RE: 12 - Moscow Final thoughts

RE: 12 - Moscow Final thoughts (Full Version)

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M60A3TTS -> RE: 12 - Moscow Final thoughts (12/24/2016 3:26:31 PM)
Don't understand the point of forting cavalry at Sevastopol. Their inherent advantages of mobility are wasted there.

topeverest -> RE: 12 - Moscow Final thoughts (12/24/2016 10:53:11 PM)
appreciate the guidance - Was using them only as the were available. Had planned to switch them out with infantry. please don't hesitate to offer other good ideas. I am figuring it out as I go. quote: ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS Don't understand the point of forting cavalry at Sevastopol. Their inherent advantages of mobility are wasted there.

sillyflower -> RE: 12 - Moscow Final thoughts (12/25/2016 9:10:04 AM)
You still have far too much in the south compared to Moscow area. Moscow and its flanks should be stuffed with inf divs digging. Cavalry units are useless in that role.

topeverest -> Turn 13 Germans Reach Moscow (12/26/2016 6:27:53 PM)
Learning some hard lessons about the game here. 1. reduction of Leningrad continues. Might last another turn or two 2. Panzer ball pushes long distance and takes w Moscow, despite fortified regions reserve units woods and forts. I just don't know what to say about how I might have prevented such a thing from happening, but it has. I will have to plan to retake it in the winter counteroffensive. Only 2 more good weather turns, In any event, bad Russian turn, and one that reveals my weakness as a player.

topeverest -> Leningrad (12/26/2016 6:32:44 PM)
I have serious issues with how the game works relative to fortified regions and forts and isolation - but I cant do anything about it. here are the results. [image]local://upfiles/26803/6AD03C69A1934EF28ECCB99894032ED6.jpg[/image]

topeverest -> Moscow (12/26/2016 6:34:54 PM)
here is the picture. I will lose the entire city over the next two turns. I also will lose some of the industry. The enemy just exploded this past turn. Jokes on me. [image]local://upfiles/26803/7422F19E061F4911A0E90218342164D0.jpg[/image]

topeverest -> RE: Moscow (12/26/2016 6:42:33 PM)
ON the dimly bright side, I was able to retake a dozen hexes across the MLR theaters including a number strongly held armored units. None were easy. I will take that as lessons for the upcoming winter counteroffensive.

sillyflower -> RE: Moscow (12/26/2016 9:26:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: topeverest here is the picture. I will lose the entire city over the next two turns. I also will lose some of the industry. The enemy just exploded this past turn. Jokes on me. You need(ed) your best units defending Moscow not 1 CV ones

M60A3TTS -> RE: Moscow (12/26/2016 10:33:17 PM)
Common new guy mistake. You have to respect the ability of the Axis player to do this sort of thing with a HQ buildup.

Pionpion -> RE: Moscow (12/27/2016 8:16:55 AM)
A 1-unit buffer line just can't hold in front of a strong german push, especially with 5-6 armor units

topeverest -> Turn 14 - September 18, 1941 (12/29/2016 1:31:55 AM)
3 more good weather turns in all likelihood. Germans take Leningrad hex and remainder of garrison will fall next turn. Germans broaden the Moscow wedge, transferring troops into the wedge. Germans push on Orel, Kharkov and towards Stalino Russians push back orel attack successfully Russians pincer and isolate the entire attacking force going for Kharkov! Germans will get out of the pincer as I don't have enough troops there to capture the german units. hopefully this sends a powerful message to the enemy and will cause them to be less aggressive. Germans finally firmly across Dneper near dnetropvolsk and zaporryze. Russians hold reinforcements back to train for counteroffensive, and have decided that it is not possible to take back Moscow until the winter, so I wont be throwing troops away trying to do that.

topeverest -> leningrad (12/29/2016 1:37:07 AM)
That battle is over, and the enemy is obviously in the process of repositioning his forces [image]local://upfiles/26803/824C970943B8445A87577ABD1E3A5739.jpg[/image]

topeverest -> Moscow (12/29/2016 1:40:10 AM)
I opted not to press a bad situation. I took back a few easy hexes bombed all exposed units, including HQ's, and repositioned units to slow the enemy advance. I am hoping to keep the enemy to 5 hexes past Moscow. I would prefer a salient to pressure more that flat line. In any event this is the big winter focus area. The remaining fair weather turns will only be opportunistic counterattacks. 50 divisions off all types are still training in the rear and will be the first part of the Russian winter attac. [image]local://upfiles/26803/CF74A95FA8304C6588C8DB57DDB357DB.jpg[/image]

topeverest -> RE: Moscow (12/29/2016 1:02:44 PM)
This has been a common tactic of mine - as the enemy crosses a river - counterattack. On the approaches to Tula enemy crosses the Oka river, but not in sufficient strength to stay. Russians concentrate with local forces and re-secure the eastern banks of the oka river - and disperse for defensive operations. remember, I am playing under the idea there are three more good turns of weather and I want to minimize further loss of factories beyond those I will or have lost in Moscow and Minsc [image]local://upfiles/26803/EA2AC21068CD461489A07F695A4E46D8.jpg[/image]

topeverest -> Kharkov (12/29/2016 1:15:57 PM)
The Reds were most successful in at Kharkov. The Germans attacked into a mass of Russian units and made progress towards K. but they left a number of open hexes and were in the clear. I decided to do a swarm attack of the flanks of his wedge attack. it was broadly successful. most of a german army was pocketed! if I had a mobile resreve or about 10 more local unnits I could have sealed the pocket tight - making for a desperate german event. as it is he will break the pocket but it will cost him precious time. more importantly this is the fourth such time I have either pocketed or cut his los. I am hopping this gives him ponderous moments on his remaining clear turns. the reds aren't harmless to the axis. [image]local://upfiles/26803/A9E85C0BA6A941EEA367D7E8F2250780.jpg[/image]

GabrielBora -> RE: Kharkov (12/29/2016 2:21:30 PM)
The soviets keept about 80 divisions in reserve during bliZard: in game terms, if you have divisions ten points bellow national morale ,they should be striped from the fronts structure and keept under military districts and stavka until march : the units that are used durring the winter battles end up severly understrenght and morale gains are bellow expectations: A fresh 80 division reserve will help you restore the fronts staying power after the winter battles;

topeverest -> RE: Kharkov (12/29/2016 3:21:33 PM)
Thanks for the advice. I haven't extensively planned the Russian winter offensive yet. As you indicated, I don't know how many units will have good enough morale and support to warrant inclusion. My goal is to be as punishing as possible and continue to attack wherever I can get nice attritional results on the enemy. If he leaves his armored units exposed, I will certainly focus on them. The second part of my winter plan is to stock up on AP's, build cavalry corps, and build as many infantry brigades as possible to create enough unit mass while I am converting units to corps. I am pondering holding two armor armies in mobile reserve throughout the winter so that any summer 42 panzer punch will be more blunt. Considering my blunder at Moscow has created an opportunity around Stalino and Rostov, if I can hold the enemy well back there and create a 5+ hex fortified defense in depth, I will have a fighting chanced on holding the southern corner BUT I am planning how to get to the moon before Yuri Gregarian's first flight. I must not get ahead of myself And I welcome ideas and thoughts, as I am an inexperienced player who needs it. quote: ORIGINAL: GabrielBora The soviets keept about 80 divisions in reserve during bliZard: in game terms, if you have divisions ten points bellow national morale ,they should be striped from the fronts structure and keept under military districts and stavka until march : the units that are used durring the winter battles end up severly understrenght and morale gains are bellow expectations: A fresh 80 division reserve will help you restore the fronts staying power after the winter battles;

smokindave34 -> RE: Moscow (12/29/2016 5:42:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: topeverest I opted not to press a bad situation. I took back a few easy hexes bombed all exposed units, including HQ's, and repositioned units to slow the enemy advance. I am hoping to keep the enemy to 5 hexes past Moscow. I would prefer a salient to pressure more that flat line. In any event this is the big winter focus area. The remaining fair weather turns will only be opportunistic counterattacks. 50 divisions off all types are still training in the rear and will be the first part of the Russian winter attac. [image]local://upfiles/26803/CF74A95FA8304C6588C8DB57DDB357DB.jpg[/image] Not sure why you are keeping 50 divisions training in the rear - they could have been better served defending the approaches to Moscow or at least digging forts for your better units to fall back to. Your reserve units will be in good shape to fight in the blizzard but unfortunately Moscow will already be in axis hands. Nice job around Kharkov - your opponent is behind schedule in the south so you can take some comfort in that.

topeverest -> RE: Moscow (12/29/2016 8:37:25 PM)
Smoking dave - thanks for advice on bringing training units forward to build forts. I might have thought of that eventually!

smokindave34 -> RE: Moscow (12/30/2016 12:28:06 AM)
Those training units are very effective. This is my "crack" 1st fortified region in action..... [image]local://upfiles/27926/3851A2CB468E4B238088FEC9F05A813D.jpg[/image]

topeverest -> Turm 15 - end of September 1941 (12/30/2016 9:20:41 PM)
This turn was not remarkable. 1. the enemy continued to broaden the Moscow wedge but did not press across the river to take the other two hexes 2. Germany got out of the Kharkov pocket but did not advance - as expected 3. Enemy brings up more force and attacks again across Oka river towards Tula Russia begins pouring in reinforcements from points east to deepen the defense in depth and prepare for winter. Russia also shortens a bit of the MLR to discourage pincer actions Russia continues to build select air units

topeverest -> Turn 15 - Moscow (12/30/2016 9:22:17 PM)
I am sending reinforcements to the area as per recommendations of several, most recently smokingdave, to increase the forts built per turn. No real action this turn except attritional Russian air to axis ground [image]local://upfiles/26803/A61AECCBB5A149CF820AA02AC03696E1.jpg[/image]

topeverest -> September 41 month end stats (12/30/2016 9:28:10 PM)
Factory evacuation so far as been successful - but I will lose an additional 12 arm, 15 vehicle, and 9 HI in Moscow when it finally falls. No losses yet on AFV or air. [image]local://upfiles/26803/8672F3F0CCEE425F884A9C44B99E83CF.jpg[/image]

topeverest -> RE: September 41 month end stats (12/30/2016 9:34:17 PM)
Here are the ground and air losses. [image]local://upfiles/26803/DAD50BE5CF284B608D6EE9AF9BF36FE6.jpg[/image]

topeverest -> Current Front COmmanders (12/30/2016 9:42:59 PM)
Here are my current commanders at the front level. and MAN did it cost a lot to get rid of the bad ones I have RIF'd Note I have had two commanders executed - Shakht and Pavlov - both 0 political ratings. [image]local://upfiles/26803/91F78B9041044C50BB5687D625BA50D6.jpg[/image]

M60A3TTS -> RE: Current Front COmmanders (12/31/2016 9:52:55 AM)
It's wasteful in APs to be promoting GL's to Front commands. Leave the good ones in your better and important armies until they at least make GP. With those extra APs you could have a lot more sapper regiments or more/upgraded air regiments.

topeverest -> 16 - October 2, 1941 (1/1/2017 10:50:10 AM)
One more turn of likely good weather and then we are into the mud. Could get mud in North Soviet, but odds are next turn is last clear turn. We continue the same themes - Other two hexes of Moscow fall but enemy does not press beyond Enemy gets too far out in front of his troops at Kursk and has three units pocketed - same story here, I bet they get out of the pocket Gradual german progress along MLR, but will not reach stalino area Russians continue to pour units into the MLR, making minimal counterattacks robust soviet air to ground on german formations continue several new air units built, balance of APs banked all eyes to the bad weather

topeverest -> RE: 16 - October 2, 1941 - Kursk (1/1/2017 10:53:28 AM)
Here is that pocket - I am gonna get one of these destroyed eventually. I need to maintain a close tactical reserve as time goes on so I can do just that [image]local://upfiles/26803/09113E1F9FE148C98FD9A4E747B8933F.jpg[/image]

topeverest -> RE: 16 - October 2, 1941 - South (1/1/2017 11:16:43 AM)
My accidental overconcentration in the south yielded Moscow but reaped rewards in the south. It now looks like the southern corner at Rostov will solidly stay in Russian hands until the battles of 42. By accident this is a good outcome and allows both a potential winter counterattack and defense in depth in the spring. [image]local://upfiles/26803/52726DACCA004A399C4D5D11BAF2DF35.jpg[/image]

topeverest -> RE: 16 - October 2, 1941 - grand view (1/1/2017 11:37:48 AM)
Here is a view of the entire war with comments and risks identified [image]local://upfiles/26803/781D49248DE4490985EFEAC9A2F5F7FE.jpg[/image]

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