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ORIGINAL: Gandalf

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ORIGINAL: HansBolter

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ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

Must...not...reply.

Opinions shouldn't be solicited if one isn't prepared to hear and accept them. [8D]

I do have to admire your restraint LST. [;)]

No restraint here... LOL

Not a matter of cake and eat it too. What's so difficult about that expectation? I guess the Japanese understood that Pearl Harbor was the only legitimate surprise piece of cake in the whole pacific theatre. NOT!

According to the Infamy Speech.

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Mr. Vice President, Mr. Speaker, members of the Senate and the House of Representatives:

Yesterday, December 7th, 1941 - a date which will live in infamy - the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan.

The United States was at peace with that nation, and, at the solicitation of Japan, was still in conversation with its government and its Emperor looking toward the maintenance of peace in the Pacific.

Indeed, one hour after Japanese air squadrons had commenced bombing in the American island of Oahu, the Japanese Ambassador to the United States and his colleague delivered to our Secretary of State a formal reply to a recent American message. And, while this reply stated that it seemed useless to continue the existing diplomatic negotiations, it contained no threat or hint of war or of armed attack.

It will be recorded that the distance of Hawaii from Japan makes it obvious that the attack was deliberately planned many days or even weeks ago. During the intervening time the Japanese Government has deliberately sought to deceive the United States by false statements and expressions of hope for continued peace.

The attack yesterday on the Hawaiian Islands has caused severe damage to American naval and military forces. I regret to tell you that very many American lives have been lost. In addition, American ships have been reported torpedoed on the high seas between San Francisco and Honolulu.

Yesterday the Japanese Government also launched an attack against Malaya.
Last night Japanese forces attacked Hong Kong.
Last night Japanese forces attacked Guam.
Last night Japanese forces attacked the Philippine Islands.
Last night the Japanese attacked Wake Island.
And this morning the Japanese attacked Midway Island.

Japan has therefore undertaken a surprise offensive extending throughout the Pacific area. The facts of yesterday and today speak for themselves. The people of the United States have already formed their opinions and well understand the implications to the very life and safety of our nation.

As Commander-in-Chief of the Army and Navy I have directed that all measures be taken for our defense, that always will our whole nation remember the character of the onslaught against us.

No matter how long it may take us to overcome this premeditated invasion, the American people, in their righteous might, will win through to absolute victory.

I believe that I interpret the will of the Congress and of the people when I assert that we will not only defend ourselves to the uttermost but will make it very certain that this form of treachery shall never again endanger us.

Hostilities exist. There is no blinking at the fact that our people, our territory and our interests are in grave danger.

With confidence in our armed forces, with the unbounding determination of our people, we will gain the inevitable triumph. So help us God.

I ask that the Congress declare that since the unprovoked and dastardly attack by Japan on Sunday, December 7th, 1941, a state of war has existed between the United States and the Japanese Empire.

President Franklin D. Roosevelt - December 8, 1941

It appears that there was a whole lot of historical cake eating going on by the Japanese! [:D]

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ORIGINAL: HansBolter

What matters is the act of engaging in negotiations to establish a rule set for a match.
When negotiating one needs to offer 'gives' for each 'take'.
You want the 'take" of a free hand to attack anywhere without offering a 'give' for what you're taking.
My starting point for the negotiation is simply 'the give you need to offer for the take you want is losing surprise'.
Its a starting point for the negotiation, just as 'I want to be free to attack anywhere' is a staring point in the negotiation.

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ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

Has anyone ever seen a full-scale "Invade Hawaiian Islands gambit" in a PBEM that went a significant distance and by competent players? Could be interesting.

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ORIGINAL: Anachro

Lowpe took it in his game with Joc. Then he tried to take the West Coast too...

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ORIGINAL: Anachro

Invading the WC can trigger emergency reinforcements. Yes.

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ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

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ORIGINAL: Anachro

Invading the WC can trigger emergency reinforcements. Yes.

Up to and including Victoria and Vancouver, which is why the Japanese like to capture Coal Harbour on northern Vancouver Island - no reinforcements triggered and they can start Strat Bombing industries.

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ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

John III took the Hawaiian Islands in his current game with NYGiants (the game is currently suspended, but I think they plan to resume).

My impression of what John did was that he took Hawaii just for the sake of taking Hawaii. In doing so, he knocked out a lot of American ships at low cost (IIRC) to his own forces. But this wasn't part of a "bigger plan." IE, it wasn't the first step towards a concerted plan. Some of us chimed in, hoping to persuade John to look at it as part of a bigger plan, but he was content to shift his focus elsewhere in a kind of piecemeal approach.

Lowpe (or was it a predecessor before Jeff came aboard) took Hawaii against Jocke at high cost. Lowpe did have a vision for using that as a springboard, but things didn't work out.

I am firmly of the opinion that a Japanese player can use Hawaii as a springboard to an auto victory attack against the West Coast. But that player has to be very good and experienced, and the timing has to be right. The possibilities were long ago discussed in very old threads. I recall that Alfred and Bullwinkle were two active participants in the discussion. It was a frightening prospect to an Allied player. But I don't think any IJ player has proceeded along that course of action. I think John III had a chance (his conquest of Hawaii came early enough and at low enough cost to allow him to springboard against West Coast). But it will happen one of these days.