The Bryansk front is activated this turn and Budyonny is put in command of 21st, 31st and 50th armies. Rokosovsky replaces Sokolovsky as commander of 31st army in a further attempt to stiffen resistance in front of Moscow.



[image]local://upfiles/36871/BB29BA5395D5437EBBC0700AE148DA17.jpg[/image]



timmyab -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (2/1/2016 10:59:02 PM)

South

1st PG managed to force a crossing at Kremunchug. This gives me three options.
1. Counterattack the bridgehead
This would normally be my first choice in this situation but Kremunchug is providing a solid +1 terrain defensive bonus which even my +1 attack bonus and attacker CV inflation may not overcome. If you counterattack here you must be fairly certain of success or it could end badly.
2. Try to contain the bridgehead for one or two turns.
This was tempting but risky. It would require total commitment and the Axis rail head is getting quite close.
3. Withdraw in good order.
I went with this in the end. A bit cowardly of me perhaps but at least it will put some extra distance and another river between my line and the Axis rail head. I chose the Vorskla river line, the Psel is an option too but more risky.

11th army look to be making a determined effort to cross the Dnepr SE of Nikolaev. 9th army will try to slow them down but there isn't enough strength here to prevent it. The Crimea has been given low priority by the Stavka. Sevastapol is a VP location in this campaign version but not a significant one. I will defend the city though.

The Kharkov industry is still intact. I need two more weeks to get a reasonable chunk of it out, but there are other urgent demands on rail cap from Kaluga, Leningrad and maybe soon Tula as well. The irreplaceable KV1's and the 6 vehicle factories have been moved this week from Leningrad. Bryansk (8 arm 3 HI) will be overrun this week so next week should be 100% Kharkov. The remaining industry in Leningrad (9 arm and 8 HI) may be lost though.

AGS's flank guard is again inadequate and a cavalry division takes the opportunity to break into the rear. Three LW bases are overrun, some aircraft destroyed but not as many as I would have liked. That Cavalry division is dead and one other possibly in the center which would make 14 lost in eight weeks [X(] Two dozen might have been an underestimate [:(]

Industry moved
3 Arm, 4HI, 6 Vehicles, 10 KV1




[image]local://upfiles/36871/CA299489490D4E95B392DCBFBA17E548.jpg[/image]



timmyab -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (2/1/2016 11:03:50 PM)

Turn 8 Overview



[image]local://upfiles/36871/A8C4BF0B2AA044DDAE69FFCCAAF52668.jpg[/image]



timmyab -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (2/9/2016 9:59:09 AM)

Turn 9

North
AGN keeps grinding forward, but at least there's been no breakout. This week Vasilevsky gives them another bloody nose and 41st pz corps is again thrown back. I think I'll only have two more turns though before the Leningrad rail line is cut.


[image]local://upfiles/36871/1E9144C747024F04862D7091A801E61D.jpg[/image]



timmyab -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (2/9/2016 10:05:52 AM)

Centre

For the second time in this campaign 3rd PG takes a left turn. Again I'm not sorry. There is just a chance that it's done an HQBU though so things could get interesting up here and I've had to lay my defense with this in mind, defending both rivers that extend North from Rzhev, with even the Lama picketed.

2nd PG seems to be heading for Tula which suits me fine. A worry here is that it will break South and surround a large part of 3rd and 13th armies. It's a chance I'm prepared to take and there is cavalry deployed to break a loose pocket. A two or three week distraction from it's advance on Moscow/Tula would be fair compensation.



[image]local://upfiles/36871/68F43A1CD67C43E4B64F1B755F0CF5A7.jpg[/image]



timmyab -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (2/9/2016 10:09:48 AM)

South

Difficult decisions to make down here. The most disturbing thing is that 1st PG hasn't moved this week which implies a fully fueled panzer group next week. It's central location is also worrying because it can strike in all directions. The concentration of infantry in the Dnepr bend leads me to think that he intends to make a crossing there and head straight for the Donbass. Hmmm....in the end I went with my instinct which is to defend major rivers whenever possible so I've committed 18th and 9th armies to a slightly risky defense and I'm half expecting to lose them. By withdrawing from the Vorshkla river line 29th and 38th armies are at least able to provide some depth to the defense.
Alternatively he may decide that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush and go for Kharkov. Half the industry remains there (7 arm 4 HI 10 vehicles) and it's a dead cert to lock it down if he takes this option, which I hope he does. However I would then be able to remove other threatened industry next week so it wouldn't make much difference in the end.

11th army crosses the Dnepr South of Nicolaev with very little to stop it marching straight into the Crimea.
Odessa still holds with two divisions

Industry moved
8 arm, 10 vehicles, 10 T34, 1 SB2


[image]local://upfiles/36871/2A961A83414641AD8AEDF3525B2AA661.jpg[/image]



Peltonx -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (2/9/2016 11:16:34 AM)

How does your OOB look and how much industry have you lost todate?



timmyab -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (2/9/2016 1:58:53 PM)

Not certain how many factories I've lost but at this time I think I had 356 arms and 223 HI, of these 8 Arm and 1 HI are locked down.

Turn 9 OOB


[image]local://upfiles/36871/3602EC3A77FF4371B1422D87F3B6C977.jpg[/image]



Michael T -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (2/11/2016 8:22:06 PM)

quote:

Actually this is one of my pet hates. Surely stacked tank divisions should be virtually invulnerable to infantry attacks while defending in the open? The attacking infantry would be wiped out before they ever got near an enemy tank. In an ideal world you could just make armored elements stronger in open terrain and job done, but I don't think the combat system works like that.


And here lies the major problem with WITE, it's combat system. I cannot think of any other game I have ever played, PC or board where 9 Soviet ID can have any hope of retreating a Pz and 2 Mot Divisions. This attack would translate in to a 1-2 or 1-1 at beast with negative modifiers. It just doesn't work. But in WITE it will work all the time. And this is why I must put the game away again. And even after all this time the game still has fuel exploits (I found another one).

I really hope they can do something to get the combat model working right for WITE 2.0



chaos45 -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (2/11/2016 11:09:48 PM)

Game is being played +1 soviets otherwise attack would have failed.



Michael T -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (2/11/2016 11:29:43 PM)

Sure, but Morvael says the most balanced game is with the +1.



chaos45 -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (2/12/2016 12:08:32 AM)

I disagree----a good soviet player can still win some attacks in the early game without +1 you just have to use your stuff right.



timmyab -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (2/12/2016 3:09:22 AM)

Most of my attacks would have succeeded without +1. Probably something like 80%. This particular attack is cheeky and I wouldn't have tried it without the +1.

I think 8.07 favors the Axis in 41 so +1 is a necessary compensation. With the 8.08 help for the Soviets in 41 I might consider not using it, but there's still the problem that the mild blizzard is too mild and without +1 the Soviet winter offensive might never even get started.
My favored solution would be to make the mild first winter option a bit tougher for the Axis player and abolish +1 completely.



timmyab -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (2/15/2016 10:25:01 PM)

Turn 10

North

Some encouragement for me up here. 4th PG has shifted it's attack South meaning that there must be some frustration about the situation in the German high command. 27th army coped well with the unexpected attack despite sending their best divisions South recently.
Actually it's probably a good move by Bobo because my strength is now stretched more evenly across the front and 4th PG can easily shift it's attack to any weak spots. The shift South also prompts me to retreat 28th and 11th armies. The change of direction does mean that I should be able to get the rest of the Leningrad industry out next week.
I feel confident now that I will achieve my main goal of keeping 4th PG tied up in the North for the duration of the Summer campaign.

7th army continues to retreat at a steady 10 miles per week. At this rate it should reach the Svir river just as Summer comes to a close. I'm not sure if it's better to force the Finns to fight for the ground or whether I'd be better off just running to the no attack line. This way has a more honest feel to it at least and they are losing quite a few men which will hurt them in the long run more than it does me.

Turn 10 stats included in screenies.


[image]local://upfiles/36871/3ACFD2C21F4C49B19D2356D7EC92BA7C.jpg[/image]



timmyab -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (2/15/2016 10:27:45 PM)

Center

AGC's two panzer groups continue to diverge with 2nd PG heading towards Tula (?) and 3rd PG flanking to the North. 3rd PG established a strongish bridgehead over the Volga just North of Rzhev, but were thrown back by a CA. All the industry is moved from Kaluga this turn plus 4HI from Leningrad.



[image]local://upfiles/36871/0BED712F42F542A19D062442915FAF78.jpg[/image]



timmyab -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (2/15/2016 10:31:15 PM)

South

Well Bobo took the bird in the hand option and I'm quite happy with that. 10 vehicle factories will be lost, but the Donbass can breath easy for a while at least. 1st PG is slightly overstretched and an attack against 11th pz div allows me to isolate most of it with cavalry. My main strength is concentrated to the South of Kharkov to defend the direct approach to the Donbass.

11th army seem to be on a mission to capture the Crimea. Personally I'm not that bothered about the place, but if I can delay a whole army for the rest of the summer I will, so 9th army is sent there to make a nuisance of itself.
A cavalry division was accidently sent to Odessa this week. I'll blame that one on an administrative error. The guilty official will be shot as soon as he's filled out the appropriate paperwork :)

Industry moved
8 arm, 6 HI, 1 Yak7


[image]local://upfiles/36871/E4DA29B07FBE451A9CED63F44B36847F.jpg[/image]



timmyab -> RE: Timmyab (Sov) vs 821Bobo (Axis) (2/17/2016 6:59:00 PM)

Bobo decided he's had enough on turn 15 so I'll just post the remaining turns.

Turn 11

North

A broad front offensive by AGN gains 10 miles along a forty mile front. The line holds against two attacks in 27th army sector. Vasilevsky hasn't performed particularly well with 24th army.

The last 4 HI leave Leningrad this week. Still 8 arm remaining.




[image]local://upfiles/36871/95C0FFB5B84A4D95B2F1C840D8688374.jpg[/image]



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