Frozen mines? (Full Version)

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Gorzag -> Frozen mines? (4/5/2003 1:41:08 PM)

Hi.
I just played a small battle between SO (me) and Finland (AI). I was on defence so bought some mines. But although Finns were running through them, not even a single one was triggered. :confused:
Now I don't know why. At first I thought that for some weird reason mines does not affect ski troops, but than couple of Finn tanks also rode through my minefield without any problem. So did they froze? Does it makes sense to buy mines in winter? Any help?:confused:
Gorzag
(PS. And no, I did not forget to set them up. They were there!)



Skeletor -> My first post! (4/5/2003 2:26:21 PM)

I have this problem all the time.

Try clicking the mine button several times over each hex to mine them more heavily. It'll cost you more points but the minefields will be thicker and hopefully more likley to kill the enemy units going over them. It will also take longer for engineers to clear a way through.

You can do the same thing with dragon's teeth and barbed wire. If you want, you can also lay a combination of mines, barbed wire, and dragon's teeth all in the same hex (but only 5 build points worth).

Hope this helps. Lets PBEM sometime.

-Skeletor



Griefbringer -> (4/5/2003 4:45:16 PM)

No, the mines did not freeze over, it is just the natural mechanisms of the minefields. Namely, the mines don't go off immediately when someone steps on a hex, rather the computer determines randomly whether someone steps or drives on a mine - this is probably dependent on the amount of mines in the hex (this can vary between 1 and 10 - it is equivalent to the amount of build points you invest on mining that hex).

And the minefield only becomes visible once a mine blows up - I know this from hard experience, as I have had sometimes several squads walk over a minefield, until the third or fourth one blows up the mine.

And of course you could blame yourself for playing the Ruskies instead of Finns :D

Griefbringer



Buzzard45 -> (4/6/2003 11:49:48 PM)

Also check the "mines On/Off button in preferences.

I once mined a road and hill-top 7 hexes deep. Three squads of MC road right through it with out a hit.:confused:



Irinami -> (4/7/2003 12:13:42 AM)

Unless you only want to harry the enemy, place mines 2 hexes deep. I prefer to do 3... or, if there's a tactically important hill, mine the entire thing and cover it with your units' LOS'es. Why? Because they probably won't notice the first or second row of mines... but by the time they get to the middle of the hill, they'll hit a mine. Then they might retreat back... and set off more mines. Then when you fire, they might retreat again... and set off more mines...

... if there are any left.

Mines in the same hex as barbed wire are automagically spotted, IIRC. This is useful. It is like a security guard carrying a big badass pistol. It is a show of strength, and the enemy must make a choice: Circumvent the mined and wired hex, or deal with it. Both options take time. You should have someone with an LOS on the mined-wired hex, but most of your forces should be covering the area the mined-wired hex directs the enemy into. If those troops can easily cover the mined-wired hex, then the enemy is "damned if you do, damned if you don't."



Griefbringer -> (4/8/2003 1:01:05 AM)

Good point about stacked up minefields, Irinami. Another variant of that trick is to place several separate lines of mines, with one (or perhaps a bit more) hex between them.

This means that the opponent has to advance through several minefields to get through them. This allows you an easy way of making safe routes for passing through the minefield (more handy than you could imagine - think about recon troops pulling back from the front observation posts, or tanks making a sudden sortie to enemy flank ) by leaving some one-hex wide hles in the minefields that can be passed through, but placing them at different locations so it becomes very difficult for the enemy to find the safe way through.

I will try to demonstrate a simple example below, x means mine and _ free spot. It looks like a labyrinth.

x_x_x
__x_x
x_x_x
x_x__
x_x_x
x___x
x_x_x

It is recommendable to concentrate mines on more important areas - I prefer to start by laying a single long line across the front, and then lay additional lines across the most vulnerable areas. And I always cover the minefields with fire.

Griefbringer



rbrunsman -> (4/8/2003 1:52:23 AM)

Public Service Announcement:
If you're going to use mines in the setup phase of a PBEM (for anything other than a Defend engagement), it is a sporting thing to do to mention this. Otherwise, you will have a pissed off opponent. Most people agree to only Engineer placed mines in Meeting Engagements and Delays.

Just my two cents.:)



Irinami -> (4/8/2003 2:29:59 AM)

Of course, rbrunsman! I almost forgot this in my latest challenge though. Always make note of whether you expect to be able to use pre-positioned mines or not when you challenge someone (or when challenged, if they forgot).

And thanks, Griefbringer. That is something I hadn't thought about. If playing a human opponent, they can't be 100% positive if they've stumbled on the path... or simply haven't spotted those mines. ^_^



Griefbringer -> (4/8/2003 3:06:50 AM)

Irinami: remember that when playing against human players, it is good to be unpredictable. Therefore, it is good to have some empty areas between the minefields to make him think that he has got across the minefield - only to find a new one a bit later. Also spreading up the mines makes it more difficult to reveal them with artillery barrages.

Another good thing is to use different depths in different areas - once your opponent has figured out that you have a very deep minefields in some area, he could expect that to be the case everywhere, and advance over-carefully in areas where there are mines. That is one of the things with mines in real life too - you find some mines somewhere, and soon you will be looking carefully for them at every spot.

I guess I should try using some defence in depth tactics combined with plenty of layered minefields - say 4-5 minefields behind each other, 1-2 hexes between each, and the whole thing covered with snipers and mortars and MGs and ATGs and airstrikes and fire from other nastiness should make for a rather formidable feat to push through.

And when it comes to finding the safe path - if there is a danger that your enemy is about to find it, you could always have your own engineers sneak in and add a couple of extra mines (better drop in a couple of smokes first) to block it (you can always clean it up later on, if really necessary).

BTW. did I remember to mention that if you are careful you can send some infantry along those safe paths to stage some quick sorties on the enemy to add to the general confusion (drop in some smokes and you can sneak up pretty - coming back can be tough though, so this might be best suited for Japs), or to just spot where the enemy reserves are waiting for the minefield to be cleared up, and call in some arty strikes there.

Griefbringer



o4r -> (9/30/2003 10:15:47 PM)

[QUOTE=Gorzag]Hi.
I just played a small battle between SO (me) and Finland (AI). I was on defence so bought some mines. But although Finns were running through them, not even a single one was triggered. :confused:
Now I don't know why. At first I thought that for some weird reason mines does not affect ski troops, but than couple of Finn tanks also rode through my minefield without any problem. So did they froze? Does it makes sense to buy mines in winter? Any help?:confused:
Gorzag
(PS. And no, I did not forget to set them up. They were there!)[/QUOTE]

It depend on how many mine you place in a hex.

A hex is around 50 yards in SPWAW, do you expect 10 mines in a 50 yards square area to be a real threat?



AbsntMndedProf -> (10/3/2003 12:46:45 AM)

I just saw a documentary about the battle of Kursk on PBS last night. It was stated that, prior to the battle, the Soviets placed up to 5,000 anti-personel and anti-tank mines per mile of the Kursk salient frontage. Is this an unusually high level of mines for WW II? Thanks! Just wondering.

Eric Maietta



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