RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (Full Version)

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Courtenay -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/1/2016 4:04:01 AM)

I have never understood what in Finland is worth two US entry chits. What is the idea behind demanding the Finnish border lands?



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/1/2016 7:09:13 AM)

The idea is to give one resource less to Germany. Or, if there is a war, to knock out Finland and thereby secure Murmansk.



quiritus -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/1/2016 7:50:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

I have never understood what in Finland is worth two US entry chits. What is the idea behind demanding the Finnish border lands?

it' very rare that German player, if urss is well prepared, go for full war if France is not vichied or conquered: USA loss chit, but Finland is at high risk of became conquered before barbarossa. And the Finland resource is lost for sure in open war.

as Orm say Germany receive 1 res less from urss. Germany can activate Finland, but lose same finland unit for free in 1941, if too early.URSS have 1 res more for himself and can rail one factory from Leningrad when in war.

IMHO the only reason for don't ask the border is if URSS want avoid barbarossa 41 with garrison: it's very difficult, for Germany, to break the pact in 1941, if urss maximise garrison, as start with 25-30 point over 2 a 1 (including average chit and minor) but produce less than double urss to 1941, plaing with oil, : in this case 11 point of garrison from Finland change the balance.




warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/2/2016 7:18:54 AM)

Impulse 2 French (Land), Soviet and ChiComm

Rail Moves

Soviet Artillery to Ufa

Land Moves

Chinese MIL in Lanchow one hex east

Soviet
3-3 to Bandar Shah. 5-3, 2-5 and 1-5 in Tehran head towards Tabriz on the railroad as far as they can without disorganisation

France
5-3 in Algiers heads east toward Tunis
North - the stack north east of Paris is a 4-1GARR and a 3-3, the stack to the south east is Billotte and 4-5MOT and the stack in the forest below is a 3-2ART, 4-3 MIL and a 1-3 DIV

South - south of Lyons is a 3-3, the 4-4MTN is on the Bauxite resource and the 4-1GARR is at Toulon.

Re-base

Soviet
The Pe-2 in Bandar Shah moves to 75,77 (with the 5-3 INF).
[image]local://upfiles/28156/92FD22F7A53B40B984B15973E880AB3F.jpg[/image]



peskpesk -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/2/2016 3:31:53 PM)

This " French house of cards" needs at CW army west of Brussels and a blizzard to survive.



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/2/2016 6:09:14 PM)

My view is that France is gone. Given the weather dice so far it is difficult to believe that there is going to be a prolonged period of hideous weather to save Paris.

That being the case the CW now needs to do whatever it can for her own position. Trying to save France is likely going to cost CW a whole lot more losses.

I think the CW should do a naval and get its house in order (as though the French are not there (which effectively they are not, and will actually not be very soon)). The North Sea needs packing to ensure that the troops are not out of supply again and can maximise shore bombardment. Again, given the (bad)luck we've had in that sea zone, this involves fighter defence in the 0 and 1 sea box.

Everything else is then subordinated to getting the Middle East reinforced.

As much as I had hoped to make a stand in Poland, I think the need for the Soviets to take Eastern Poland is now too great. I still want to try a quick conquest of Iraq too if the weather allows.

As for France, a fall back to the mountains is being contemplated (if there are any troops left to do that). If the CW can join them then great, but not at the expense of the Middle East - and we have to consider this unlikely.






warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/2/2016 6:12:41 PM)

What are the Axis going to do?

Well one thing is for certain, they have all the cards in terms of options. I feel a Mediterranean strategy coming on or they will waste 1940 which they have been given as a freebie.

1940 is going to be tough....



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/2/2016 8:18:05 PM)

quote:

I feel a Mediterranean strategy coming on or they will waste 1940 which they have been given as a freebie.

Yes. But we must be wary of a '40 attack on USSR. If Germany should dow USSR in '40 it is in a game when France falls early.



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/2/2016 8:19:35 PM)

Would be nice for CW if we could get them to declare Vichy. At least before they enter Spain, if that is their plan of action.

France must make sure that they keep some ports safe for their fleet.



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/3/2016 7:07:59 AM)

Order for doing a naval impulse went out. But, apparently, it did not reach Wavell who ordered his troops to retreat into France. This caused some chaos since the British force occupied the area that a French garrison was about to enter. The CW forces were faster and push the French garrison northwards and the unit ends up in Lille.

[image]local://upfiles/29130/404FC3CA19594347B91F9724B7322794.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/3/2016 7:55:11 AM)

Okay, as the CW its your call.

FWIW I think that all that is going to be achieved (assuming we maintain our appalling luck on weather / turn length) is more losses for the CW - potentially compromising the Middle East.

Of course in the unlikely event that we do catch a break with the weather then maybe this will keep France in the game until Jan/Feb.

We shall see.



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/3/2016 8:02:59 AM)

This is indeed a very desperate move.

Kind of like the CW ground strikes that mainly wanted to disorganize the Stuka but it wasn't a complete failure since it succeeded in completing its second purpose to get Germany to commit their last fighter.



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/3/2016 8:05:22 AM)

In the French Alps I am not comfortable with the French retreat. But I concur with it because it might get the Italians to do a land impulse.



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/3/2016 8:15:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

In the French Alps I am not comfortable with the French retreat. But I concur with it because it might get the Italians to do a land impulse.
warspite1

I'm not either but as we previously moved the most northern unit - which I would have preferred not to do - that gave the Italians a go at the 3-3. A lucky hit there and the route to Lyons and the envelopment of the southern mountain positions is possible.

With this move, whilst far from ideal, at least the Italians still need to fight in the mountains to make that breakthrough, whilst generally retreating toward the Pyrennees (should Vichy not be declared).



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/3/2016 8:18:20 AM)

quote:

that gave the Italians a go at the 3-3.

I kind of wanted the Italians to have a go at the 3-3.



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/3/2016 8:19:53 AM)

quote:

With this move, whilst far from ideal, at least the Italians still need to fight in the mountains to make that breakthrough, whilst generally retreating toward the Pyrennees (should Vichy not be declared).

Indeed. My main concern is the French fleet in Marseilles. I would hate if it was overrun while disorganized.



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/3/2016 8:24:23 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

that gave the Italians a go at the 3-3.

I kind of wanted the Italians to have a go at the 3-3.
warspite1

Well they will still have to, but it will take them a bit longer to reach it in numbers. One of the two reasons for wanting the CW to do a naval was a) to avoid more losses but also b) giving us an opportunity to end the turn - if and when we get a reasonable odds chance to do so.

Maybe you are right about holding station but frankly I don't trust the dice to give us any breaks at the moment. As the last impulse shows - they cannot keep throwing 1 and 2 on land throws.



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/3/2016 8:29:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

With this move, whilst far from ideal, at least the Italians still need to fight in the mountains to make that breakthrough, whilst generally retreating toward the Pyrennees (should Vichy not be declared).

Indeed. My main concern is the French fleet in Marseilles. I would hate if it was overrun while disorganized.
warspite1

But that was one of the reasons for wanting the MIL in place. I accept that we needed to move the 3-5 but in so doing we have too few units in the south.

I think with the weather as is I was right in my production wish. Of course had we caught a break with the weather that would have been a stupid idea and your production the right thing to do.

But then this game is easy with hindsight [;)]



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/3/2016 8:35:13 AM)

quote:

5-3, 2-5 and 1-5 in Tehran head towards Tabriz on the railroad as far as they can without disorganisation

I am confused with this move. Persia is conquered so the units can rail out. And Persia should have 4 (organized) units there to negate the partisan risk.

Is Finland and, or, Iraq still contemplated?

If Iraq is still on, would it not be better to slowly get the units in attacking position while they remain partisan hunters?



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/3/2016 8:39:19 AM)

quote:

I think with the weather as is I was right in my production wish. Of course had we caught a break with the weather that would have been a stupid idea and your production the right thing to do.

I wanted that militia as well. Just didn't want to build three militia to get it and then run the risk of running out of good infantry reinforcements so that Germany could advance on southwestern France without opposition. I hope the card house holds long enough for the militia to be built but currently I doubt it.



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/3/2016 8:44:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

5-3, 2-5 and 1-5 in Tehran head towards Tabriz on the railroad as far as they can without disorganisation

I am confused with this move. Persia is conquered so the units can rail out. And Persia should have 4 (organized) units there to negate the partisan risk.

Is Finland and, or, Iraq still contemplated?

If Iraq is still on, would it not be better to slowly get the units in attacking position while they remain partisan hunters?
warspite1

As per post 246 the intention is to take Iraq asap. We could have done with the HQ railing this turn but never mind, these things happen. The quickest way is direct to Baghdad - and as you say, until that time they are on anti-partisan duty in Persia.



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/3/2016 8:45:28 AM)

Yes Finland is still being contemplated.



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/3/2016 8:47:58 AM)

quote:

We could have done with the HQ railing this turn but never mind, these things happen.

Indeed. But this gave you one extra build point at the cost of one turns delay. And US would like you to not DOW as soon as possible anyway.



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/3/2016 8:56:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

We could have done with the HQ railing this turn but never mind, these things happen.

Indeed. But this gave you one extra build point at the cost of one turns delay. And US would like you to not DOW as soon as possible anyway.
warspite1

That's okay - Stalin does not want to go off half cocked (as they say). I won't attack until all the units are in place - and that will take a little time.



Orm -> (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/5/2016 9:09:47 AM)

CW consider doing a combined impulse.

The naval moves currently considered is sending a battleship fleet to Western Mediterranean to support the French fleet there. And send a cruiser fore to hunt the Italian submarines in the central Atlantic. I would appreciate thoughts, and comments, about the naval moves.

Nothing we can do will really improve the situation in France. But some options remain to delay the enemy or to try and cause him some losses. Blocking conquest of France might be wise as well. And the route to Spain.

But with that said I am at a loss as what to actually do. So I made a couple of pictures to start the discussion.

Here is the first picture.

[image]local://upfiles/29130/A65C2824551940E8A4ADBD5C2577E801.jpg[/image]



Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/5/2016 9:10:57 AM)

And the second.

[image]local://upfiles/29130/B4051289810C4C4880707AFA4FCC08B7.jpg[/image]



peskpesk -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/5/2016 1:27:02 PM)

Go with the first variant but with some modifikations. Good to put the CW mot in the city on the cost. Leave the FR 4-4 Mtn where it is. Move the 3-5 CAV next to Paris. 3-3 Inf to Lyon.



brian brian -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/5/2016 1:34:40 PM)

A Storm will come. Never give the Boche free hexes on Paris. Every impulse counts - this is a game of time and you have to trade units for it.



Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/5/2016 1:54:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

A Storm will come. Never give the Boche free hexes on Paris. Every impulse counts - this is a game of time and you have to trade units for it.

Do you have a more detailed suggestion on how to trade units for time?

And I have given up on stormy weather. At least as long as we would benefit from it. [:D]



Klydon -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/5/2016 3:47:02 PM)

I almost think the second option is better short term. The Allies must do everything they can to delay Paris falling. IF the weather is good (not something you can control), giving the Germans a 3 hex attack on Paris on this next impulse is very dangerous.

The motor infantry is going to die most likely (although I don't know the transport situation for the Allies but with the Queens in the yard and one transporter on the bottom of the North Sea, the situation can't be good). Make it mean something in delaying the fall of Paris for at least a impulse.

I also think you have to move a unit into the forest behind the leading German elements to keep the follow on elements from simply moving up. The unit will die, but it buys some time and a possible bad die roll.



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