RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (Full Version)

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Stelteck -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/15/2016 5:24:27 PM)

Turn 16 : 02 October 1941

They shall not pass !!
[image]http://verdun-meuse.fr/images/pages/mort_homme-2.jpg[/image]

The battle of Verdun Go On !! Sorry, i mean moscow.....

In the north, evil forces grind their way south, with considerable forces but upon heavy resistances.

German supply in this spearhead come from Kalinin, which is quite complicated and explain that the luftwaffe try to drop supplies and ammunitions to troops inside the tube.

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Pelton/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202016-10-15%2017.01.06.jpg[/image]

In the south, panzers rushed in plain to the Oka rivers, and try to cross it, but were stopped by an undertrained and poorly equiped rifle division.

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Pelton/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202016-10-15%2017.12.00.jpg[/image]

New heroes of the soviet union are born !!!! The 351 rifle division !!!

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Pelton/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202016-10-15%2017.12.19.jpg[/image]

Still despite the fight, moscow is still connected to the rail network, by the sacred line !!!!

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Pelton/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202016-10-15%2017.08.28.jpg[/image]

This turn i will counter attack the advanced motorized ennemy spearhead with all i got.

Fighting heat up also near voronev where i have some troops, but no enough... Not nearly enough. And the ennemy have now some panzers.

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Pelton/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202016-10-15%2017.06.04.jpg[/image]

Current looses so far :

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Pelton/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202016-10-15%2017.10.32.jpg[/image]

And now... The Weather report !!!!!

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Pelton/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202016-10-15%2016.57.59.jpg[/image]

[&o][&o][&o]

If this report is accurate, next turn the moscow and voronev Area will be covered by mud and rain. Offensive operation will not be possible.
Then, i will enter the mud season still the middle of november !!
It is very, very good news. But can i believe the weather report ?

MUD PLEASE !!!!

[&o][&o]



Stelteck -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/15/2016 10:11:18 PM)

It is funny when i save the game then reload it to finish it later, i have additional information displayed in ennemy logs :
The range to railway.
[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Pelton/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202016-10-15%2020.27.40.jpg[/image]


It is not displayed the first time i open the turn.




Icier -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/15/2016 11:56:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

It is funny when i save the game then reload it to finish it later, i have additional information displayed in ennemy logs :
The range to railway.
[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Pelton/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202016-10-15%2020.27.40.jpg[/image]


It is not displayed the first time i open the turn.



what did you hit to get that report?



chaos45 -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/16/2016 3:50:20 AM)

situation looks dire but if you get mud next turn it could save moscow, good luck



M60A3TTS -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/16/2016 6:28:37 AM)

Make sure the VVS is pounding any unit he doesn't have entrenched. Every tac bomber should be in the Moscow sector. You appear to have a few units to the west and southwest of Moscow that you can afford to move east.



Stelteck -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/16/2016 7:34:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ice


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

It is funny when i save the game then reload it to finish it later, i have additional information displayed in ennemy logs :
The range to railway.
[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Pelton/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202016-10-15%2020.27.40.jpg[/image]


It is not displayed the first time i open the turn.



what did you hit to get that report?


Nothing.
To get that report. I load the turn. Do whatever i want, then save it online (not finished).
Next time i reload the turn, i will have this information displayed when i put the mouse over an ennemy unit.
This information was not here previously for ennemy units. It was only available for my units.



STEF78 -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/16/2016 11:02:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

Turn 16 : 02 October 1941

And now... The Weather report !!!!!

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Pelton/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202016-10-15%2016.57.59.jpg[/image]

[&o][&o][&o]

If this report is accurate, next turn the moscow and voronev Area will be covered by mud and rain. Offensive operation will not be possible.
Then, i will enter the mud season still the middle of november !!
It is very, very good news. But can i believe the weather report ?

MUD PLEASE !!!!

[&o][&o]

Be careful, usually turn 17 is clear weather.... but I hope you will get mud



BK6583 -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/16/2016 10:08:20 PM)

quote:

For encercled troops, i know pelton usually keep them alive to prevent them for returning, so i tried to stick them like glue to panzers in hope to got them some hasty attacks and maybe hamper supply.


Pelton,

I'm still learning this game and was intrigued by the above quote. Can you explain why? I always try to wipe out isolated Russians to keep the German divisions moving east.



EwaldvonKleist -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/16/2016 10:22:36 PM)

The idea behind this is: If a division is destroyed, it returns a few turns later as a reinforcement (but as an shell with 50 men or so). If you keep Soviet divisions alive at a place where they are no harm, your opponent get less empty shells and can't defend in depth that well or has to buy more divisions with Admin Point which are always short for the early war Soviet player.

@Stelteck: THe problem is that he must not get even one hex closer to the railway or it will stop working as one (will only reduce the MPs for the supply calculation). So you really have no buffer.
A heroic stand of the 351st division Stelteck!



Stelteck -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/16/2016 10:29:21 PM)

Pelton shall not be here [:D]

Troops that you destroy return some weeks after as empty shell. ("troops are reorganizing").

So some players try to keep alive the soviet troops trapped in the initial opening as long as possible in order to prevent them for returning too soon. It can be done by using second line divisions such as security to maintain the trap. (Of course, it shall not stop good german infantry to move forward).

Some soviet player like me then try to suicide the divisions as soon as possible by attacking instead of trying to maintain the perimeter.



EwaldvonKleist -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/16/2016 10:34:38 PM)

PS: Mind the edit in my post Stelteck.
The window showing the distance to the rail for enemy hexagons is really mysterious. In some cases it shows up, in some not.



Stelteck -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/20/2016 6:11:17 PM)

No news of new turn yet. The suspens is huge !!!!!



BK6583 -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/20/2016 9:39:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

Pelton shall not be here [:D]

Troops that you destroy return some weeks after as empty shell. ("troops are reorganizing").

So some players try to keep alive the soviet troops trapped in the initial opening as long as possible in order to prevent them for returning too soon. It can be done by using second line divisions such as security to maintain the trap. (Of course, it shall not stop good german infantry to move forward).

Some soviet player like me then try to suicide the divisions as soon as possible by attacking instead of trying to maintain the perimeter.


Ok - To follow up I'm on T2 as the Germans playing the 41-45 campaign first time. So I guess I leave a light screen around the pocket and eventually the Russians trapped there will surrender? Or at some point am I going to have to send in some combat units and clean them out?



Stelteck -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/21/2016 8:02:04 AM)

quote:


Ok - To follow up I'm on T2 as the Germans playing the 41-45 campaign first time. So I guess I leave a light screen around the pocket and eventually the Russians trapped there will surrender? Or at some point am I going to have to send in some combat units and clean them out?


The units inside the pocket will get weaker and weaker. If you do not need the troops use to keep the pocket, you can keep soviet units here for a while.
They will still probably not surrender if they can get supply from stockpiles in cities or things like that.
you will have to clear the pocket at a moment, but no hurry.



ericv -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/21/2016 9:43:17 AM)

The german tactic of not attacking encircled soviet units can easily be thwarted by mass attacking with the encircled soviet units. the majority of the encircled soviet units will reach a CV of 0 after one attack and autosurrender next turn. Nothing GHC can do about that. A couple of hardy soviet units will take a couple of turns.



821Bobo -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/21/2016 10:49:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ericv

The german tactic of not attacking encircled soviet units can easily be thwarted by mass attacking with the encircled soviet units. the majority of the encircled soviet units will reach a CV of 0 after one attack and autosurrender next turn. Nothing GHC can do about that. A couple of hardy soviet units will take a couple of turns.


This has another consequence in boosting German morale. Last thing that Soviet want to see is many 80+ morale Inf. divisions in 42.



Stelteck -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/21/2016 8:32:44 PM)

Turn 17 : 09 october 1941

My glorious communist scientist were right !!! Time of rain is upon us !!!!!!

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Pelton/aMotorcycle_001.jpg[/image]

It is very good because next turn, i will really be in rain season, so there is a high chance to have rain until mid november.

After that, i will probably have around 3 turns of gentle snow, before the blizzard !!!

Due to mud, situation is frozen, and i hope german troops in the north spearhead will have problem to get supply by truck though the mud.

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Pelton/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202016-10-21%2020.57.26.jpg[/image]

Same thing at voronev :

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Pelton/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202016-10-21%2020.57.38.jpg[/image]

So, the immediate short term gain of some turns of mud :

- I will be able to evacuate all industry of moscow.
- I will be able to refit depleted divisions and train them a little.
- New renforcements will come.
But, i will not be able to dig much as digging in mud is not easy.

Still, i'am not sūre to keep moscow this year yet as i probably have to defend the area 3 to 5 more turns until the end of the year.

But, blizzard is coming. My opponent usually retreat to defensive position to prepare to the winter (After having taken all its objectives).
If the german commit to much in the hope of taking moscow just before the deadline, he could be a bad position for the winter.

The winter is not so dangerous for german as we play mild winter and i do not have the soviet attack bonus.

But i will do my best and prepare a massive offensive against the ennemy spearhead near moscow as soon as the blizzard appear !!!

I'am building a third elite army to join the 50st and 51st qualified for offensive operation.

I'am hoping for new cavalry corps too that i can built starting from december.



Dinglir -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/21/2016 9:06:21 PM)

For comparison purposes, what are the Order of Battles for Soviet and Germany (men, guns, armor and air)?

You really have taken on a challenge if you play Pelton with both mild winter and no bonus.



Stelteck -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/21/2016 9:32:51 PM)

First, i have to report an heroic deed !!

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Pelton/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202016-10-21%2022.20.29.jpg[/image]

After close analysis, i notice that a partisan bataillon have managed to cut the entire north ennemy spearhead around moscow !!!
These divisions now have epic MP cost to reach railroad and supply !!
Glory to partisan !!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhq-s15F88g

Now, the situation logs :
[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Pelton/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202016-10-21%2022.22.21.jpg[/image]

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Pelton/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202016-10-21%2022.22.34.jpg[/image]

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Pelton/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202016-10-21%2022.22.39.jpg[/image]

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Pelton/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202016-10-21%2022.22.46.jpg[/image]

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Pelton/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202016-10-21%2022.25.54.jpg[/image]





chaos45 -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/21/2016 10:19:25 PM)

You lost alot of heavy industry if that number is right. Long run that low a number could hurt. Because if I remember right its something like 170-180 is required to fully supply an 8M man Soviet army.

You many end up needing to watch your supply count and actually spend AP to lower production on some elements to save supply....would just keep an eye on your supply stock piles with your heavy that low going forward.



timmyab -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/21/2016 10:29:46 PM)

Interesting situation North of Moscow. You've done well to make a fight of it.
I'm a caucious type so I would be thinking seriously about backing out of that salient if I was Pelton.
The German position is probably strong enough to win in 42 without any need for heroics.




Dinglir -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/21/2016 10:40:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: timmyab
I'm a caucious type so I would be thinking seriously about backing out of that salient if I was Pelton.


A good question, what will Pelton do?

My guess is that he will stay put during mud and then analyze on the first snow turn, what he can do before the blizzard.

1) Encircle Moscow and all the troops there. That would be a disaster for the Soviets, but it doesn't seem likely Pelton will be able to do this.

2) Cut the railroad. Still a possibility, especially as the Soviets do not have a +1 Attack modifier. If he can cut the line, he can spend the next few turns watching the Soviets spending a lot of trucks resupplying the divisions at Moscow, while he himself pulls the panzers back to safety.

3) Pull back his Panzers. If he can not take offensive action, he can start pulling back his panzers without to much risk.

Against me (and a +1 Attack option) he did leave his Panzers at the front outside Voronezh (probably hoping to take the city). When on the first snow turn he realized my defenses were to strong, he started pulling out the Panzers.

My fingers are crossed for you Stelteck. Keep going.



Stelteck -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/21/2016 11:25:57 PM)

Moscow will soon be empty of industry, so i can loose it, but not in 1941 as it would trigger the autovictory condition. (As voronev is lightly defended and quite doomed).
Even if moscow is encercled, i will need to fight for the pocket, hoping to restore line in winter.

I'am not very worry of the lack of heavy industry situation, as it is:
- A long term issue. If i'am still alive at the time all good.
- I still can cut planes or fortification production in late war to save supply.
It is a bet. We will see.

I received currently tons of light infantry brigades and i'am currently trying to built a potemkin / looks like real-front in others part of soviet russia, like stalingrad, the caucasus, etc....
But all guards troops, siberian divisions from east and remaining elite troops are preparing to attack around moscow.




chaos45 -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/22/2016 1:29:32 AM)

I honestly dont think he will cut off moscow at this point. You could save yourself alot of routing units by arranging your defense better esp right before mud ends. As the way you are set up now he will rout any stack he hits, since you arent leaving any retreat space.

Mud should lower his supply deliveries and even when it goes to snow he will have same issue.....so at this point with how strong moscow looks I think you may be safe. An honestly all you need is a couple more divisions at Vorozneh before mud ends to save it.

German CV seems to drop off abit once mud sets in and then even goes to snow, and supplies esp...not to mention that once blizzard hits his supplies drop off even more....so any units that burn up all their supply load right before blizzard are hurt even worse once blizzard hits.



Stelteck -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/22/2016 8:44:35 AM)

One question i have each turn also, does it worth it to attack even if there is no chance of winning ?

I have the opportunity to attack ennemy tops divisions in the spearhead to lower their ammunition. It is effective their ennemy go to red.
But the attacking units take heavy looses and the ennemy divisions not so much.

I do not know if it could be effective.

Did unit that do nothing consume a lot of supply ? Or they have to fight to use it ? I would like to increase the problem of supplying ennemy troops.




chaos45 -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/22/2016 2:29:01 PM)

you can force them to burn off supply and ammunition. They do burn a % of their supplies each turn even when you dont attack just to maintain the unit.

however be very careful esp in 1941/1942 using soaking attacks as the Soviets. As any units you attack with and fail will be very weak for possible German counterattacks. As your units will burn off ammunition/supply, usually take alot of damaged elements you dont repair as well due to lower experience, and you will most likely lose morale.

Air strikes on the lead units should be every turn, this will force them to burn off some ammunition to AA fire, as well it will cause damaged elements which may not repair. Even if his air units fly to intercept thats just more supply those airbases are being required to pull from hopefully abit distant rail heads.

Keep in mind the printed CV shown on the map isnt accurate. The more you play the more you will understand this. It shows more or less what the units capabilities are, but commander rolls, supply, and damaged unit attrition will end up modifying the ending combat CV to determine who wins the actual battle. Which with good air strikes, good soviet commander rolls, and good allocation of support units from higher Soviet commands can sometimes give the Soviets a win even if the initial CV looks closer to equal.

So alot is in how you prepare the attack and which soviet commanders are in charge and how many support elements your army commanders might be able to add from army HQs to the battle. Takes some experience to judge this.



Stelteck -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/22/2016 4:20:22 PM)

Thanks for the tips.
It is true that it is quite hard to estimage how many troops are enough troops when you need to counter attack german units. Especially if trying loosing would put you in very bad position the next turn.



Stelteck -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/23/2016 7:45:07 PM)

Turn 18 : 16 October 1641

Mud today. Probable mud next turn. Cheer !!!

Situation did not changed.

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Pelton/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202016-10-23%2020.04.40.jpg[/image]

The ennemy is using Junker-52 to ressuply the troops inside, using a small airport here. My fighters tried to stop them but did not found the ennemy in the rain. So i guess the ressuplying is quite effective.

The panzer division circle in red are fully fuelled and ressuplied elite troops that the german put there just before the rain. They are ready to attack as soon as the weather get better and it is not good news.
Others ennemy troops are low on fuel.

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Pelton/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202016-10-23%2020.26.13.jpg[/image]

This is my renforcement list. Currently i receive a tons of infantry brigades with very low combat values. Still they can be usefull to man the quiet parts of my fronts.

Currently, i'am sending renforcement to voronev to try to hold it with moscow.

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Pelton/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202016-10-23%2020.29.45.jpg[/image]

Last, the victory points. It is not my main center of attention, but this scenario is quite interesting as you gain victory points by doing things other time. For example, holding a city get a small amount each turn you own it.
Losses are also important. And it is interesting to note that the german invader worth 4 mores than the soviet worker.




Stelteck -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/23/2016 9:03:22 PM)

Hhooo, after analysis, it looks like my partisan had gone wild another time !!!

This time, the line is cut so far that some german troops are isolated and completely out of supply.

So i think i will try to attack a little and see what is happening....

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Pelton/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202016-10-23%2021.59.06.jpg[/image]

Some people also ask me what is happening in the south and why i do not show anything.

The answer is simple, nothing is happening in the south. Operation are completely stopped. My second rate brigades face second rate german troops, with no combat.



Stelteck -> RE: Another World : AAR Soviet Stelteck Vs German Pelton (No Pelton Zone) (10/25/2016 7:56:48 PM)

Turn 19 : 23 October 1941
Still mud in the center. Very good.
Some parts of south in the snow.

The german is struggling to repair the attacks of my terminator partisans and so many german troops are yet isolated. I did some attacks last turn which failed of course in mud but i only got as casualties as my opponents. Isolated units are reluctant to use ammo, and on my side i have plenty of shells.

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Pelton/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202016-10-25%2019.49.15.jpg[/image]

In crimea, where the snow allow fighting, my oponent did some very serious attempt to break the line, using some french very good german divisions that replaced the romanians.

Crimea is defended by a complete army, the coastal army. This army is quite good in fact.

Still the attack fail, but my fortifications have been destroyed so they may not hold a long time now.
I cannot send more troops there but i will put a better general and some elite supports units to this army.

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Pelton/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202016-10-25%2019.45.52.jpg[/image]

Nothing happens now in stalingrad and caucasus. It is a good thing as the defense is really low. I have to do something about it.

[image]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64073834/WITE%20Pelton/Capture%20d%27%C3%A9cran%202016-10-25%2019.47.04.jpg[/image]





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