RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (Full Version)

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Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/17/2016 8:01:47 AM)

I am pondering on withdrawing from France.

While snow is nice I really needed rain to get the time to get forces there.

So now a CW naval is contemplated. [:(]




Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/17/2016 8:02:55 AM)

quote:

Ponder over this: The Germans are slowly advanceing deeper into France, that could indicate that Spain is still on.

Indeed. Or it could indicate that Germany want to make sure that the Allied forces are out of France as fast as possible so they can shift focus faster.



warspite1 -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/17/2016 8:07:49 AM)

So I am clear what you are saying.

My understanding is that if the USSR declare war on Finland and the Germans say fight, any Soviet units involved in that war will not count for garrison purposes i.e. the Finns do not become "aligned" to Germany even if the Germans send peace-keepers. Unless the Soviets go in hard (to avoid losses) they will only be hurting themselves in terms of the Nazi-Soviet pact ratio no?



Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/17/2016 8:13:32 AM)

If USSR and Finland is at war then all the units, out of enemy ZOC, are counted as long as they are organized.

Once peace is declared then most of the units (or all?) will not be counted since the common border is far away.

Although, at the moment, I rather not claim the Finnish borderland because then Germany can allow the claim and then align Finland. At the moment Germany is not allowed to align Finland. Hence the Finnish units are not included in the garrison calculations.



warspite1 -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/17/2016 8:17:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

If USSR and Finland is at war then all the units, out of enemy ZOC, are counted as long as they are organized.

Once peace is declared then most of the units (or all?) will not be counted since the common border is far away.

Although, at the moment, I rather not claim the Finnish borderland because then Germany can allow the claim and then align Finland. At the moment Germany is not allowed to align Finland. Hence the Finnish units are not included in the garrison calculations.
warspite1

But surely Germany aligning Finland would be good because those units the Soviets have in Karelia would then be included in the garrison.



Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/17/2016 8:27:24 AM)

Those units in Karelia can be moved to another location where they will be counted. While a unaligned Finland is never counted. Not many Soviet units will be needed close to Finland before the war, unless USSR wants to force borderland issue.

Once the Borderlands are removed from the calculation there is no longer need for USSR forces close to Finland. Last turn reinforcements plus reserves should be, or must be, enough to protect against Finland.

Letting Germany align Finland before a '40 Barbarossa could be really bad. A German HQ there and a few other units will doom the defence of both Murmansk and Leningrad. While a Finland neutral until the actual German DOW might save both cities.



Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/17/2016 8:28:49 AM)

But back to CW and France. What is your current thoughts?



warspite1 -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/17/2016 8:39:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

But back to CW and France. What is your current thoughts?
warspite1

As you say, the Snow has not done us any massive favours. What are the alternatives - we evacuate Wavell or reinforce him with the 7-4 (which endangers the TRS and whatever escorts we provide)....

Evacuation looks to be the only sensible course unless we take a chance and keep Wavell there on his own until the last minute? The latter seems like a reasonable plan. Get the navy to sea guarding convoys and providing future SB for Wavell, but do not look to reinforce or sacrifice him for nothing. He could be ground struck of course in future but he's in forest so.....



peskpesk -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/17/2016 11:14:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

But back to CW and France. What is your current thoughts?


If GE is not planing to collapse Vichy stay else go.



Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/17/2016 4:22:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: peskpesk


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

But back to CW and France. What is your current thoughts?


If GE is not planing to collapse Vichy stay else go.

How would I know what Germany plans. [;)]



peskpesk -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/17/2016 4:45:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: peskpesk


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

But back to CW and France. What is your current thoughts?


If GE is not planing to collapse Vichy stay else go.

How would I know what Germany plans. [;)]


Make a educated guess! :-)



peskpesk -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/18/2016 9:54:08 AM)

Besides progress on the Battle field the Axis have had luck with US entry ( result/number of possible hits) . My sad but simple suggestion to a plan, is for the Allies to almost stop making US entry actions! Untill 22/34 is passed, unless some critical choice need to be made to help another Allied nation due to more Axis success on the battle field. Of course a small number of opitions need to be passed to get tension, 17 in both pools, but besides actions against JP: burma road, resources and oil. Wait untill the last moment. A Barbarossa could be on its way and no need to waist chits on "Gift of destroyers" when Resources to the USSR could be needed.

The Highest-Priority US Entry Option

This is, without a doubt, Entry Option 34, Pass War Appropriations Bill; for which the US needs entry levels of 34 in both pools, tension levels of 17 in both pools, and it must also have previously passed the Gear Up Production option. Every effort must be made to make this option pass as early as possible. In my analysis, I picked Nov/Dec 1941 as the "standard" date by which the US picks this option, whether it does so because of US entry or because it ends up at war with all the Axis. This means that every option chosen must be done so in accordance with its ability to reach option 34.

Also if Axis attacks any more minor: Spain, Greece , Yugoslavia the CW transport fleet must be ready in advance to ship in 3 army/corp sized units to be able to trigger the suport minor action.



warspite1 -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/19/2016 8:32:38 AM)

How to interpret this delay? Either the guys are dealing with real life matters or they are in a quandary over what to do next? If it is the latter then that can only be whether Barbarossa 1940 or Spain 1940 is the way forward I think.

I agree that US Entry is of prime concern - although will state clearly my desire to invade Iraq with the Soviets if I get even half a chance presented.



Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/19/2016 9:24:04 AM)

I think they are considering changing their plans. Again, maybe?



warspite1 -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/19/2016 9:28:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

I think they are considering changing their plans. Again, maybe?
warspite1

Assuming of course they had a plan - which I assume they did hence the creation of Vichy - but who knows.... curiouser and curiouser..... [;)]



Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/19/2016 9:45:52 AM)

They always have a plan. They are playing the Axis side and plan to conquer the world.

But I have a cunning plan that will outwit their plan. [:D]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp5St7hORyw



peskpesk -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/19/2016 9:54:16 AM)

If they plan to collapse Vichy, they need to do French-Indochina and perhaps Madagascar before right? That is two more rolls.



Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/19/2016 10:18:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: peskpesk

If they plan to collapse Vichy, they need to do French-Indo China and perhaps Madagascar before right? Thatis two more rolls.

If they want Indochina, then, yes they do need to do it before collapsing Vichy. But, I think, they can do at least Indochina in the same impulse as they collapse Vichy. Madagascar can not be until the turn after Indochina is occupied.



warspite1 -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/20/2016 5:11:35 AM)

Soviet orders for Impulse 7

Rail
3-3 Tehran to Vilna

Land Moves
1-4 to Cernauti
2-3 AA to Cutatea-Alba
3-2 AT to Kiev
2-3 AT to southwest Bessarabia
3-4 Cav Vilna to 49,49

Re-base
Pe-8 back to Tiflis
Pe-2 to Sevastopol





Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/20/2016 3:08:11 PM)

I briefly considered suggesting that we pass with all nations. But no point is passing with our luck.

[image]local://upfiles/29130/EDA2EEDE00654813908EE0357A1E15EC.jpg[/image]



Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/20/2016 6:05:50 PM)

I would like to withdraw the Nationalist cavalry from the frontlines. This because it is out of supply and Japan seem to focus on disorganizing it.

How about this triangle movement? This, however, use up two of the Soviet land moves.

Edit: Maybe the cavalry should move to the forest hex SE of Tianshui instead? There it might be in supply, depending on weather.

[image]local://upfiles/29130/FC4EC908B34340A5A8765B83DFC3573B.jpg[/image]



peskpesk -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/20/2016 7:03:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

I would like to withdraw the Nationalist cavalry from the frontlines. This because it is out of supply and Japan seem to focus on disorganizing it.

How about this triangle movement? This, however, use up two of the Soviet land moves.

Edit: Maybe the cavalry should move to the forest hex SE of Tianshui instead? There it might be in supply, depending on weather.

[image]local://upfiles/29130/FC4EC908B34340A5A8765B83DFC3573B.jpg[/image]


This is nice improvment and as a bonus the risk of a "hail marry attack" in the current clearhex where the warlord sits is reduced. I like the first plan since the 5-4 JP Inf has outflanking possibilites.



warspite1 -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/20/2016 7:04:27 PM)

Sure - remove the

3-2 AT to Kiev
1-4 to Cernauti



warspite1 -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/21/2016 9:15:25 PM)

So what is the plan Ormster? Do you want to pass? limited pass? or play on? The Soviets of course could use a move - but nothing vital.

On the other hand - we still get an 80% chance of ending the turn if we do the turn. That 2-3 ART looks tempting.....

Soviet Union
No declarations of war

Rail
ENG to Vilna

Land
3-3 Sian MIL to the hex northwest
1-4 to Cernauti
6-6, 5-3 and Zhukov all one hex west.

Re-base
Pe-2 to west of Cutatea-Alba





Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/22/2016 3:43:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

So what is the plan Ormster? Do you want to pass? limited pass? or play on? The Soviets of course could use a move - but nothing vital.

On the other hand - we still get an 80% chance of ending the turn if we do the turn. That 2-3 ART looks tempting.....


I think Germany wants to have a go at USSR during 1940. And I think we can stop this if we want. Either way I think USSR has to abandon the plans to attack Iraq.

Italy just transported a HQ from Africa to Italy and that suggests that the Italian efforts in Africa is at end. Germany transfer its armour to Poland. They do not even seem interested in Greece or Yugoslavia. And with Vichy I think Spain is out.

Every Soviet unit in the garrison area is equal to 4 Germans. So if we want to keep the Germans from declaring war the entire USSR air force needs to transfer to the pact area. Almost all units except those needed against Japan. So with this alternative I think IRaq is out of the question.

And if we let Germany declare war on USSR then all the Soviet units needs to defend against Germany. Iraq is then out of the question.

Therefore I think the Soviet armour, airforce, and HQ should redeploy from Persia towards the west front.

I think we should do our impulse. Partly because it is likely that this is the last impulse anyway. And partly because if they end the turn then the impulse marker will not move in their direction.


Edit: Germany is currently 7 units away from a DOW on USSR. Two rebasing aircraft to the common border and they are 15 units away. USSR now has decent production so I think it will be good for us to keep Germany out of a war with USSR. Especially if this costs them time while they do no major operations.
[image]local://upfiles/29130/1E2523EB0E454BFAB6F1931D8CB2BBB2.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/22/2016 7:47:13 PM)

The most I will concede is as per below. Its up to you if you want to risk the Chinese Communist move. Personally I like it because we can get one of the reinforcements to Sian next turn (assuming they don't go for a suicide attack and throw a 10).

Soviet Union
No declarations of war

Rail
ENG to Vilna

Land
3-3 Sian MIL to the hex northwest
1-4 to Cernauti
5-3 in Persia one hex west.
6-6 to Zhukov hex
3-2AT to 53,54

Re-base
Pe-2 to west of Cutatea-Alba
Pe-8 to Cutatea-Alba








Courtenay -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/22/2016 7:53:43 PM)

At all costs prevent a 1940 Barbarossa. I have never seen one that was not an Allied disaster.



Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/22/2016 7:57:53 PM)

I haven't looked at the Chinese situation yet.

If USSR has given up on Finland then I think that the HQ (along with other units?) in Karelia should relocate.

Any thoughts on France? Just replace the HQ with a militia?



warspite1 -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/22/2016 8:02:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

I haven't looked at the Chinese situation yet.

If USSR has given up on Finland then I think that the HQ (along with other units?) in Karelia should relocate.

Any thoughts on France? Just replace the HQ with a militia?
warspite1

Why not add the MIL to the HQ - unless there is an immediate use for the HQ, I think we should keep the Germans busy in France as much as possible. But of course all this is subordinate to what you need the TRS for. If the HQ is left then of course we need a TRS on hand to remove him if things get hairy.



Orm -> RE: (No Axis) Warspite + Ormster Allied War Plans (5/22/2016 8:10:07 PM)

Last impulse I landed a garrison in the same hex as the HQ. So now I have the possibility to replace the HQ. Or send forces to Bordeaux. The down side is that most units will be disorganized. And that there will be ship, and transporters, in French ports.



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