How to bomb ground troops?

How to bomb ground troops? (Full Version)

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santino250 -> How to bomb ground troops? (11/20/2016 5:58:23 PM)
Hi All I kind of touched on this in another thread, but here I go. What is the best way to get good kills when attacking large cities ground troops from the Air? I have tried attacking with Fighters at 1000', or 100, or 10k, also heavy bombers from 15,000- 10,000 and get no--- NO KILLS... here is an example. I have totally defeated their AF.. they launch no planes in defense.. 4 - recon air groups at different Alt's 20 - B29-25's Airgroups from 15,000 15 to 30 - B24-D's Airgroups from 10,000 10 - Divebomber Airgroups from 9000' 30- Fighter Airgroups attacking from 15000' to 100' All Bombers are trained to 70 or better in ground Most Fighters are between 60 and 70 in ground I have 11 out of 14 for detection... What am I doing wrong.. I have had the navy Bombardments for almost 2 months, everyday, getting good kills, 2 - 3000 a day.

BBfanboy -> RE: How to bomb ground troops? (11/20/2016 10:15:00 PM)
If it is a Heavy Urban hex it has +4 for cover for the enemy. Add forts to that and you need very heavy firepower like a BB to get results. Bombers need pilots well trained in Ground B, and experienced enough to have a "bombing accuracy" rating. The Dive Bombers should be set to 10k-15K altitude to get their best accuracy by dive bombing. If there are a lot of enemy troops there, the damage gets dispersed among them and it takes a long time to get fatigue/disruption up to the point where additional attacks cause disablement and then destruction. A large base with supply will also enable enemy troops to recover some of the ill effects of bombing every day. The key to compounding damage is to destroy the supply by bombing AF and Port and cutting off new supply. You can also inhibit recovery by having your own troops in the same hex - no rest in the face of the enemy.

SheperdN7 -> RE: How to bomb ground troops? (11/24/2016 1:18:37 AM)
Be careful with dive bombing, the losses are sometimes just too high by dive bombing. To avoid this problem, set dive bombers to 20000 feet.

BillBrown -> RE: How to bomb ground troops? (11/24/2016 4:49:24 AM)
It is probably better to set the dive bombers at 9,000 feet. They will level bomb with better accuracy than at 20,000 and they will still be above all of the 25mm and smaller AAA.

RogerJNeilson -> RE: How to bomb ground troops? (11/24/2016 5:27:39 AM)
I 'thought' that dive bombers although they flew at whatever height was ordered - normally around 10K - actually bomb at a very low level - the clue is in the word dive, and their vulnerability is because of this - especially their pull up and climb after bombing. I find them very useful at hitting ground troops that are no longer supplied where the AA is minor but anecdotally I am sure the losses I had when using them against well supplied and dug in troops was not cost effective. Roger

BBfanboy -> RE: How to bomb ground troops? (11/24/2016 7:32:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3 I 'thought' that dive bombers although they flew at whatever height was ordered - normally around 10K - actually bomb at a very low level - the clue is in the word dive, and their vulnerability is because of this - especially their pull up and climb after bombing. I find them very useful at hitting ground troops that are no longer supplied where the AA is minor but anecdotally I am sure the losses I had when using them against well supplied and dug in troops was not cost effective. Roger Yes, DBs descend to ~2500 feet in their dive, but in order to get them to dive bomb they must be in the 10,000 - 15,000 foot altitude range. Anything else is level bombing. There used to be a "glide bombing" attack at a certain altitude range but that was removed in one of the updates.

BillBrown -> RE: How to bomb ground troops? (11/24/2016 11:52:30 AM)
From a recent combat report: The SBDs are set to bomb at 7000 feet. Morning Air attack on 14th Indpt SNLF Coy , at 135,159 (Taveuni Island) Weather in hex: Clear sky Raid spotted at 14 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 5 minutes Allied aircraft SBD-3 Dauntless x 20 Allied aircraft losses SBD-3 Dauntless: 2 damaged Japanese ground losses: 8 casualties reported Squads: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Aircraft Attacking: 18 x SBD-3 Dauntless bombing from 7000 feet Ground Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb 2 x SBD-3 Dauntless bombing from 7000 feet Ground Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb

RogerJNeilson -> RE: How to bomb ground troops? (11/24/2016 12:38:11 PM)
Hi Bill I think those ones are level bombing.... Here are three separate examples of my DBs dive bombing, the word releasing seems to be the key. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on 61st Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 82,73 (Aparri) Weather in hex: Moderate rain Raid spotted at 4 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 1 minutes Allied aircraft SB2C-3 Helldiver x 14 No Allied losses Japanese ground losses: 29 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Aircraft Attacking: 10 x SB2C-3 Helldiver releasing from 4000' Ground Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb, 2 x 250 lb GP Bomb 4 x SB2C-3 Helldiver releasing from 2000' Ground Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb, 2 x 250 lb GP Bomb ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on 65th Naval Guard Unit, at 85,67 (Orchid Island) Weather in hex: Partial cloud Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 8 minutes Allied aircraft F6F-5 Hellcat x 14 SB2C-3 Helldiver x 24 SBD-3 Dauntless x 3 SBD-5 Dauntless x 10 Allied aircraft losses SB2C-3 Helldiver: 1 damaged Aircraft Attacking: 2 x SB2C-3 Helldiver releasing from 3000' * Ground Attack: 1 x 500 lb GP Bomb 5 x SB2C-3 Helldiver releasing from 2000' * Ground Attack: 1 x 500 lb GP Bomb 3 x SBD-5 Dauntless releasing from 4000' * Ground Attack: 1 x 500 lb GP Bomb 7 x SBD-5 Dauntless releasing from 2000' Ground Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb 3 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000' Ground Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb 7 x SB2C-3 Helldiver releasing from 4000' * Ground Attack: 1 x 500 lb GP Bomb 2 x SB2C-3 Helldiver releasing from 3000' * Ground Attack: 1 x 500 lb GP Bomb 4 x SB2C-3 Helldiver releasing from 4000' * Ground Attack: 1 x 500 lb GP Bomb 4 x SB2C-3 Helldiver releasing from 2000' * Ground Attack: 1 x 500 lb GP Bomb ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on 4th NCPC Infantry Brigade, at 91,40 (Taiyuan) Weather in hex: Light rain Raid spotted at 14 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 6 minutes Allied aircraft Vengeance I x 21 SB2C-1C Helldiver x 14 No Allied losses Japanese ground losses: 28 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Aircraft Attacking: 7 x SB2C-1C Helldiver releasing from 4000' Ground Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb, 2 x 250 lb GP Bomb 3 x Vengeance I releasing from 3000' Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb, 2 x 250 lb GP Bomb 6 x Vengeance I releasing from 4000' Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb, 2 x 250 lb GP Bomb 6 x Vengeance I releasing from 3000' Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb, 2 x 250 lb GP Bomb 7 x SB2C-1C Helldiver releasing from 2000' Ground Attack: 1 x 1000 lb GP Bomb, 2 x 250 lb GP Bomb 3 x Vengeance I releasing from 2000' Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb, 2 x 250 lb GP Bomb 3 x Vengeance I releasing from 2000' Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb, 2 x 250 lb GP Bomb Roger

LastBreath -> RE: How to bomb ground troops? (11/26/2016 7:56:26 PM)
Hum.... I don t understand this thread. You talk about killing soldiers but you use dive bombers. Dive bombers are accurate bombers so they must be used to destroy moving targets like tanks or boats. Stuka is the iii reich boat killer number 1' You show 8, 28 casualties for 20 , 30 bombers , come on men this is nuts.

szmike -> RE: How to bomb ground troops? (11/26/2016 8:08:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LastBreath I m very disappointed with these answers. So that s could means I finally leave the noob status (I hope one day) or I miss something (probably) But ... 8 or 28 casualties is nuts , that won t pay the aircrafts costs I consider that a good air raid must send around 250 , 300 soldiers to he Valhalla for each run. I dont know the allied side but it must be a counter part to my iron spear bombing group you know nothing Jon Snow.... if that was the case Normandy invasion wouldn't be necessary [:'(]

LastBreath -> RE: How to bomb ground troops? (11/26/2016 8:30:50 PM)
you know nothing Jon Snow.. Excellent I love this movie ! But what I don t know exactly ? 250 300, is not big , in reality japs lost 10x more in one of massive air raid in guadal. About Normandy inv. This is a propaganda or at last political point of view. I m sure that people from normandy or soviet union don t use the word necessary [:)]

BillBrown -> RE: How to bomb ground troops? (11/26/2016 8:51:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3 Hi Bill I think those ones are level bombing.... < snip > Roger roger, ShepardN7 stated above that the OP should set his dive bombers at 20,000 feet to avoid dive bombing. My contention is that it is better to set them to 9,000( if there is flak) or lower to also avoid dive bombing and to get better results than bombing at 20,000 feet. I had mine set to 7,000 feet since there was no flak present in the hex. I also had B-25s bombing at 7,000 feet in the same hex and there was fighter escort, just not with this bombing run. Yes, if you set the altitude at 10,000 to 15,000 feet they will dive bomb and release between 2,000 and 4,000 feet which should be even more accurate but flak can be harmful at that low of an altitude.

SheperdN7 -> RE: How to bomb ground troops? (11/27/2016 3:52:19 AM)
My reasoning for setting them to 20K feet was only to minimize the casualties that they sustain do to AAA fire and its really my "go to" option for my DB's. I've just noticed my Val's just get absolutely slaughtered during dives and level bombers get hurt more the lower they are flying at.

glyphoglossus -> RE: How to bomb ground troops? (11/27/2016 4:00:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy quote: ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3 I 'thought' that dive bombers although they flew at whatever height was ordered - normally around 10K - actually bomb at a very low level - the clue is in the word dive, and their vulnerability is because of this - especially their pull up and climb after bombing. I find them very useful at hitting ground troops that are no longer supplied where the AA is minor but anecdotally I am sure the losses I had when using them against well supplied and dug in troops was not cost effective. Roger Yes, DBs descend to ~2500 feet in their dive, but in order to get them to dive bomb they must be in the 10,000 - 15,000 foot altitude range. Anything else is level bombing. There used to be a "glide bombing" attack at a certain altitude range but that was removed in one of the updates. Hmm, so the following is no longer true (wrt to glide bombing)? http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2348471 Summary from the linked thread: Alt Type --- ---- < 1K Low-level attack 1-9 K Level bomb 10-15 K Dive bomb 16-19 K Glide bomb 20+ K Level bomb (less accurate) quote: ORIGINAL: michaelm Mission: Bombing A/c type: DB (1) Group altitude: 10-15K A/c are treated as if performing a diving attack (2) Group altitude: 16-19K A/c are treated as if performing a glide attack (3) Group altitude: <1K A/c are treated as if performing a low level attack (4) Group altitude: 20+ or 1-9K A/c are treated as if performing a normal horizontal attack The attacks are based on altitude flown. If I had to do it again, I would probably let the player pick an 'attack tactic' which would allow planes to approach target at the group alt but determine the attack alt and bombing type based on the 'attack tactic'. Diving attacks have a better chance than gliding attacks to make a hit; pilots with good NAVAL_BOMB skills have a better chance. Exit altitude is 1000-4000'. Glide attacks have a better chance than level bombing but not as good as diving attacks to make a hit, but; again better skilled pilots have a better chance. Exit altitude is 2000-5000'. [Typo after all that - items 3 & 4]

BillBrown -> RE: How to bomb ground troops? (11/27/2016 4:01:41 AM)
Yep, Vals do have a problem below 10,000 feet because the Allied 40mm Bofors has a ceiling of 9000 feet.

SheperdN7 -> RE: How to bomb ground troops? (11/27/2016 4:08:06 AM)
Doesn't help either that they're as durable as a wet paper bag[8\|]

BBfanboy -> RE: How to bomb ground troops? (11/27/2016 1:40:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: glyphoglossus quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy quote: ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3 I 'thought' that dive bombers although they flew at whatever height was ordered - normally around 10K - actually bomb at a very low level - the clue is in the word dive, and their vulnerability is because of this - especially their pull up and climb after bombing. I find them very useful at hitting ground troops that are no longer supplied where the AA is minor but anecdotally I am sure the losses I had when using them against well supplied and dug in troops was not cost effective. Roger Yes, DBs descend to ~2500 feet in their dive, but in order to get them to dive bomb they must be in the 10,000 - 15,000 foot altitude range. Anything else is level bombing. There used to be a "glide bombing" attack at a certain altitude range but that was removed in one of the updates. Hmm, so the following is no longer true (wrt to glide bombing)? http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2348471 Summary from the linked thread: Alt Type --- ---- < 1K Low-level attack 1-9 K Level bomb 10-15 K Dive bomb 16-19 K Glide bomb 20+ K Level bomb (less accurate) quote: ORIGINAL: michaelm Mission: Bombing A/c type: DB (1) Group altitude: 10-15K A/c are treated as if performing a diving attack (2) Group altitude: 16-19K A/c are treated as if performing a glide attack (3) Group altitude: <1K A/c are treated as if performing a low level attack (4) Group altitude: 20+ or 1-9K A/c are treated as if performing a normal horizontal attack The attacks are based on altitude flown. If I had to do it again, I would probably let the player pick an 'attack tactic' which would allow planes to approach target at the group alt but determine the attack alt and bombing type based on the 'attack tactic'. Diving attacks have a better chance than gliding attacks to make a hit; pilots with good NAVAL_BOMB skills have a better chance. Exit altitude is 1000-4000'. Glide attacks have a better chance than level bombing but not as good as diving attacks to make a hit, but; again better skilled pilots have a better chance. Exit altitude is 2000-5000'. [Typo after all that - items 3 & 4] Yes - note that the link you posted was dated 2010, when the game first came out. At that time Level Bombing attacks below 5000 feet were also considered low level. During one of the updates the air model was streamlined a bit by eliminating the glide bombing attack and making 1000' the threshold for Low Level attack for all aircraft types. Flak will serve to keep LB from using the 2000-5000 foot level very much, although I like it for enemy that are out of ammo (and not in a base that has balloons).

LastBreath -> RE: How to bomb ground troops? (11/27/2016 3:28:08 PM)
Hello, here below my results. Note that my bombers split in 2 groups due to the zero escort. 85 + 206 = 291 casualties in a morning attack for 69t of bombs I don t know how to kill more people with the ridiculous payload of jap bombers anyway. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on 8th Indian Brigade, at 51,75 (Kota Bharu) Weather in hex: Clear sky Raid spotted at 8 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 2 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 17 Ki-21-IIa Sally x 21 No Japanese losses Allied ground losses: 85 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Aircraft Attacking: 21 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 9000 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on FMSV Brigade, at 51,75 (Kota Bharu) Weather in hex: Clear sky Raid spotted at 9 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 2 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-21-IIa Sally x 48 No Japanese losses Allied ground losses: 206 casualties reported Squads: 1 destroyed, 13 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 16 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Aircraft Attacking: 27 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 9000 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb 21 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 9000 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb

LastBreath -> RE: How to bomb ground troops? (11/27/2016 3:39:00 PM)
So, my view is: use the right bomber for the job : (dive, torpedo for boat , level for ground) use them in large group like US box or japs ones . use incendiary bombs to shift earth to hell like at Dresde (you will see on the map a fire column or more than one, depend tons of bombs used ) Set 9000 alt to maximum power.

szmike -> RE: How to bomb ground troops? (11/27/2016 5:12:43 PM)
Well, you get plenty disablements, when they are low on healthy squads/devices you'll start destroying them until unit is wiped out. it takes some time, but depends on the size of unit. Bns are quite easy to kill with bombing only, especially in clear terrain.

glyphoglossus -> RE: How to bomb ground troops? (11/27/2016 5:39:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy quote: ORIGINAL: glyphoglossus quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy quote: ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson 3 I 'thought' that dive bombers although they flew at whatever height was ordered - normally around 10K - actually bomb at a very low level - the clue is in the word dive, and their vulnerability is because of this - especially their pull up and climb after bombing. I find them very useful at hitting ground troops that are no longer supplied where the AA is minor but anecdotally I am sure the losses I had when using them against well supplied and dug in troops was not cost effective. Roger Yes, DBs descend to ~2500 feet in their dive, but in order to get them to dive bomb they must be in the 10,000 - 15,000 foot altitude range. Anything else is level bombing. There used to be a "glide bombing" attack at a certain altitude range but that was removed in one of the updates. Hmm, so the following is no longer true (wrt to glide bombing)? http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=2348471 Summary from the linked thread: Alt Type --- ---- < 1K Low-level attack 1-9 K Level bomb 10-15 K Dive bomb 16-19 K Glide bomb 20+ K Level bomb (less accurate) quote: ORIGINAL: michaelm Mission: Bombing A/c type: DB (1) Group altitude: 10-15K A/c are treated as if performing a diving attack (2) Group altitude: 16-19K A/c are treated as if performing a glide attack (3) Group altitude: <1K A/c are treated as if performing a low level attack (4) Group altitude: 20+ or 1-9K A/c are treated as if performing a normal horizontal attack The attacks are based on altitude flown. If I had to do it again, I would probably let the player pick an 'attack tactic' which would allow planes to approach target at the group alt but determine the attack alt and bombing type based on the 'attack tactic'. Diving attacks have a better chance than gliding attacks to make a hit; pilots with good NAVAL_BOMB skills have a better chance. Exit altitude is 1000-4000'. Glide attacks have a better chance than level bombing but not as good as diving attacks to make a hit, but; again better skilled pilots have a better chance. Exit altitude is 2000-5000'. [Typo after all that - items 3 & 4] Yes - note that the link you posted was dated 2010, when the game first came out. At that time Level Bombing attacks below 5000 feet were also considered low level. During one of the updates the air model was streamlined a bit by eliminating the glide bombing attack and making 1000' the threshold for Low Level attack for all aircraft types. Flak will serve to keep LB from using the 2000-5000 foot level very much, although I like it for enemy that are out of ammo (and not in a base that has balloons). Arrgh. All those wasted strikes where I thought I was doing gaining some effectiveness when all I was doing was burning up Betty's with no "glide bombing" benefit. It seems then, that either 9000 or 20000 is the way to go ... Well, good to know!

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