RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (Full Version)

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Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (6/19/2016 6:39:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

To be fair, I do not want to criticise my Allied partner but I think Orm has already compromised the Spanish defence. I mean seriously, how do the Spanish troops conceal themselves in the mountains wearing this?

[image]local://upfiles/28156/CA19FB67471149B9B19594778827B394.jpg[/image]


Conceal?! [X(]

Why should we conceal our brave troops? Our enemies will flee as soon as we march into battle!

----

Edit: UNP. [:(]



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (6/19/2016 10:04:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

To be fair, I do not want to criticise my Allied partner but I think Orm has already compromised the Spanish defence. I mean seriously, how do the Spanish troops conceal themselves in the mountains wearing this?

[image]local://upfiles/28156/CA19FB67471149B9B19594778827B394.jpg[/image]


Conceal?! [X(]

Why should we conceal our brave troops? Our enemies will flee as soon as we march into battle!

----

Edit: UNP. [:(]
warspite1

You have to wonder why ADG chose pink for Spain..... Why not yellow? Or even swap the green and the pink as the pink would rarely be used.



brian brian -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (6/20/2016 3:57:56 AM)

I thought the idea of Germany reinforcing Finland (Peacekeepers) was still broken in MWiF. ???

Two entry chits is serious, but the Russians don't have to push to Helsinki, just threaten to do so. Their CAV should be able to unhinge any Finnish defense quickly, leading them to circle the wagons around Helsinki.

But the Russians do need all of their bombers there.

The Japanese are stumbling around with little build-up on the ChiComm front, they should be fine.



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (6/20/2016 5:50:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I thought the idea of Germany reinforcing Finland (Peacekeepers) was still broken in MWiF. ???

Two entry chits is serious, but the Russians don't have to push to Helsinki, just threaten to do so. Their CAV should be able to unhinge any Finnish defense quickly, leading them to circle the wagons around Helsinki.

But the Russians do need all of their bombers there.

The Japanese are stumbling around with little build-up on the ChiComm front, they should be fine.
warspite1

I don't know if this was fixed, but even if not there is a work around. It just means both sides agreeing not to allow the exploit.

"They should be fine" - yes, should.....[sm=innocent0001.gif]



brian brian -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (6/20/2016 6:30:09 PM)

And speaking of a lack of divisions - the USSR needs leg divisions on the Baltic Coast, and a motorized division with Zhukov so they can use the Blitz table safely...



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (6/20/2016 6:34:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

And speaking of a lack of divisions - the USSR needs leg divisions on the Baltic Coast, and a motorized division with Zhukov so they can use the Blitz table safely...
warspite1

Why is that brian brian?



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (6/20/2016 7:00:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

And speaking of a lack of divisions - the USSR needs leg divisions on the Baltic Coast, and a motorized division with Zhukov so they can use the Blitz table safely...

We play with the 1d10 LCT so to there is no need for a 'blitz' loss unit.



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (6/20/2016 7:05:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

And speaking of a lack of divisions - the USSR needs leg divisions on the Baltic Coast, and a motorized division with Zhukov so they can use the Blitz table safely...
warspite1

Why is that brian brian?


When playing with the 2d10 table the following rule applies:

When using the Blitz table, no matter who chose it, the attacker’s first
loss must be MOT, MECH, ARM, or HQ-A if any of those attacked (even
before winterized unit loss, but after ENG loss).

And that can be expensive if the only eligible unit for this loss is a HQA.



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (6/20/2016 7:07:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

And speaking of a lack of divisions - the USSR needs leg divisions on the Baltic Coast, and a motorized division with Zhukov so they can use the Blitz table safely...
warspite1

Why is that brian brian?


When playing with the 2d10 table the following rule applies:

When using the Blitz table, no matter who chose it, the attacker’s first
loss must be MOT, MECH, ARM, or HQ-A if any of those attacked (even
before winterized unit loss, but after ENG loss).

And that can be expensive if the only eligible unit for this loss is a HQA.
warspite1

I assumed it was something like that (but was not sure) - but what about the leg divs in the Baltic Coast. We don't have a TRS in Leningrad - or is it for something else?



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (6/20/2016 7:13:16 PM)

Leg divisions can invade from a SCS. Or debark.



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (6/20/2016 7:17:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Leg divisions can invade from a SCS.
warspite1

Of course....[8|]



cfinch -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (6/21/2016 1:30:51 AM)

spain - pink...the colors were red and yellow, both used for china in the game so pink is off red / combo of red and yellow?



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (6/24/2016 6:04:41 PM)

Are the Chinese Communists prepared to take over the responsibility for the hex East of Sian?



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (6/24/2016 8:26:37 PM)

Sure. Do you want to do your moves and then hand over to the Soviets/ChiComms as we did last impulse?



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (6/24/2016 8:50:43 PM)

You can do it, with the orders that I mailed you.

Or we can do it as last time if you tell me the Soviet rail move.



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (6/24/2016 8:58:37 PM)

Okay got the e-mail, I will look at this in the morning.



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (6/24/2016 9:00:22 PM)

When you do look at it, please take a moment looking at the Chinese situation and see if you want to make any changes.



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (6/25/2016 5:48:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

When you do look at it, please take a moment looking at the Chinese situation and see if you want to make any changes.
warspite1

Chinese moves look sensible. Question for the Communists; do they leave the mountain hex east of Sian? I think they should.

EDIT: I am going with this. Realistically there is nothing I can put in that hex that won't be eaten up - unless I put two units in there and, with reinforcements coming from the south, that leaves Sian exposed.



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (6/25/2016 7:52:09 AM)

It is ok with the emptying that hex although it would have been nice if I known that you couldn't defend the hex. I would have left two nationalists then.

My main reason that I withdraw the nationalists was because I thought the hex to easy for Japan to capture in bad weather since the nationalists was OOS. Now it was even easier.

Oh, well. Miscommunications happens. [:)]



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (6/25/2016 8:45:22 AM)

Okay - although I think that regardless of the Communist situation, it is right for the Nationalists to start looking at Central China. The Communist position remains uncomfortable, but the Nationalists could be in the same boat pretty quickly......



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (6/25/2016 7:08:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Okay - although I think that regardless of the Communist situation, it is right for the Nationalists to start looking at Central China. The Communist position remains uncomfortable, but the Nationalists could be in the same boat pretty quickly......

The Nationalist position is already uncomfortable. Leaving a couple of units in that hex that would be rebuild and appear as reinforcements someplace else wouldn't have been all bad. Although they could have been trapped there I deem it unlikely since it is on the Japanese route of advance and supply.

One objection in giving that hex to the Japanese without a fight is that I think it makes their position easier to play. Not necessarily better. China mostly plays for time so I do not mind giving them some good attacks if it costs Japan time. And that hex could cost Japan time and they might not get that good attack for a while either.

But with that said it might be that your call was the right call. That's what makes this a interesting game. So many ways to play. [:)]



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (6/25/2016 7:09:37 PM)

I think Germany will DOW Spain now. What do you think?



brian brian -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (6/26/2016 8:53:24 AM)

As the Japanese, I would be ecstatic if the Chinese just simply gave me a mountain hex in front of a key objective, for free. Their Sian campaign just accelerated by one whole turn.

Yes the German DoW will come now. Neither side took interest in their strong chance to eliminate two RAF pilots at once, as they couldn't rebase into Spain yet.

A pity the search for the Italian fleet failed. Their division will land somewhere — and that will bring out their TRS...



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (6/26/2016 9:34:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

As the Japanese, I would be ecstatic if the Chinese just simply gave me a mountain hex in front of a key objective, for free. Their Sian campaign just accelerated by one whole turn.

warspite1

Maybe, maybe not. I don't understand how you can state categorically that the Japanese campaign accelerated one whole turn (although bow to your greater experience of playing the game).

My thinking is simply. Maybe they would attack that hex and throw a 1 - in which case my decision is stupid. But maybe they would attack that hex and throw a 10 and with little left in Sian to protect that city.... or I put maximum into Sian and leave the hexes north free for the Japanese to try and outflank the position.

My decision gives the Japanese a free mountain hex, but it perhaps keeps the vital city of Sian in Chinese hands for a bit longer.

With the Japanese now pushing up from the south and from the east into Central China, I do not see how the Nationalists should continue to defend the Communists in the north and allow the Japanese coming from Wuhan to walk in to Central China.



brian brian -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (6/26/2016 4:40:25 PM)

Sure, the Nationalists are needed in the south, no question. Though the campaign there will be on pause for the most part during Monsoon season, it does take the Chinese a long time to move around inside their country.

Before the mountain hex was evacuated, the Japanese had only one hex to attack Sian from, across a river. Now they have two hexes and can perhaps try a direct assault, probably only realistic if they were lucky to flip all the defenders first. Really they need 3 hexes to get a good attack, which is generally true everywhere in WiF. But they had no option at all to try it from only the one hex.

Anyhow, the odds they take the mountain hex without flipping were pretty low. Yes, they could take the hex and kill whatever is in the hex, but it would not be easy, even with just one defending unit - and two were definitely available. Thus the 'one turn' comment - now they can use the rest of the May/Jun turn to try and get a 3rd hex on Sian, instead of a second. If they take a 3rd hex, Sian will fall in Jul/Aug or Sep/Oct. Or they can just start sending in their bombers on air impulses until the defenders are all flipped (what I would do right here, possibly, though the Japanese look low on bombers), as Mao is not available to re-org. Also they might just try a direct assault immediately, before the ChiComms can bring up a 3rd defender. Holding the mountain hex might have helped the Chinese hold Sian through the rest of the summer of 1940.

Here is another way to look at it - pretend you are the Japanese commander. If you asked him if he would want to have that hex for free, what would the answer be? It is rarely good strategy to do what your enemy wishes you would do. There is a time for the Chinese to retreat and there is a time for them to trade in a unit(s) for time. Sian is an automatic Build Point per turn for the Chinese - that's 2 INF / year, well worth fighting for. Fortunately for them, the Japanese have hardly been resolute in pushing towards such a key hex as they wander around here and there in central China instead.

And now the Chinese have to make this exact same decision all over again with the mountain hex to the south-east of Sian....which was also previously protected by the mountain hex just given up.



brian brian -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (6/27/2016 4:49:47 AM)

Well I like the Spanish set-up. I particularly like the freedom available to the Spanish infantry division (can't recall where the CW At-Start infantry division is?)

Anyway I would be tempted to play a little smash-mouth football with that division, if you can ever spare the action limits. The supply link to Sardinia is rather tenuous right now, for example ... the German NAV are far away ... eventually the Axis might uncover a key coastal rail link hex ... but then a 3rd unit on top of a key stack is a good thing to have also.

Who aligned Spain, by the way?



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (6/27/2016 8:41:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

Well I like the Spanish set-up. I particularly like the freedom available to the Spanish infantry division (can't recall where the CW At-Start infantry division is?)

Anyway I would be tempted to play a little smash-mouth football with that division, if you can ever spare the action limits. The supply link to Sardinia is rather tenuous right now, for example ... the German NAV are far away ... eventually the Axis might uncover a key coastal rail link hex ... but then a 3rd unit on top of a key stack is a good thing to have also.

Who aligned Spain, by the way?

CW aligned Spain. Mostly for the defensive shore bombardment and co-operation in Gibraltar.

The CW at start division has been destroyed.

CW recently broke down a Corps in Gibraltar so there is one motorized, and one leg, division in Gibraltar.



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (7/4/2016 8:35:44 PM)

CW has a MECH and a HQI in UK. And CW has two TRS available and they reach the Bay of Biscay. But, alas, Germany has a naval bomber in the 'Bay of Biscay' that is available to initiate combat. And it is escorted by a fighter. Should I wait with loading the units on the transporters and do a land impulse?

The situation in Spain is far better than I expected but I do not plan to defend the centre, nor Madrid. It would be nice if I could get some defence to the Sierra Nevada mountains. Maybe defend Cadiz and the river line. That, unfortunately feels like pure science fiction.

I think that the first priority in Spain should be and try to avoid a Spanish surrender. And, to me, that is to defend Bilbao strongly. And preferably defend all the mountain hexes around the city.

And I am considering 'CW aid Spain' as my second goal.

And thirdly defend the hexes just North of Gibraltar. Although any Spanish units here will be removed if Spain is conquered.

Thoughts so far?

[image]local://upfiles/29130/E9B97548DD6A43CAAAF4C471090FC2BD.jpg[/image]



brian brian -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (7/5/2016 2:28:08 AM)

I would use the MECH in front of Gibraltar. Move Wavell there and that gets to be a tough hex to take, esp. If the CW gun can move there and is an AA or AT. The Germans would have to use the Blitz table to push them out and they could retreat to Tangier.

I think I would use the HQ-I around Gibraltar too.

Is there any other units left in the UK that could be used @ Bilbao? Canadians? South Africans?



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (7/5/2016 2:36:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

I would use the MECH in front of Gibraltar. Move Wavell there and that gets to be a tough hex to take, esp. If the CW gun can move there and is an AA or AT. The Germans would have to use the Blitz table to push them out and they could retreat to Tangier.

I think I would use the HQ-I around Gibraltar too.

Is there any other units left in the UK that could be used @ Bilbao? Canadians? South Africans?

Left in UK is as follows:
HQI (Gort) -> Plymouth
MECH + AT -> Liverpool
MIL (Glasgow) -> London
+
ATR (Harrow)
+
One cruiser, two CW (no aircraft), and two CVL (no aircraft). And two convoy points.

That is all. Not even one fighter left to report. I am glad that there is a limited threat of invasion.

The main trouble with transporting units from England to south of Spain is that the two transports are not in England. One in Gibraltar and one in Africa. They can both reach Bay of Biscay but returning to Cadiz, or Gibraltar, disorganizes the cargo.

CW forces that can be used to reinforce Spain, Algeria, Morocco include the following:
INF - India
2 x TERR - South Africa
MIL + TERR - Australia

Most of what CW has available is already in the area.
GARR, MIL, 2 x FTR2 - Bayonne
MOT, INF div, MOT div - Gibraltar
2 x INF (one disorganized) - Morocco
HQA (Wavell) + MIL (disorganized) + LND3 - Algeria
LND3 + ENG - Malta

Only remaining forces are relocated to Egypt or partisan defence.

In Egypt area:
2 x TERR
INF
MIL
ART

On the bright side is that CW has several fighters (4) at sea that should be available next turn.



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