RE: Four Seasons with Models (Full Version)

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LJBurstyn -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (8/29/2017 9:19:30 PM)

I think tech support helped get my email attachment to you...but not the accompanied message. The test Speedconnect did was for the attachment only. Which is why the message only said SpeedConnect Test. But of course, please confirm you got the attachment.



Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (8/31/2017 5:30:19 AM)

So, I think most of the glitches are out. I have uploaded v.1.17. This fixes the issue that LJBurstyn had with the carrier fighters. This was caused by a conflict between the ground-support improvements and carrier fighters. So that after you research the ground-support improvement tech, the carrier fighter alteration became inactive.

I also made some tweaks to naval units that I hope will improve game play.
1. Hitpoints for cargo ships from 500 -> 200. I ambushed 8 transports with a BB, CA and 4 DD, and only sank 2 transports. This seems too low. I also nailed it with four dive bombers, and only sank one.
2. Created a new ship type: Escort Ship (and surface ship to Capital Ship). I did this to distinguish destroyers in combat with subs.
3. made some uniform changes in hitpoints overall to ships.

There is also a quirk in the models that I cannot fix as I think it is an issue with the core system. It is not a big deal, and not likely to come up in an actual game, but can. Normally, if you create a model, it can be altered until it is produced. If you create the model, then research an improvement, then implement the improvement, you cannot apply an alteration. This is true for tank models too. If you reverse the order, research the improvement, then create the model, you can apply the alteration (note that the new model will have the improvement). Like I said, it is not something that is likely to happen since you have to decide to do the improvement after creating the model in the same turn. Or rather before producing the model.



LJBurstyn -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/1/2017 3:03:37 PM)

How do I get the new escort ship? It seems not to appear in my version of 117? Do I need to research something?

Still getting names repeated several times for different plane and armor types.

The fighter-bomber alteration does not generate a new type in the TOE list...so you cannot specify it be used in units. Also the FB is put into fighter TOE's since it is still considered a fighter.

Artillery II auto upgrades to Artillery III...so you cannot use auto upgrade after you research Artillery III....this is inconvenient when you want to upgrade a large number of units quickly (like Rifle III to Rifle IV in many units at the same time--rather than a unit at a time).



Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/1/2017 6:32:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LJBurstyn

How do I get the new escort ship? It seems not to appear in my version of 117? Do I need to research something?


These are just destroyers and light cruisers. It is a category for combat stats, like I did with anti-tank units. It was useful to separate them from surface ships so that I modify the submarine power points against them. The way it was subs had the same power against them as capital ships, and, well, if you want subs to be dangerous to the larger ships, they would be downright deadly to destroyers, which I felt wasn't right. So, a new combat category made sense.

quote:


Still getting names repeated several times for different plane and armor types.

The names are generated randomly, and apparently aren't checked for repeat. I can't control this. It can only be fixed by adding names and reducing the probability it gets picked.

quote:


The fighter-bomber alteration does not generate a new type in the TOE list...so you cannot specify it be used in units. Also the FB is put into fighter TOE's since it is still considered a fighter.

Good point. It should be maid into its own reinforcement type.

quote:


Artillery II auto upgrades to Artillery III...so you cannot use auto upgrade after you research Artillery III....this is inconvenient when you want to upgrade a large number of units quickly (like Rifle III to Rifle IV in many units at the same time--rather than a unit at a time).

I kind of did this deliberately. The reasoning was that I was looking at the higher artillery SFTs as being heavier artillery. More firepower, but also heavy, and not transportable by horses. I chose Artillery II as the break point. Artillery I and II have weight 2, while Artillery II and IV have 3 and 4, and must be pulled by trucks. This was meant as a contrast between US and German and Russia, where the latter two used a lot of horses. Thus, the idea was to make management of artillery something to think about. But, there are some units where you might want to mobilize with horses (mountain infantry or you don't have enough trucks), so you would like to keep Artillery II in those units. But, at the same time, you might want to update all the Artillery II in a given unit. This could also be accomplished with a Heavy Artillery SFT. But, since the artillery units all have a range of one and are embedded in the core division units, I didn't want to take up too much SFT space, since we can only have 8 in a unit. Effectively, I admit these act this way. Except you can upgrade the lighter to heavier if you want to. The point being tht you might have a lot of lighter artillery that you can't upgrade to heavier.




Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/1/2017 6:33:11 PM)

I forgot to say that I won't be able to do much until Tuesday as I have a visitor over the holiday weekend.



LJBurstyn -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/1/2017 10:56:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ormand


quote:

ORIGINAL: LJBurstyn

How do I get the new escort ship? It seems not to appear in my version of 117? Do I need to research something?


These are just destroyers and light cruisers. It is a category for combat stats, like I did with anti-tank units. It was useful to separate them from surface ships so that I modify the submarine power points against them. The way it was subs had the same power against them as capital ships, and, well, if you want subs to be dangerous to the larger ships, they would be downright deadly to destroyers, which I felt wasn't right. So, a new combat category made sense.


IS this a new SFT or just an idea to combine Destroyers and Light Cruisers into one unit but with separate SFT's?.
Oh?! I think I understand now. BTW subs were real good against destroyers if they managed to hit them as one torpedo was usually enough to sink a destroyer. In fact a good hit right under the keel of a Battleship would sink it but you needed good firing triggers to make that work and we (and the Germans) did not have those devices until much later in the war.


quote:

quote:


Artillery II auto upgrades to Artillery III...so you cannot use auto upgrade after you research Artillery III....this is inconvenient when you want to upgrade a large number of units quickly (like Rifle III to Rifle IV in many units at the same time--rather than a unit at a time).

I kind of did this deliberately. The reasoning was that I was looking at the higher artillery SFTs as being heavier artillery. More firepower, but also heavy, and not transportable by horses. I chose Artillery II as the break point. Artillery I and II have weight 2, while Artillery II and IV have 3 and 4, and must be pulled by trucks. This was meant as a contrast between US and German and Russia, where the latter two used a lot of horses. Thus, the idea was to make management of artillery something to think about. But, there are some units where you might want to mobilize with horses (mountain infantry or you don't have enough trucks), so you would like to keep Artillery II in those units. But, at the same time, you might want to update all the Artillery II in a given unit. This could also be accomplished with a Heavy Artillery SFT. But, since the artillery units all have a range of one and are embedded in the core division units, I didn't want to take up too much SFT space, since we can only have 8 in a unit. Effectively, I admit these act this way. Except you can upgrade the lighter to heavier if you want to. The point being tht you might have a lot of lighter artillery that you can't upgrade to heavier.




I would prefer a designated Heavy Artillery SFT. As I would not combine Heavy and Regular Artillery into a Infantry Division. Heavy Artillery would be reserved for Artillery only units. Does the Self Propelled Artillery have the same brutal counter battery fire as the regular artillery? My regular OOB has Heavy Artillery for Corp Artillery units and Self-Propelled Artillery for Army Artillery units.

Enjoy your company for the holiday...see ya when you get back to the "grind"...



LJBurstyn -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/4/2017 1:26:56 PM)

I am having some crash issues. It always happens at the same time. I cut off the only enemy road leading from one land mass to another. During the AI turn the game crashes when the AI is transferring units.

The game does not crash as long as the only enemy road leading from one land mass to another enemy controlled area is not captured by my units.



ernieschwitz -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/4/2017 2:12:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LJBurstyn

I am having some crash issues. It always happens at the same time. I cut off the only enemy road leading from one land mass to another. During the AI turn the game crashes when the AI is transferring units.

The game does not crash as long as the only enemy road leading from one land mass to another enemy controlled area is not captured by my units.


Sounds like something Vic might want to hear about...



Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/4/2017 4:33:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LJBurstyn

I am having some crash issues. It always happens at the same time. I cut off the only enemy road leading from one land mass to another. During the AI turn the game crashes when the AI is transferring units.

The game does not crash as long as the only enemy road leading from one land mass to another enemy controlled area is not captured by my units.


I agree. This sounds like something beyond my control. I ran into a similar problem just after the new 227 release. If you want, you can send me the file, and I can e-mail it, or possibly just e-mail Vic.



LJBurstyn -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/5/2017 2:38:36 PM)

I'll email Vic on the crash issue.

SO far except for the artillery issue I like the 1.17 version.



Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/8/2017 5:21:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LJBurstyn

I'll email Vic on the crash issue.

SO far except for the artillery issue I like the 1.17 version (10:15 PDT).


Thanks for all your constructive feedback!!!!!

I've uploaded a new version v1.1.20. There are several relatively fixes and changes:

1. I made a Fighter Bomber reinforcement type for when you apply the ground-support alteration. Now, FB can be assigned to a TOE.
2. I converted the artillery back to the way they were. Namely all with weight=2 and Artillery III blocks Artillery II.
3. Set rivers to be major and regular for random games, instead of regular and minor.
4. Expanded tracked landing vehicles. In addition to amphibious assaults, they are also now useful for river movement and combat. Their movement and combat penalties are 1/2 that for soft mobile vehicles. Also, I changed the research tree. It is now a research element requiring Halftrack I and Amphibious Assault Theory. There is also a 2nd level.
5. Some minor fixes to SFType stats that I missed in the last update.
6. Also, made some SFTypes not listed in the compare option, such as the Fighter concept, etc. Most model concepts, two pictures, and the dummy SFTypes used for reinforcement types in the TOE.



LJBurstyn -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/8/2017 1:56:51 PM)

I noticed when FB was upgraded it does not upgrade the FB elements...they don't upgrade as well as the fighter elements. This is for version 1.17.

Still would not mind a heavy artillery upgrade...with better stats than the regular artillery but that's up to you.

When were cluster shells developed...they proved deadly to concentrated and units in open terrain in Korea?

My test game with 1.17 has proved interesting so I am going to finish it.
But I will still test 1.20 at the same time.



LJBurstyn -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/9/2017 6:57:56 PM)

OK, testing 1.1.20 now.

Possible (Actual) Model Problem.
Disturbing results. In each case the upgraded Fighter Bomber is worse (except LVT) than the old Fighter-Bomber where the improvements were added first.

FB-1d is Fighter I with 4 improvements (each improvement). FB-2a is based on FB-1d and only has Fighter II upgrade attached.
Fighter Bomber Improvements Attack Values:
OLD UPgraded
Item FB-1d FB-2a
Artillery 58/68 46/48
Soft Mobile 58/68 46/48
Anti-Tank 38/38 20/22
LVT 36/36 40/44
Infantry 38/46 20/22

I am going to run a test and build a new fighter II than add all the improvement and then alter it's mission to Fighter-Bomber?

ACK--spacing commands did not work...



Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/9/2017 8:24:34 PM)

I looked into your earlier comment, and noticed that there is a little issue with the ground-support alteration and the increase armor alteration. In that the alteration isn't applied to the new model. I am fixing this now, with a few other things, and should have something later tonight. I have to go do some real work now.



LJBurstyn -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/10/2017 1:58:18 AM)

"Real work" ugh....I stopped doing that in 2005 when I retired. I figure work is a 4 letter word which should not be used around me....I'm a snowflake and I might get offended and tear up or burn down something (sarcasm--it's getting late here after a long day of computer surfing.).



Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/10/2017 5:16:12 AM)

OK, I have a new version v.1.1.22 on the site.
Changes:
1. Fix to Ground Support alteration for fighters when upgrading to new fighter level.
2. Some modifications to SFT hitpoints for armored vehicles.



LJBurstyn -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/11/2017 1:35:56 PM)

Testing 1.1.22.

Only issue so far is a new kind of error. When I hit compare the models don't show up as in list of comparable items?. Try this again later today to see if it was some kind of error on my part.



Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/11/2017 3:16:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LJBurstyn

Testing 1.1.22.

Only issue so far is a new kind of error. When I hit compare the models don't show up as in list of comparable items?. Try this again later today to see if it was some kind of error on my part.


Are there specific SFTypes that don't show, or all? I was actually using this in my tests for the fighter bomber and others, so for me it works. How things won't show is by changing the "Show in List" to false. I did this for some SFTypes. Such as the "model concepts". They are actually "shells" for the SFType, so their stats don't matter and may not be accurate even. Thus, it was better to take them out and only leave the standard SFType in. The same is for the Infantry models. There is a shell SFT in the list, but these are just to specify the reinforcement unit. They will not appear in the list until you make their model.

At any rate, some more specifics will help. As I said, the thing I could do to make them not show up is change that attribute, which I might have done wrong for a few.



LJBurstyn -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/11/2017 6:14:11 PM)

As far as I can tell no models show up...will review when I get more models done...few more turns of research are needed to get more models. But fighters and dive bombers did not show up in the list. Get back to you when I get a better look.

(EDIT follows:)
None of my models show up in the list (except those semi-models--SP Artillery, Mobile AA, SP Infantry Gun). None of the other infantry or aircraft or tank models show up.

(Edit 2 follows:)
I opened the game in edit mode and ALL my models had DontShowinList is set to TRUE.



Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/11/2017 8:21:42 PM)

OK, this is probably caused by making the concepts not in the list. The models likely inherit that attribute and don't show in the list. I will have to fix this. It isn't something I can set in my events, so it will mean that I have to leave the concepts in the list. The concepts should be equivalent to the first generation of the SFType.

You can do a compare your model to the base types in the model editor, but not against other models.



LJBurstyn -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/11/2017 9:17:20 PM)

NEW PROBLEM:::

Just popped up with my new aircraft models...NONE of them can FLY!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
They use rail and sea lift to move...other than that they cannot move.
WAIT: it's worse neither can the non-model aircraft???

Not sure if they could ever fly as I don't remember ever flying them.

EDIT:
Did some research. Original models and original (Type 1) planes could fly. Since I upgraded all aircraft to Upgraded Model II I don't know if the problem happens to them also. But none of the model II planes (and the corresponding Fighter II or Dive Bombers II) can fly. I will research the turn before I upgraded all my planes to Type II or Model II's...and only upgrade some of them. To see if it affects them as well as the upgraded models.



Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/12/2017 4:49:19 AM)

OK, that's strange.

I just uploaded v.1.1.23, which restores the compare capability for the models.
Also:
1. put woods terrain back into the list
2. took mortar iii out of the list.

As for not being able to fly. Could you send me your save file. I just did a test, and I see fighters I, II, and III all able to fly. Same for a dive bomber I, II. These were models.

One check is if you are using the storms, make sure that the base is not in a storm hex or that other places are not blocked by storms. What I checked was being able to move to another city. All these worked as intended. So, it must be something subtle.

But, send it to me and I'll try to see what might be happening. Unfortunately, I likely won't be able to figure it out until Thursday as I have to go to New Mexico tomorrow, and get back Wed night.



LJBurstyn -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/12/2017 4:12:26 PM)

This game I decided to not use storms because I think too much of the map is covered by storms.

This morning I checked to see if supply was the problem, but some of the units I cannot move are fully supplied and are receiving all they request.

I went back to a saved game where I could fly and implemented the upgrades more slowly (not all at once like in the game where the planes cannot fly) and so far no problems with flying the upgraded or other planes...????

I'll send you a copy...still having problems uploading so it may be a while until it successfully uploads.


Just discovered something interesting.....
As soon as I reassign one air unit to ANY other HQ all air units lose their ability to fly????

EDIT:
Hmmm. This time I just clicked on the next turn button did not change anything in the build area or advance any tech levels or create new HQ. Still start of next turn no planes will fly.

I sent an email to your comcast email and I got a response saying UNdeliverable?



Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/13/2017 1:54:59 PM)

I am still on travel, and will be back late tonight.

One thing though is that without storms but still using climate, the game reverts back to standard ATG climate rules. Namely no air operations in mud turns, i.e., Fall and Spring.



LJBurstyn -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/13/2017 11:07:15 PM)

NO air turns at all...I thought cities were exempt??? Well that explains it.

Is there some way to cut down the area covered in storms...on my maps it is over 50% of all the area is(are) having storms.



Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/14/2017 5:16:08 AM)

Most definitely. The probabilities are governed by Stringlist ID=141 (or #94 in the list). This gives a probability for storms in each season. The idea being that storms are more prominent in Fall and Spring. The way it works is that the overall probability for any given turn is Base + Random*CheckRandomPercent, where Base and Random are in the two columns, and CheckRandomPercent is an ATG function returning a number between 1-99. That is the rough chance for storms in the climate zone. For summer Base=0 and Random=30, so there shouldn't be too many. But, in Spring Base=20 and Random=50, and in the Fall, Base=30, and Random=70. So, the Fall is the stormiest. So, reducing either of these will lead to fewer. The idea was to let the Fall and Spring be naturally stormy and lead to the muddy terrains. There will be breaks in the storms, and you can do some operations. I'll have to play around with it to see what the best values are.



LJBurstyn -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/16/2017 2:26:39 AM)

Some odds and ends.

The jet fighter carrier alternate version does not seem to have a place in the TOE list.

Let's see if I understand the storms.
Summer Base 0 + Random 30 == Chance of storms 0-30%?
Spring Base 20 + Random 50 == Chance of storms 20-70%?
Fall Base 30 + Random 70 == Chance of storms 30-100%?
Winter UNKNOWN since you did not say...and I don't remember the Stringlist amounts.



Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/16/2017 4:24:53 PM)

Yes, I should make a reinforcement type for Jet Carrier Fighters.

As for storms, the winter probability is the same as spring, except that it is snow. The basic algorithm is that this is the probability of storm coverage in a weather zone. Each storm covers about 80 hexes, so the number of storms is the coverage/80. In general, actual storm coverage will be less since the centers of the storms are placed randomly in the zones (this means that they will also bleed out into other zones). Storms are placed randomly, and then radiate out 6 hexes, with the probability of the hex being a storm decreasing slightly along the radius.


Deserts also have a chance at storms, with a twist. The base chance is 40% less, the radius is 4 hexes, and there is a 60% chance that the storm is a haboob.



Ormand -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/17/2017 2:07:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LJBurstyn

The jet fighter carrier alternate version does not seem to have a place in the TOE list.



Also, the other fighter alterations were using the first model as the reinforcement type. I added "dummy" SFTypes to be the reinforcement type for all fighter alterations (and Dive Bomber as well).

v1.1.24 was uploaded at 19:07 PDT.EDIT: Sorry, I left out a step, uploaded new v1.1.24 at 9:46 PM PDT



LJBurstyn -> RE: Four Seasons with Models (9/20/2017 1:57:35 PM)

Artillery III still in list of TOE...if you upgrade your artillery to Artillery III, but don't upgrade your TOE it removes all the Artillery III from your units.

Researching another problem...my available RAW disappears quickly but I don't know why...I did not upgrade any resource area or build a factory or road or airfield..etc., did upgrade some SFT's to the latest but that should not decrease RAW...just supply...will watch it carefully to determine a cause.

EDIT: I think I found the problem. Upgrades are not the problem.
Strategic Bombers are listed as using NO fuel. They use RAW not oil.
Before 2 Strategic Bomber raid: OIL: 746621 RAW: 1283
After 2 Strategic Bomber raid: Oil: 746621 RAW: 1265
Or they used 18 RAW to conduct the raid. It was the only thing I did.



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