Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (Full Version)

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Colwolf77 -> Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/8/2016 3:35:52 PM)

I like this game, the game mechanics are revolutionary and I believe this is definitely the way to go for games of this genre. There's one big reason though why I stopped playing it and I'm almost ashamed to admit it. When I used to watch Babylon 5 I was always impressed with the space battles occurring between huge fleets of starships. The majesty of it fired my imagination and I always kept that with me as a brilliant representation of how space battles should be.

I can't play anymore because I lose all immersion as soon as I see the graphics. Don't get me wrong, the 2D sprites are excellently portrayed but I just feel there could be so much more. With our current level of technology why isn't there a game like this with graphics that match the gameplay. When I first got Distant Worlds I was so impressed with the scale, I tried to convince friends to give it a try but they judged it purely on how it looked. I feel if Distant Worlds 2 conquers this aspect of the game it will dominate the market. No amount of innovation in gameplay will gain buyers who judge on graphical quality, It's sad but true. I have high hopes for Distant Worlds 2, I really do believe it has the potential to be the most memorable 4x space strategy and hopefully bring new players into the fold.



Shark7 -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/8/2016 6:32:18 PM)

When I started gaming a long time ago, we'd have loved to have had graphics as good as DW. No joke. While I understand that newer gamers think that the graphics have to be top of the line for the game to be good, I come from the old school where actual game play mattered far more than looking pretty.

The problem is getting people to look below the surface and see that graphics really aren't all that. And with the current generation of tech-addicted folks, that is going to be very hard.



Serenitis -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/8/2016 8:16:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7
The problem is getting people to look below the surface and see that graphics really aren't all that. And with the current generation of tech-addicted folks, that is going to be very hard.

This.
And there's a lot of folk who just plain haven't heard of it, not to mention more than a few who are scared off by the price tag. As good as it is DW is not a cheap toy.



Osito -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/8/2016 8:22:56 PM)

I have only ever had one complaint about the graphics in DW: when I first bought the game (2013, from memory), the text was, for me, unreadable on my screen. They've changed a lot of the settings since those times, and my monitor now has 2560x1440 resolution on a 32 inch screen, which makes the text a lot more visible, so I no longer have any problems.

Check out Aurora 4x if you really want to see some old school graphics!

Osito



Serenitis -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/8/2016 9:12:02 PM)

All the yes. Aurora is for those people who thought Dwarf Fortress wasn't quite complex enough.

Quite happy with how DW looks thanks. [:'(]



ASHBERY76 -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/8/2016 10:24:07 PM)

Babylon5 battles look dated too with the 1990's CGI.It's the weight behind them that makes the show still good.



Raap -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/9/2016 12:48:56 AM)

Most of the complaints I hear are in regards to not graphics but:
1. Real-time
2. Unmanageable/big
3. Automation makes it play itself
4. Terrible performance

I agree with 4, partially agree with 1, disagree with the others.

Real 4x games(i.e. in space) has always had a small'ish following though, both compared to other games and compared to civilization-type 4x games. Real time puts off even more people, since most expect turn-based in this genre.



Gamewize -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/9/2016 12:56:48 AM)

I'm of the opinion that stellar graphics can actually drag the game down.

I think the graphics are really charming, and for the sheer scale of the game, practical. It gives you a good overview of what's going on and a decent amount of informational feedback, too.

I also agree with Shark7: A few too many games and gamers focus too much on looking pretty, rather than being good. I'm looking at you, Just Cause 3.



Blabsawaw22 -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/9/2016 2:08:12 AM)

Is Matrix or the Game Creator independently wealthy?

If they are not, They UNFORTUNATELY will to get with it - into the future and will be forced to have graphics and lower the ridiculous price if they wish to prevail in this Generation of "quick shooting", graphic memorizing, Massive Multiplayer, Pay to play, god whatever else Market..

And you know what, HomeWorld is a good example as well as X-Rebirth and as well as StarLords, as well as Space Pirates and Zombies 2 and Limit Theory, Space Engineers?? ha. and many many more..

This of course just solely depends on how much they need to make.. I mean I guess they made enough now from Distant Worlds 1 to start DW2.. so..

I don't think the newer generations are accepting of "gameplay" over "graphics" as before and probably with all the craziness and demands on life (like checking facebook everyday), won't allow for long-term gameplay and that kind of immersion..



Chris21wen -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/9/2016 7:35:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

When I started gaming a long time ago, we'd have loved to have had graphics as good as DW. No joke. While I understand that newer gamers think that the graphics have to be top of the line for the game to be good, I come from the old school where actual game play mattered far more than looking pretty.

The problem is getting people to look below the surface and see that graphics really aren't all that. And with the current generation of tech-addicted folks, that is going to be very hard.


I concur with everything you said.

As an example I played all versions of Railway Tycoon up until the version where the game concentrated on the graphics as opposed to game play. The Civ generation of games also has exactly the same problem.



Sithuk -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/9/2016 7:43:52 AM)

What is your favourite civilization and favourite railroad tycoon?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

When I started gaming a long time ago, we'd have loved to have had graphics as good as DW. No joke. While I understand that newer gamers think that the graphics have to be top of the line for the game to be good, I come from the old school where actual game play mattered far more than looking pretty.

The problem is getting people to look below the surface and see that graphics really aren't all that. And with the current generation of tech-addicted folks, that is going to be very hard.


I concur with everything you said.

As an example I played all versions of Railway Tycoon up until the version where the game concentrated on the graphics as opposed to game play. The Civ generation of games also has exactly the same problem.




ASHBERY76 -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/9/2016 1:58:48 PM)

I think you can have good graphics and gameplay like the Totalwar's and Paradox games.The problem is matrix do not have the budget so expect lower quality again.



Hattori Hanzo -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/9/2016 2:14:48 PM)

graphic can be nice, but in my opinion solid gameplay are much more important.

I still play the original Master of Orion that is far superior to 90% of the in-space 4X of the new-generation.



Bingeling -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/9/2016 5:26:48 PM)

Graphics without content is useless as game, there are television shows and movies that can do that part.

But in order to make a sale, one has to appeal enough to the customer. And just as a "little content" rumor can turn away buyers, so can for sure also lousy graphics do. Half decent graphics in a modern engine should not cost a ton, I hope they achieve that. There is no reason the exact same game mechanics ways could look quite juicy if that was a priority. DW was a single developer effort with probably some graphics help. Let us hope the successor is a single developer with a decent graphics team from quite early on. Or a bit more than that resource ways.



SirHoraceHarkness -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/9/2016 9:00:06 PM)

Alas due to the small time developer budget blues this game will most likely always be 2d pixel graphics and I'm 100% ok with that. However a lot can be done with pixel graphics and you can get very nice results from hi res pixels and hardware effects much like is done on gratuitous space battles. Hopefully distant world 2 which is supposedly getting made if forum rumours are to be believed will do a graphics refresh to make the pewpew part of the game more visually appealing with ships using hardpoints and such.



JamesM -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/9/2016 9:22:50 PM)

I have always had issues playing space 4X games in real time, I found that it is somewhat of a click fest and as a result I do not feel like I am in control of the game. I much prefer turn bases games. Have gone back to playing the original Master of Orion.



Blabsawaw22 -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/10/2016 1:30:01 AM)

Says it all..


of course apply the "get into 2006 timeframe" to 2016.. yeah, get into it.. haha


https://youtu.be/0wIVi5mafMg?t=1m30s




Chris21wen -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/10/2016 8:33:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sithuk

What is your favourite civilization and favourite railroad tycoon?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

When I started gaming a long time ago, we'd have loved to have had graphics as good as DW. No joke. While I understand that newer gamers think that the graphics have to be top of the line for the game to be good, I come from the old school where actual game play mattered far more than looking pretty.

The problem is getting people to look below the surface and see that graphics really aren't all that. And with the current generation of tech-addicted folks, that is going to be very hard.


I concur with everything you said.

As an example I played all versions of Railway Tycoon up until the version where the game concentrated on the graphics as opposed to game play. The Civ generation of games also has exactly the same problem.




CIV IV, I've still got it on my computer, five I hated and wish I'd never bought it. The earlier versions are good except for the one where you could not stack but I can't remember it exactly.

I've not played any Railway Tycoon for a long time, the games not being directly compatible with Windows. Yeah I know I could use a DOS box and all that but I can't get into it.

Versions 2 was the best, 1 and 3 where good but the last version, Sid Meier's Railroad Tycoon, was an appalling game seemingly aimed at one years olds. I only tried the demo and hated the thing with a passion.



AKicebear -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/16/2016 4:11:01 AM)

Its a bit of a chicken/egg problem - they need better graphics to expand the player base, and they need the player base (money) before they can improve the graphics.

I think a larger player base would be great, so long as the mechanics aren't compromised to get there. If better graphics helps, and I *would* enjoy them, it seems like a natural place to invest more development in the next edition. A larger player base means more potential to expand development, whether on free DLC or paid expansions, and also a more vibrant modding scene.

A visual improvement does not need to be photo-realistic/3D - EU4/CK2 have great sales with a crisp graphical style, but by no means bleeding edge. These games also highlight that making the game more visually appealing *and* easier to learn doesn't necessarily mean abandoning the complexity and difficulty. I wish DW modding and DLC was as rich as in those grand strategy games.

Regarding real time - I actually wouldn't play this game if it was turn based. I think an issue this game, other others with literally thousands of units and locations, is that turn based becomes impossibly dull later on. Real time with pause, including ultra fast and slow time management, is a great way to resolve how grinding most 4Xs are past the first 10-20 bases/fleets. This game ruined turn based 4Xs for me - its only DWU and Paradox games since...



HerpInYourDerp -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/16/2016 5:54:44 AM)

Almost everyone here talking about 'need better graphics' 'people want 3d', etc etc etc, but the core problem is still the price. There are a plethora of games with terrible grahpics, with lo-fi graphics or both and they still ship sales faster than the publisher can generate serial keys, and there are a plethora of games with great graphics that are simply just that - great graphics with, but little else left to show for it bomb.

You can make excuses about having 'much content blah blah blah' all you want, but nothing puts a window shopper/cautious buyer off faster than a big fat price tag when they look the number next to 'Add to Cart', and vast majority of people who buy these types of games are going to be just that - cautious. There are simply far more polished, more established, even flat-out better games available in the genre, but that's the case for almost every single game in every single genre; DW's primary problem is that most of these games are also available for far, far less than what its asking.



Blabsawaw22 -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/16/2016 10:38:26 AM)

Do we know the price of DW2 or something?

Yes I agree DW1 is priced wrong.. but we are talking about graphics upgrade with DW2..




AKicebear -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/17/2016 1:55:54 AM)

I agree that the pricing policy is reducing overall revenue for DW, and is the easiest change to improve that for DW2

I think the publisher's assumption is that since this is a niche game, sales volumes won't be very high so best to keep the price high. Civ5 sold over 5 million copies, and I'm pretty sure EU4 and CK2 are both in the 1+ million range (not including DLCs for any of those 3). All of those players are potential DW fans, but many probably wouldn't consider a price above $40.

I guess the publisher also views pricing as fair, because for someone that likes this game they can play it for hundreds of hours; that is true, $60 is fair from this perspective. At the same time, the market dynamics are such that there are endless choices in the $20-30 range that might be also as good a purchase from a time/dollar metric. At AAA prices Matrix essentially guarantees only diehard fans will buy...



Blabsawaw22 -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/17/2016 9:39:14 AM)

I have money, but I will say this,

I'd buy every single game out there if they were no more than $20..

I've already recently bought a bunch of games including GTA V because it was on sale for $35 instead of $60.. I don't know who in there right mind would pay $60 or more for a fricken game.. they are games people.. games...

I'm sure they take years to make.. but that's that.

the pirate population, which is by far the problem with the industry, is taking atleast a million dollars per game away.. at least,..

if game companies saw the truth and light, they would lower the cost to something ridiculous that even pirates would buy the game just because they don't want to deal with hacking it and dealing with online cracks etc.. they would just buy the game if it was $10 etc..

I'm just sayin...

and $10x 50,000 people buying the game legally = $500,000

what does a programmer charge? $100,000?
Graphics arts designer team - $50,000?

etc.. etc..

please fill me in the cost of gamemaking..



Hattori Hanzo -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/17/2016 11:44:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blabsawaw22

Do we know the price of DW2 or something?

Yes I agree DW1 is priced wrong.. but we are talking about graphics upgrade with DW2..




incorrect, this thread is about : "Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds?"



Blabsawaw22 -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/18/2016 3:03:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hattori Hanzo

graphic can be nice, but in my opinion solid gameplay are much more important.

I still play the original Master of Orion that is far superior to 90% of the in-space 4X of the new-generation.



"incorrect" we are talking about why people don't play Distant Worlds??

really man?? really??


what the hell are you talking about? it's the same thing I"m talking about.. wow.. responding to a few posts back.. that's why I said what I said, about the price.

people were talking about the price and graphics (which even you did!) of distant worlds which DOES relate to why people aren't playing Distant Worlds game.. etc..

unreal man..



Hattori Hanzo -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/18/2016 1:46:08 PM)

I totally agree with you Blabsawaw22: both graphic and price (and not oly them) DOES relate to why more people aren't playing Distant Worlds.

my intention with my previous message was NOT to polemize with you, but to simple point out that [:)]



Edmesa -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/18/2016 7:52:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Blabsawaw22
the pirate population, which is by far the problem with the industry, is taking atleast a million dollars per game away.. at least,..

if game companies saw the truth and light, they would lower the cost to something ridiculous that even pirates would buy the game just because they don't want to deal with hacking it and dealing with online cracks etc.. they would just buy the game if it was $10 etc..

Even if a company would sell a game for a dollar someone would pirate it and there will always be people who want content without wanting to pay for it. Having that said, i have the opinion that some companies have called on their selves that their games get pirated, to name a few:
- Horrendous DRM that destabilizes the game / exit the game if the connection to server is lost / fails to authenticate legitimate buyers.
- Pay2win bullshit.
- Full price games that u can complete in a couple hours.
- Games with the corners cut off, so they can sell those as "DLC" content.
- Serious bugs in games that have anniversaries before fixed or sometimes never gets fixed.
- Trailers that pretends to show actual game footage, but actually only consists of prerendered graphics.

Not that im a fan of pirating, but i can understand that people play pirated version before they actually buying that $60 game to make certain they like the game as free a demo version isnt standard anymore.

What makes in my opinion a good game? Good solid gameplay which encourages to replay it. For example another game that i play is Factorio, i really love that game. Graphics wise its not very impressive, but the constant tinkering your factory to optimize it further is very addicting and i always wonder where the hours went.

A big reason why i play DW over other 4x games? I not a big fan of turn based gameplay in this type game.



Blabsawaw22 -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/19/2016 12:51:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hattori Hanzo

I totally agree with you Blabsawaw22: both graphic and price (and not oly them) DOES relate to why more people aren't playing Distant Worlds.

my intention with my previous message was NOT to polemize with you, but to simple point out that [:)]


ha ok then. That's one thing the internet will never achieve and is probably 90% why people start bashing on the internet.. there is no "emotion" and "feeling" to type print..


quote:

Even if a company would sell a game for a dollar someone would pirate it and there will always be people who want content without wanting to pay for it.


While I don't somehow doubt there would still be someone idiot hacking and whatever but seriously? I don't expect a dollar for a game but the idea of selling something cheaper to gain more people has always been around and somehow works.. take your typical WalMart/CVS/RiteAid/Dollar General/ whatever..

those places are in business because thousands upon thousands of people buy the "cheaper" products..

I don't see why that wouldn't be the case with games. I just bought some games because I saw they were $5.99 and I'm about to buy Battlefield 4 for $19.99..

And look at the graphics and gameplay of Battlefield 4.. it's 19.99!

Distant Worlds what?? over $59.99??



[image]local://upfiles/50589/35131C20EB0F4B9A98E6E4CE7E32023A.jpg[/image]



HerpInYourDerp -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (1/19/2016 1:40:38 AM)

The high pricing issue is something that covers most, if not all of Matrix's titles tbf and not just this game specifically.

RPS, one of the more high-profile proponents of the nicher PC genres and the ones who gave DWU its biggest endorsement on Steam, has covered this issue before in some detail; there's even an article specifically on the matter, although they're citing the war games range of titles as the examples.



sedmi patuljak -> RE: Why isn't every 4x fan playing Distant Worlds? (2/5/2016 4:21:54 AM)

For me the graphic at DWU is perfectly matched with the gameplay. Personaly I always prefer 2D graphic over 3D in strategy games. I like to get information simple clear and that is not easy with fancy 3D graphics. If DW shifts to 3D I will likely search for some other 2D strategy game.



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