RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (Full Version)

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Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/27/2016 7:36:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: peskpesk

Since the Axis are going for Spain -obviously with the collapse of Vichy France - I suggest you plan a distraction if the Allies will fight for Spain. My suggestion are that CW and Free France battle for Spain while the USSR demands the Borderlands from Finland and hope Germany declaine the claim. But this can only be done if the garrision ratio with Germany is kept safe and after preparations


The Iraq operation I think should be permanently cancelled. Unless, of course, the Axis becomes a real threat for Syria.
warspite1

Which I am happy to do but so that I understand, is there no benefit re the two coastal oil hexes?


I thought I answered this in post #417. So I am not sure what is being asked.

- Iraq has no impact, or relevance, on the Persian oil.
- To use the coastal Persian oil for production you must have convoy points in the Persian Gulf.
- The coastal Persian oil can be used for reorganising oil dependent units during the end of turn. This is the main use of this oil and no action needs to be done to use them in this way. No need for convoy point to use the oil this way.

My opinion is that no further action is needed for the Persian oil. The two coastal points should, exclusively, be used for oil use during the end of turn.

I hope this clears your concerns. [:)] Or I might have misunderstood what you are asking. [:(]




warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/27/2016 8:07:25 PM)

Sorry for not making my self clear. The requirement for CP is understood if the resource is to get to Basra.

If these oil resources can be used (for reorganising oil dependent units then that is fine - although I could not see how that is achieved hence my question. No doubt I am just doing something wrong. I will look at this tomorrow.



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/27/2016 9:03:55 PM)

There might be some confusion because there are different rules about how oil is used. The normal one, for production, the oil is transported to the factory.

For oil reorganization it is different. Then it is the unit that needs the oil that trace a supply route (of any length) to the oil being used. Hence there is no need for railroad to connect to the oil. But if playing with limited supply there must be convoy points, or TRS, to trace this path overseas. No limited supply then no need for CPs either. Note, however, that traded oil must be saved first (in a friendly hex) before it can be used.



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/27/2016 9:26:10 PM)

Yeah its the saving I was having trouble with. I'll pick it up tomorrow when hopefully it will all make sense.....[:D]



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/27/2016 10:02:56 PM)

USSR has no traded oil (in). Persia is conquered and therefore the Persian oil is Soviet controlled and not traded.

The traded oil is the ones you see in trade agreements. (USSR has oil traded out to Germany and Germany must save it before it can be used for reorganising units)



brian brian -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/27/2016 11:42:48 PM)

Build the Chinese HQs last, when all other infantry and cav class units are built, even divisions. Particularly with 1d10 in play. China needs mass.



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/28/2016 5:14:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

Build the Chinese HQs last, when all other infantry and cav class units are built, even divisions. Particularly with 1d10 in play. China needs mass.

Indeed.

[image]local://upfiles/29130/692A8503BE4D40619D50FCF5B1A9790B.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/28/2016 6:44:09 AM)

Allied EoT

USSR – One Defensive Marker

Save oil in Bushehr

RtB

France – Lamotte Piquet to Perth

Reorganisation

Reorganise all units that can be reorganised by Libreville oil

Note: Having used the Libreville oil – this still shows up in Final Production? And on the map at the start of the Mar/Apr turn. Bug?

Production

USSR (16)
PIL
FTR
2 x INF
1 x GARR
MTN

Soviets – add pilot to TB-3

Reinforcement

Pskov – TB3
Cernauti - 4-1 GARR + 4-3
Murmansk – 4-3

Chinese Communists
Si-An – 4-1 GARR
Ningsia - 1-5 Cav Div
Tianshui – 5-3



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/28/2016 7:02:58 AM)

So here is the start of the oil step

I have one saved oil in Libreville and one in Damascus.

I spent 1 oil From Libreville last turn. I ended up with 2 in Damascus (correct) but the one in Libreville was still there.

[image]local://upfiles/28156/6C3DBAEF5CE14ECDB5733695FEFF9E0E.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/28/2016 7:11:45 AM)

So I now reorganise all I can from the Libreville oil

[image]local://upfiles/28156/6374F377189C4D23BBA0DCA03C6ACD25.jpg[/image]



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/28/2016 7:16:46 AM)

.....and this time it works. Libreville oil correctly disappeared...

Move along, nothing to see here [sm=scared0018.gif]



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/28/2016 7:29:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

Build the Chinese HQs last, when all other infantry and cav class units are built, even divisions. Particularly with 1d10 in play. China needs mass.

Indeed.

[image]local://upfiles/29130/692A8503BE4D40619D50FCF5B1A9790B.jpg[/image]
warspite1

My thinking is that if the Japanese get a run at the Chinese they may not always have the required BP's to build one. In addition Mao is a powerful unit in his own right. But I bow to wiser, more experienced heads........



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/28/2016 7:30:48 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

.....and this time it works. Libreville oil correctly disappeared...

Move along, nothing to see here [sm=scared0018.gif]

When it didn't work; did you reload the game from a save made during the oil step?



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/28/2016 7:38:10 AM)

quote:

I spent 1 oil From Libreville last turn.

Libreville is the Free French capital. It is fairly safe from German, Italian, and Japanese interference.

Syria, on the other hand, is not as secure. While Syria, currently is under no threat, it might quickly come under threat. Especially if Gibraltar is lost.

In Syria France gets a new oil every turn (as long as things do not change). Getting a new oil to Libreville uses up several convoy points.

Having oil on several locations can be an advantage since there might be occasions when a unit might not be able to trace to one oil. Then it might be able to trace to another unit.

Hence I propose that you use up the oil in Syria instead of the one in Libreville.



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/28/2016 7:42:07 AM)

quote:

In addition Mao is a powerful unit in his own right.

Indeed. Although you might get Stillwell instead.

I just prefer to get the mountain, garrison and cavalry before building a unit that I fear putting alone in the front line. Maybe some air power as well.



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/28/2016 8:24:37 AM)

Maybe USSR should produce one armour or one mechanized now that the production has increased?

Is the MTN for Siberia?



Courtenay -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/28/2016 8:56:53 AM)

The MTN has a garrison value of two, so put it where you need units with garrison values. That is the main reason for the USSR to build MTN units: only two BPs per garrison factor. The only other units for which that is true are MIL, which they can't build, and GAR, all of which should be built, but which have a bad tendency to die when Barbarossa hits because they can't get out of the German's way. (Of course a big GAR does very well in Leningrad, where it never wants to move.)



peskpesk -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/28/2016 9:25:19 AM)

Hint for China is to build MTN and CAV ( all of them)



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/28/2016 9:38:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

I spent 1 oil From Libreville last turn.

Libreville is the Free French capital. It is fairly safe from German, Italian, and Japanese interference.

Syria, on the other hand, is not as secure. While Syria, currently is under no threat, it might quickly come under threat. Especially if Gibraltar is lost.

In Syria France gets a new oil every turn (as long as things do not change). Getting a new oil to Libreville uses up several convoy points.

Having oil on several locations can be an advantage since there might be occasions when a unit might not be able to trace to one oil. Then it might be able to trace to another unit.

Hence I propose that you use up the oil in Syria instead of the one in Libreville.
warspite1

If I use Syrian oil I cannot reorganise all the units - which seems a bit of a waste.



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/28/2016 9:40:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Maybe USSR should produce one armour or one mechanized now that the production has increased?

Is the MTN for Siberia?
warspite1

They can start building them from next turn. The MTN will be used for Garrisoning purposes in the East.



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/28/2016 9:42:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

The MTN has a garrison value of two, so put it where you need units with garrison values. That is the main reason for the USSR to build MTN units: only two BPs per garrison factor. The only other units for which that is true are MIL, which they can't build, and GAR, all of which should be built, but which have a bad tendency to die when Barbarossa hits because they can't get out of the German's way. (Of course a big GAR does very well in Leningrad, where it never wants to move.)

I suspect that USSR has won the '40 garrison race. And USSR can not win the '41 race with the break the pact optional in play. So, I think, that there is no need for cheap garrison units in the West. Units best used for a 41 or even a 42 Barbarossa should be priority along with keeping Japan out should be priority.

BTW. Maybe USSR should delay building fighters until better versions are in the pool.



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/28/2016 9:42:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

Maybe USSR should produce one armour or one mechanized now that the production has increased?

Is the MTN for Siberia?
warspite1

They can start building them from next turn. The MTN will be used for Garrisoning purposes in the East.


[:)]



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/28/2016 9:44:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

I spent 1 oil From Libreville last turn.

Libreville is the Free French capital. It is fairly safe from German, Italian, and Japanese interference.

Syria, on the other hand, is not as secure. While Syria, currently is under no threat, it might quickly come under threat. Especially if Gibraltar is lost.

In Syria France gets a new oil every turn (as long as things do not change). Getting a new oil to Libreville uses up several convoy points.

Having oil on several locations can be an advantage since there might be occasions when a unit might not be able to trace to one oil. Then it might be able to trace to another unit.

Hence I propose that you use up the oil in Syria instead of the one in Libreville.
warspite1

If I use Syrian oil I cannot reorganise all the units - which seems a bit of a waste.


That would indeed be a waste. I'll take a look later on and see if I can fix that.



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/28/2016 10:08:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: Courtenay

The MTN has a garrison value of two, so put it where you need units with garrison values. That is the main reason for the USSR to build MTN units: only two BPs per garrison factor. The only other units for which that is true are MIL, which they can't build, and GAR, all of which should be built, but which have a bad tendency to die when Barbarossa hits because they can't get out of the German's way. (Of course a big GAR does very well in Leningrad, where it never wants to move.)

I suspect that USSR has won the '40 garrison race. And USSR can not win the '41 race with the break the pact optional in play. So, I think, that there is no need for cheap garrison units in the West. Units best used for a 41 or even a 42 Barbarossa should be priority along with keeping Japan out should be priority.

BTW. Maybe USSR should delay building fighters until better versions are in the pool.
warspite1

I don't intend building many (if any more at all) - I just want to ensure I am adequately covered if Germany decides to get silly in Finland.



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/28/2016 2:55:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

I spent 1 oil From Libreville last turn.

Libreville is the Free French capital. It is fairly safe from German, Italian, and Japanese interference.

Syria, on the other hand, is not as secure. While Syria, currently is under no threat, it might quickly come under threat. Especially if Gibraltar is lost.

In Syria France gets a new oil every turn (as long as things do not change). Getting a new oil to Libreville uses up several convoy points.

Having oil on several locations can be an advantage since there might be occasions when a unit might not be able to trace to one oil. Then it might be able to trace to another unit.

Hence I propose that you use up the oil in Syria instead of the one in Libreville.
warspite1

If I use Syrian oil I cannot reorganise all the units - which seems a bit of a waste.


That would indeed be a waste. I'll take a look later on and see if I can fix that.
warspite1

Yes, I've double checked and the program will allow the Damascus oil to be used to reorganise the units in Syria and Lamotte-Picquet (in Australia) only.

As far as I can tell there is an uninterrupted convoy route between Damascus and Senegal/Morrocco/Gabon just as there is between Damascus and Australia.

Interestingly perhaps the Libreville oil can be used to organise the convoy in Beirut (Syria) but not the one in Tripoli just one hex north.

Edit: Hold the phone - is this perhaps something to do with "no more than 5 units can trace a path to the same oil resource".

The French have 10 ships + 4 convoys. Well in that case how can the Libreville oil reorganise all units?

Ah I see that because we are using SiF the ships count as 0.5 of a unit and the convoys 0.25.

So if I click on a unit that has both oil showing in the oil source location box and then highlight Damascus - all units reorganise.

If I do the same with the Libreville oil (note I use Lamotte-Picquet for this) - it works too and all are reorganised.

So the issue comes if I click on another unit - one that doesn't show both oil sources - e.g. Strasbourg then two units get left out and remain disorganised.

[image]local://upfiles/28156/402D6DE21A664B869BC6A267CE62EB16.jpg[/image]



Courtenay -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/28/2016 4:04:13 PM)

This is an example of a known bug that no one has yet figured out. Some oil resources are unable to reorganize units that they should be able to, and, to my knowledge, no one knows why.

The Libreville and the Syrian oil should both be able to reorganize the same units. Either should be able to reorganize all but .2 worth of oil units, with the remaining .2 coming from the other, and not being expended. I would just use the Libreville oil, and tell the other side that you actually used the Syrian oil. If it turns out to ever make a difference, have someone with a debug tool reposition the oil.



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/28/2016 4:31:31 PM)

As I said, there is no need. I can get all ships to reorganise using the one oil. It just means that I have to click on the right ship before pressing reorganise. That I found this was total luck - my initial decision was to accept that the program was right and either use both oil (not recommended) or leave a couple of units disorganised (not ideal).



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/28/2016 5:00:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

As I said, there is no need. I can get all ships to reorganise using the one oil. It just means that I have to click on the right ship before pressing reorganise. That I found this was total luck - my initial decision was to accept that the program was right and either use both oil (not recommended) or leave a couple of units disorganised (not ideal).
warspite1

Except there is a need because in practice - when following the turn through - clicking on Lamotte-Picquet and clicking specifically on the Syrian oil ...... and the program uses the African oil.



warspite1 -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/28/2016 5:05:36 PM)

With this in mind we will need to ensure that we garrison Syria ASAP me thinks.



Orm -> RE: TOP SECRET ORMSTER + WARSPITE ONLY (5/28/2016 5:09:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

With this in mind we will need to ensure that we garrison Syria ASAP me thinks.

The Delhi Militia should be able to guard the port. But the Egypt-Syria area is way to lightly defended.

And now Algeria needs units as well.



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