RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans

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Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/10/2016 6:55:43 AM)
quote: warspite1 True, but I cannot see why they wouldn't. I was convinced the plan is a Mediterranean one from the word go - but now I see no reason why they would not go for the Soviet Union. If France falls early there is the option to take Gibraltar in '40 and then attack USSR in '41.

brian brian -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/10/2016 2:51:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Orm quote: warspite1 True, but I cannot see why they wouldn't. I was convinced the plan is a Mediterranean one from the word go - but now I see no reason why they would not go for the Soviet Union. If France falls early there is the option to take Gibraltar in '40 and then attack USSR in '41. That is the most potent Axis strategy in the game. Batten down the hatches and build a lot of Convoy Points - the USSR is going to need them.

quiritus -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/10/2016 10:53:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brian brian quote: ORIGINAL: Orm quote: warspite1 If France falls early there is the option to take Gibraltar in '40 and then attack USSR in '41. That is the most potent Axis strategy in the game. Batten down the hatches and build a lot of Convoy Points - the USSR is going to need them. i still don' t see, but maybe i miss samething of very huge, how germany can go for Gibiltair attacking spain and break garrison ratio for Barb on 41 if Urss stay close to the border. with Persia gambit (i think a not to do move if germany go for france first) barb 40 can be on board, with closing med also. you have to check italian moves: if they build marines and or lots of div or TRS AMPH this turn med is the axis choice. in every other case is barb, maybe or maybe not with japan: with persia gambit i keep japan with me all the time.

warspite1 -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/11/2016 8:15:57 PM)
Right Orm what's the plan? Vichy declared so its an elaborate bluff or - more likely an invasion of the USSR. Shall we try and get Iraq out of the way quickly? What about the Baltic States? Finland? Or do we just pile everything(hahaha) back into the USSR as quickly as possible and wait for the attack to assist US entry?

brian brian -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/12/2016 5:13:47 AM)
I quit reading the Axis thread, so I can comment for you a little more in the future. I am in uncharted territory on Pact values however, particularly with the modified Pact option in MWiF - I have no idea at all how that works. Also particularly un-acquainted with Pact probabilities in 1940. I do suggest a lot of counting of units right now though. The early Russian builds were good, iirc, and their air force is highly mobile on Combined impulses. I don't think the Axis can activate Rumania (Hungarian/Bulgarian claims accepted I think) until they DOW USSR, so they could attack Yugoslavia first to get around that. This would buy the Russians a little time...

Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/12/2016 5:14:52 PM)
I currently pondering on what CW should do with BEF. CW has three TRS available for operations. 1) CW can take land impulse and 11th Corps can then move to Nantes or St-Nazaire and the air transport can reorganize it there. Wavell can be relocated. And as a bonus, CW can capture Tobruk. 2) CW takes a naval and protect its convoys and evacuate the units in Antwerp and Wavell. (11th Corps left to its fate next to Paris) 3) CW takes a combined and evacuate. 11th Corps can move to Nantes or St-Nazaire where it will remain disorganized. 4) CW take a combined and evacuate Antwerp. Move Wavell to Bayonne and land another unit in Bayonne. Last move can be used to capture Tobruk. Or the last move could be used to move the 11th Corps to Nantes or St-Nazaire where it will remain disorganized. 5) CW takes a combined. Leave Antwerp to its fate and reinforce the Bayonne-Bordeaux area. [image]local://upfiles/29130/1895781A8735494EBB14846196EBBC11.jpg[/image]

Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/12/2016 5:28:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 Right Orm what's the plan? Vichy declared so its an elaborate bluff or - more likely an invasion of the USSR. Shall we try and get Iraq out of the way quickly? What about the Baltic States? Finland? Or do we just pile everything(hahaha) back into the USSR as quickly as possible and wait for the attack to assist US entry? I think USSR should leave both Finland and Iraq for now. Shifting all its forces towards the German front. Either to its defensive positions or within the common border to make the pact breaking difficult. Or try to force Germany to break the pact before he is ready to go to war (And that is this turn because he sees the Soviet forces moving to the border area). Meanwhile the pact with Japan must be secured with enough forces. Finland can not declare war until Germany has declared war on USSR. Rumania is in a similar position with Yugoslavia as a way to enter the war. So keeping the garrison ration until '41 shouldn't be an issue (unless the forces in Poland is strong enough to do it this turn). But, with the optional rule making it easier to break the pact in '41, I see no possibility of holding the pact during '41. Therefore it is likely that if USSR holds the pact then its forces will be caught in a bad place in '41. There is always the option of inviting Germany to break the pact in '40. We will soon see if Germany turns toward USSR, Yugoslavia, or the Mediterranean.

warspite1 -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/12/2016 5:45:06 PM)
My vote is we attack Iraq immediately but leave everything else. Also in France we do a combined to ensure that every CW unit that stays en Francais/Belgium extracts the maximum price - lots of shore bombardment.

peskpesk -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/12/2016 6:04:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Orm I currently pondering on what CW should do with BEF. CW has three TRS available for operations. 1) CW can take land impulse and 11th Corps can then move to Nantes or St-Nazaire and the air transport can reorganize it there. Wavell can be relocated. And as a bonus, CW can capture Tobruk. 2) CW takes a naval and protect its convoys and evacuate the units in Antwerp and Wavell. (11th Corps left to its fate next to Paris) 3) CW takes a combined and evacuate. 11th Corps can move to Nantes or St-Nazaire where it will remain disorganized. 4) CW take a combined and evacuate Antwerp. Move Wavell to Bayonne and land another unit in Bayonne. Last move can be used to capture Tobruk. Or the last move could be used to move the 11th Corps to Nantes or St-Nazaire where it will remain disorganized. 5) CW takes a combined. Leave Antwerp to its fate and reinforce the Bayonne-Bordeaux area. [image]local://upfiles/29130/1895781A8735494EBB14846196EBBC11.jpg[/image] Go for 2

Klydon -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/12/2016 6:06:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Orm I currently pondering on what CW should do with BEF. CW has three TRS available for operations. 1) CW can take land impulse and 11th Corps can then move to Nantes or St-Nazaire and the air transport can reorganize it there. Wavell can be relocated. And as a bonus, CW can capture Tobruk. 2) CW takes a naval and protect its convoys and evacuate the units in Antwerp and Wavell. (11th Corps left to its fate next to Paris) 3) CW takes a combined and evacuate. 11th Corps can move to Nantes or St-Nazaire where it will remain disorganized. 4) CW take a combined and evacuate Antwerp. Move Wavell to Bayonne and land another unit in Bayonne. Last move can be used to capture Tobruk. Or the last move could be used to move the 11th Corps to Nantes or St-Nazaire where it will remain disorganized. 5) CW takes a combined. Leave Antwerp to its fate and reinforce the Bayonne-Bordeaux area. Some thoughts from the cheap seats: Something that also needs to enter the equation is how much each move/plan exposes the transports to Axis countermeasures? The Axis have come hard and often after the Allied sealift. Getting more of it sunk is going to hurt Allied flexibility in the near future regardless of the Axis plans. The only real unit of consequence to me in terms worth saving on the mainland is Wavell. This is in part because of the extreme cost of a armored HQ and also the fact that Gort is belly up at the moment. If the remaining units can remain and be a sore spot that the Germans have to take time to deal with, then that might be their role. I don't see them as being worth risking transports over at this point in the game if you feel the Germans may try to make a big effort to sink them.

peskpesk -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/12/2016 6:18:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 My vote is we attack Iraq immediately but leave everything else. Also in France we do a combined to ensure that every CW unit that stays en Francais/Belgium extracts the maximum price - lots of shore bombardment. If you decied to attack Iraq, take HQA, 2-5 Cav 1-5 Cav div, place 9 points of tac-air in range of the capital( rebase if needed). Return to European/Asian front with the rest.

Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/12/2016 7:24:41 PM)
Edit: My main objection for taking out Iraq now is US entry concerns. I rather not lose one of the chits for the DOW on Iraq unless Axis go for Iraq now. And at the moment I do not think an Axis alignment of Iraq is immediate.

Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/12/2016 7:31:27 PM)
quote: also the fact that Gort is belly up at the moment. Gort is currently napping in Southampton, while his staff is recreating his lost paperwork. [image]local://upfiles/29130/5C255808D5F34964831DBEC01A0C7422.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/12/2016 7:47:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Orm Edit: My main objection for taking out Iraq now is US entry concerns. I rather not lose one of the chits for the DOW on Iraq unless Axis go for Iraq now. And at the moment I do not think an Axis alignment of Iraq is immediate. Warspite1 The US Entry effect is not ideal, however the +ives are: - Gets it done and out of the way - Stops the Axis from getting one oil (and adds to the Soviet total)

Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/12/2016 7:56:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 quote: ORIGINAL: Orm Edit: My main objection for taking out Iraq now is US entry concerns. I rather not lose one of the chits for the DOW on Iraq unless Axis go for Iraq now. And at the moment I do not think an Axis alignment of Iraq is immediate. Warspite1 The US Entry effect is not ideal, however the +ives are: - Gets it done and out of the way - Stops the Axis from getting one oil (and adds to the Soviet total) Indeed. However. If Axis goes for USSR then CW might be able to take out Iraq and trade it to USSR. And Germany will only get the Iraq oil for a few turns. If everything works out that is. What is your plans regarding the Baltic Countries? Iraq + Baltics could equal two lost US entry chits that I rather keep.

Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/12/2016 7:57:57 PM)
Are we going to play our impulse now? Have you looked upon the German/USSR garrison ratings and decided upon a strategy? What is your thoughts on the CW position in France/Belgium?

warspite1 -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/12/2016 7:59:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Orm quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 quote: ORIGINAL: Orm Edit: My main objection for taking out Iraq now is US entry concerns. I rather not lose one of the chits for the DOW on Iraq unless Axis go for Iraq now. And at the moment I do not think an Axis alignment of Iraq is immediate. Warspite1 The US Entry effect is not ideal, however the +ives are: - Gets it done and out of the way - Stops the Axis from getting one oil (and adds to the Soviet total) Indeed. However. If Axis goes for USSR then CW might be able to take out Iraq and trade it to USSR. And Germany will only get the Iraq oil for a few turns. If everything works out that is. What is your plans regarding the Baltic Countries? Iraq + Baltics could equal two lost US entry chits that I rather keep. warspite1 I don't think we can defend forward in any case - we don't have any units - so I am not sure what taking them gives us. May a well give it a miss.

warspite1 -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/12/2016 8:04:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Orm Are we going to play our impulse now? Have you looked upon the German/USSR garrison ratings and decided upon a strategy? What is your thoughts on the CW position in France/Belgium? warspite1 Not really. I am going to have to look at this on Saturday morning. My view with the CW is as above. Make the German attack and a) stop units heading east and b) hopefully taking losses (with sufficient shore bombardment). The only caveat is how much danger the convoys are put in if CW don't do a naval. If the downside is too great I guess they do a naval and we write off the Motorised (which was always going to happen anyway (it would have been nice for it to have made a difference against Paris but that is all water under the bridge)).

Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/12/2016 8:09:05 PM)
quote: so I am not sure what taking them gives us. A few well placed garrisons in Baltic cities slow German attack rather than letting them walk straight through. Might not be worth it. But I am not sure. But stuffing the Polish border might. Iraq is 90% risk to lose a US entry chit that I, for now, do not want gone. Sorry about that. [:(] You can, of course, overrule me since, if I am right, it is USSR that will take the brunt of the Axis forces. And less US entry means delayed US help to the Soviet war effort.

Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/12/2016 8:10:38 PM)
quote: I don't think we can defend forward in any case - we don't have any units - so I am not sure what taking them gives us. May a well give it a miss. Defending forward is not really the point. The point is that a forward defence is likely to prevent Germany from declaring war on USSR during 1940. But I am not sure that is what we prefer.

Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/12/2016 8:13:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 quote: ORIGINAL: Orm Are we going to play our impulse now? Have you looked upon the German/USSR garrison ratings and decided upon a strategy? What is your thoughts on the CW position in France/Belgium? warspite1 Not really. I am going to have to look at this on Saturday morning. My view with the CW is as above. Make the German attack and a) stop units heading east and b) hopefully taking losses (with sufficient shore bombardment). The only caveat is how much danger the convoys are put in if CW don't do a naval. If the downside is too great I guess they do a naval and we write off the Motorised (which was always going to happen anyway (it would have been nice for it to have made a difference against Paris but that is all water under the bridge)). Does this mean you are in favour of reinforcing the SW of France (Wavell area) instead of evacuating?

Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/12/2016 8:47:55 PM)
If we can decide on the CW actions for this impulse, and whether we should make any DOWs or not, we can get the naval part out of the way before Saturday. What do you think? Or am I rushing it?

warspite1 -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/12/2016 8:55:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Orm If we can decide on the CW actions for this impulse, and whether we should make any DOWs or not, we can get the naval part out of the way before Saturday. What do you think? Or am I rushing it? warspite1 If you are comfortable then you go with it. We'll get criticised whether we go for something risky or we play the % so go with what feels right. On reflection let's proceed with two things in mind. One - secure North Africa - and two lets take no chances with losing convoys and especially TRS. Let's kick Italian butt out of Africa - and then to Berlin!!!! [:D] I am not declaring war on Iraq (if indeed I do) while I'm this far from the border so there's nothing for the Soviets to declare this impulse.

Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/12/2016 9:02:53 PM)
quote: and two lets take no chances with losing convoys and especially TRS. Being part of the merchant marine or the RN is equal to taking chances. [:)] Avoiding all the risks is equal of staying in secure ports. I'll ponder on this until tomorrow.

warspite1 -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/12/2016 9:04:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Orm quote: and two lets take no chances with losing convoys and especially TRS. Being part of the merchant marine or the RN is equal to taking chances. [:)] Avoiding all the risks is equal of staying in secure ports. I'll ponder on this until tomorrow. warspite1 You know what I mean [;)]. Trying to take as few risks as we need to.

Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/12/2016 9:11:05 PM)
Indeed I do know. [:)]

Klydon -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/12/2016 9:11:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 quote: ORIGINAL: Orm If we can decide on the CW actions for this impulse, and whether we should make any DOWs or not, we can get the naval part out of the way before Saturday. What do you think? Or am I rushing it? warspite1 If you are comfortable then you go with it. We'll get criticised whether we go for something risky or we play the % so go with what feels right. On reflection let's proceed with two things in mind. One - secure North Africa - and two lets take no chances with losing convoys and especially TRS. Let's kick Italian butt out of Africa - and then to Berlin!!!! [:D] I am not declaring war on Iraq (if indeed I do) while I'm this far from the border so there's nothing for the Soviets to declare this impulse. I hope people don't go too crazy on whatever strategy you guys cook up, but as usual, there is likely no "right" or "wrong" way to proceed to a point. If anyone gets too crazy, just invite them to start their own AAR against an opponent and see how they like things being on the other side of the glass. [:D]

Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/12/2016 9:14:52 PM)
Thank you, Klydon. [:)] I sure we will come up with some dumb ideas. But I am equally sure it will be fun performing them. And who knows, some might even work. [:D]

warspite1 -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/12/2016 9:19:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Klydon quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 quote: ORIGINAL: Orm If we can decide on the CW actions for this impulse, and whether we should make any DOWs or not, we can get the naval part out of the way before Saturday. What do you think? Or am I rushing it? warspite1 If you are comfortable then you go with it. We'll get criticised whether we go for something risky or we play the % so go with what feels right. On reflection let's proceed with two things in mind. One - secure North Africa - and two lets take no chances with losing convoys and especially TRS. Let's kick Italian butt out of Africa - and then to Berlin!!!! [:D] I am not declaring war on Iraq (if indeed I do) while I'm this far from the border so there's nothing for the Soviets to declare this impulse. I hope people don't go too crazy on whatever strategy you guys cook up, but as usual, there is likely no "right" or "wrong" way to proceed to a point. If anyone gets too crazy, just invite them to start their own AAR against an opponent and see how they like things being on the other side of the glass. [:D] warspite1 Just to be clear, I am not fussed about a bit of criticism - and if I was then I really shouldn't be doing an AAR (have a look at the drubbing I've received in DC:B and previous games of MWIF...oh and CTGW too [:D]) - I think I've only ever won two AAR games - and one of those was against the AI! But in this case its just the idea that EVERYTHING we did was wrong - and no allowance made for the extreme turn length, weather, land throws (at the end - (both sides were equally rubbish at the start)) and we even had the worst of the luck overall at sea. It was that that irritated.

Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/14/2016 8:10:02 AM)
So have you decided if you want the '40 war with Germany or delay it until '41.

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