RE: 8MP Axis - Airbase deployment (Full Version)

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Telemecus -> RE: 8MP Axis - Airbase deployment (4/10/2018 3:43:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: beender
quote:

I thought only 8 airbases could be assigned to a flieger korps and 16 in total under a Luftflotte now?

Then there is not much disadvantage, because for me a max of 16 airbases for an air flotte is surely enough.


True. Sometimes you will need more than 16 but not in the same turn - so you can always unassign one and reassign another as needs and points allow

quote:

ORIGINAL: beender
quote:

However staging bases do not supply fuel/ammo to staging airgroups (which I suspect may be a mistake in the game design)

I agree. But even if they do they probably won't help much since they are often empty.

Or indeed it can be a great help - if you had to get fuel to them it would be a headache to solve too - and need more airbase cycling. This way magically the fuel airgroups need to refuel magically arrives with the airgroups themselves.




Telemecus -> RE: 8MP Axis - Air turn sequence (4/12/2018 5:28:03 PM)

Earlier in this AAR there was an idealised sequence for team games. As requested this is an idealised sequence for doing the air role, whether through a team game or solo. It is idealised as it may not always be possible to follow this sequence, and an experienced player knowing the trade-offs may not want to. But certainly for less experienced player following this sequence or something similar could help.

START OF TURN
1 Preliminaries
A Adjust Air Doctrine (some parts of air doctrine cannot be changed after you conduct any air missions)
B Switch all airgroups to night missions (to stop any air missions, including auto interceptions of enemy, occurring after which airgroups cannot be redeployed)
C Make adjustments to each airgroups upgrade and replacement settings (cannot be done or viewed after they have been sent to reserve through transit)

2 Manual Air Swaps (cannot be done after sent to national reserve through transit or from it, or after moved or conducted missions)

3 Send airgroups to national reserve (more can be done later, but better do most at start as once air bases are moved or missions flown airgroups cannot then be sent to reserve, and to make space for initial air deployments)

4 Initial air deployment (referred to be Crackaces as the "Kabuki dance")
A Find an airbase which is empty which you want to move to another place and move it there
B Air transfer airgroups to the airbase you have just moved
Repeat A and B until complete. Prioritise deployment of fighter groups that you can then switch to day missions to intercept any interdiction of your airbase moves, and recon which you can then use to find out where you want your airbases deployed to (although this would be going out of sequence)

DURING TURN
5 Air missions
Each mission initiated by player needs airgroups to be switched to appropriate day/night mission settings and fighter-bombers appropriate fighter or bomber mission settings
For missions initiated automatically (interception/ ground support) in advance make air doctrine changes (where possible) and switch airgroups to appropriate day/night missions and fighter-bombers to appropriate fighter or bomber missions
A Air supply missions with bombers (can only be done as first mission)
B Airbase recon and bombing - recon first to get the best detection level and tell you if the bombing needs an escort (bombers/fighters can only do this with first 33% of miles)
C Other missions - again recon first can raise detection levels for better bombing effects, and to tell you whether you need escorts

END OF TURN
7 Final air recon to raise detection levels for multi turn tracking or to increase interdiction in enemy action phase

8 Final movement of airbases (e.g. to safety in enemy turn, to where needed for air defence, interdiction, ground support in enemy turn)

9 Callup of airgroups from reserve (no need to do this before the very end, and avoids being assigned to airbases that are moved or need slots for other airgroups)

10 Final changes to air doctrine for enemy action phase

11 Switch airgroups to appropriate day/night mission settings and fighter-bombers appropriate fighter or bomber mission settings for enemy action phase




Telemecus -> 8MP Axis - Air Pools Management (4/13/2018 11:44:35 AM)

Air Pools Management

The third and final request before getting back to the normal turn by turn AAR. Certain types of aircraft can be made not just from production but by converting/importing other models of aircraft to it. This will happen automatically when there are aircraft of that model in the pool when certain conditions (date,type etc.) are met. Below is a diagram for conversions/imports in v1.10 Bitter End data. This can be found for other scenarios from the import column of the csv export of aircraft data for other scenarios. Other columns such as importfrom give the dates when the exports start etc. The Soviet side is much simpler as there are no imports/exports and only a couple of aircraft model conversions in v1.10 Bitter End.

The arrows indicating conversions/imports are coloured green where I want them to happen and red where I do not. Generally imports from Germany to allies result in a plane with worse statistics flown by an allied air group with worse experience and morale in a restricted geographical area. In the case of exports to Slovakia which has no airgroups after 1941 and for which there is not even any scrappage they will remain unused in the pool until the end of game. So in general I do not want these imports. And I do not want to see aircraft convert from one type of aircraft which I am short of to another which I have in excess (such as recon). So as an example I do not want to see exports of He111H-4 bombers to He 111P(H) which are Hungarian recon airplanes. That is just bad in so many ways!

To get the conversions you do want you need to have the aircraft out of airgroups and in the pool when the dates and other criteria for conversion apply. And conversely for those you do not want you would need to have those aircraft in airgroups and not in the pool under the same circumstances. This can be done automatically over time by managing the replacement and upgrade settings of air groups, but may need points spend in some cases to be done manually.

[image]local://upfiles/53894/703A5BC93E0A4A95B99E35CCF2F77D94.jpg[/image]




Crackaces -> RE: 8MP Axis - Air Pools Management (4/13/2018 12:50:17 PM)

I might propose that the air war module is the most complicated part of this game. The opponent recruitment forum has advertisements "experienced opponent wanted .." What does that mean? I might suggest that there are very experienced German players in terms of years of playing the game and understanding the ground war that do not have this part of the game mastered. Given 2 experienced opponents, the German player mastering the air war module is the key to success. This based on two games working closely with the grand master of them all -- Telemecus.
The effects of a well mastered air war are many -- but succinctly: Strategically, thousands of Yak's not produced; Operationally Soviet units interdicted and frozen in place; tactically, close battles won though first disruption of enemy devices. While "picomanaging" every single German air platform to maximize effect resulting an the ability to project air power until the game is won.

A German player simply rolling airbases forward without this management simply will have damaged aircraft, no fuel for air operations, and be unable to project air power into the battlespace.




SparkleyTits -> RE: 8MP Axis - Air Pools Management (4/18/2018 8:48:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

"picomanaging"



Picolord Tele please stop breaking the game the rest of us cannot keep up [:D]




Zorch -> RE: 8MP Axis - Air Pools Management (4/18/2018 9:30:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Air Pools Management

The third and final request before getting back to the normal turn by turn AAR. Certain types of aircraft can be made not just from production but by converting/importing other models of aircraft to it. This will happen automatically when there are aircraft of that model in the pool when certain conditions (date,type etc.) are met. Below is a diagram for conversions/imports in v1.10 Bitter End data. This can be found for other scenarios from the import column of the csv export of aircraft data for other scenarios. Other columns such as importfrom give the dates when the exports start etc. The Soviet side is much simpler as there are no imports/exports and only a couple of aircraft model conversions in v1.10 Bitter End.

The arrows indicating conversions/imports are coloured green where I want them to happen and red where I do not. Generally imports from Germany to allies result in a plane with worse statistics flown by an allied air group with worse experience and morale in a restricted geographical area. In the case of exports to Slovakia which has no airgroups after 1941 and for which there is not even any scrappage they will remain unused in the pool until the end of game. So in general I do not want these imports. And I do not want to see aircraft convert from one type of aircraft which I am short of to another which I have in excess (such as recon). So as an example I do not want to see exports of He111H-4 bombers to He 111P(H) which are Hungarian recon airplanes. That is just bad in so many ways!

To get the conversions you do want you need to have the aircraft out of airgroups and in the pool when the dates and other criteria for conversion apply. And conversely for those you do not want you would need to have those aircraft in airgroups and not in the pool under the same circumstances. This can be done automatically over time by managing the replacement and upgrade settings of air groups, but may need points spend in some cases to be done manually.

[image]local://upfiles/53894/703A5BC93E0A4A95B99E35CCF2F77D94.jpg[/image]

Imagine calling Gladiator customer support from somewhere near Leningrad...




Telemecus -> RE: 8MP Axis T19 (4/19/2018 11:58:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch
Imagine calling Gladiator customer support from somewhere near Leningrad...


I guess after sales support for Rumanian and Finnish Blenheims, Brewsters, Hurricanes, Lysanders, Hawks, Ripons, Pe-2s, Blochs, Potez, and PZLs was far from enthusiastic. [:D]

It still leaves the question of why they got longer range hurricanes than the British were giving to the Russians?




morvael -> RE: 8MP Axis T19 (4/21/2018 12:46:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus
Turn 19 29-October-1941: The "EXPLANATION"
Click on the photo below to link to the video - you should see the subtitles in English. If not you do need to switch them on to know what they are "really" saying.


Lovely! [&o] It's the first time I'm referenced on YT, and already in my favourite "series" - Hitler rants!




thedude357 -> RE: 8MP Axis T19 (4/23/2018 12:44:25 AM)

Army Group South Turn 19

Mud this turn, and a large portion of AGS is isolated due to distance from rail. The small pocket west of Voronezh is eliminated where there is snow. I created a Stalino line of forts to increase the fort levels for the upcoming blizzard.

[image]https://i.imgur.com/yXYvnYM.png[/image]

[image]https://i.imgur.com/nTs1Sfe.png[/image]




Telemecus -> RE: 8MP Axis T19 (4/23/2018 2:22:01 PM)

Turn 19 29-October-1941 Air

With so many isolated units near Rostov our air force is turning more to transport missions to switch out isolated units to beachhead status.

There are still no Soviet air groups anywhere near us. Come back and fight us you cowards!

We can see some of their airbases have moved to the eastern edge of the map now with some airgroups on them. Clearly our opponenets have decided to move airbases so far to the rear that we could not possibly interfere with them. Presumably they are being rotated in and out of the National Reserve - the complements we see for the air groups there if just out of National Reserve do not look healthy at all.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus
quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
That U-2VS airbase didn't get much in the way of Luftwaffe love this turn, so like an obstinate child, it will kick and scream (by bombing you) you until you do. You're going to do my job for me whether you want to or not. [:'(]

I want to - we have lots of arriving bomber boys who want the practice! Just ran out of airfield bombing miles this time. Ask the coders to extend the 33%! But I think this confirms you are in the U2-VS club!


Well having bombed the U2VS last turn as our opponents requested they have taken them away again! For all the protestations we believe the Soviet team are actually closet U2VS fans in denial.

For almost the entire battle area we are facing blizzards. And our vehicle situation now means we can no longer assign all aircraft back from National Reserve each turn. Keeping aircraft off the map is one of the main discretionary ways we have of reducing vehicle need, and our needs came perilously close to what was available this turn.

And at the end of this turn we hear a noise we have not heard for a very long time indeed - supply planes flying to partisans.




Telemecus -> RE: 8MP Axis T19 (4/24/2018 1:09:36 PM)

Turn 19 29-October-1941 Economic

Our strategic bombing campaign continues. With the atypical blizzard weather this turn we have to content ourselves with just one big raid (for blizzard) to keep building the damage at the LaGG-3 factory in Gorky and some smaller raids on small factories where appreciable damage could still be inflicted.

A curiosity ever since we upgraded the version of the WitE program is we are regularly seeing examples of collateral damage from bombing. Here at Gorky now whenever we bomb the T34 factory, we also get some damage to the T60 factory we did not even target.

[image]local://upfiles/53894/A56DD3ED814641B69A5F6ED73DF3C93C.jpg[/image]


The exodus of Soviet interceptor factories continues as the Yak-1 factory at Tatischevo near Saratov is also evacuated to Nizhny Tagil. Its evacuation is solely down to our air bombardment. The bombing combined with the forced evacuation means this factory will produce 545 fewer Yak-1s than it would have done. Together with the losses from the two Yak-1 factories evacuated last turn this means an expected total loss of production 1,563 Yak-1s caused by bombing.*

In South Stalingrad concern with "over-bombing" the T60 factory means we bomb the arms factories instead.

[image]local://upfiles/53894/0FA45A173C134F9A87B874267E383AA5.jpg[/image]


*These figures were calculated using the Soviet Aircraft Tracker 2.0 in the The library of WitE resources. This includes corrections to formulas for production which means the calculations in the previous version could be up to one turn out. Unless otherwise noted previous figures in this AAR will be under the previous version.




Telemecus -> RE: 8MP Axis T19 (4/24/2018 1:54:04 PM)

Turn 19 Allocations
For information only - team allocations for turn 19.




Telemecus -> RE: 8MP Axis T20 (4/24/2018 2:07:30 PM)

Turn 20 5-November-1941 Team

Crackaces joined the team! Crackaces will be spending this turn touring the front and meeting the troops before taking up their new command post next turn.




Zorch -> RE: 8MP Axis T20 (4/24/2018 6:50:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Turn 20 5-November-1941 Team Changes

Crackaces joined the team! Crackaces will be spending this turn touring the front and meeting the troops before taking up their new command post next turn.

These troops?

[image]local://upfiles/34241/914CCACB8AA94D39B50549651421B9AA.gif[/image]




Telemecus -> RE: 8MP Axis T20 (4/24/2018 7:10:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch
These troops?


The Dirty Dozen? [:D]

Crackaces is certainly the team member with the most experience with special forces!




Zorch -> RE: 8MP Axis T20 (4/24/2018 8:37:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch
These troops?


The Dirty Dozen? [:D]

Crackaces is certainly the team member with the most experience with special forces!

Yes (to the DD - I can't speak for Crackaces).




Crackaces -> RE: 8MP Axis T20 (4/25/2018 1:08:14 PM)

So on turn 20 I have the password and access to the turn. This gives me a chance to analyze the situation. I opened the game and went through turn by turn to understand how the front developed

Strategically, I feel that Soviets are on an improving course since M60 took over the Soviets. On turn 20 the Soviet have 4.2M in TO&E 36,717 guns Or 0.8% Guns/manpower. I surmise that not enough units are out there and the units that are out there do not have enough tubes.

From an operational standpoint I am assigned to hold Moscow for the winter -- in particular during the blizzard. A full blizzard but no 2:1 Soviet attack. The Germans are formulating their summer plan already, but we have to survive the winter. My plan is to not survive -- but flourish! I think 4.2M lacking tubes is not the same blizzard offense as say 6M and 1% gun to man ratio. Despite a harsh blizzard I believe I can trade some blood for space and time given these constraints.
The problem is .. every battle lost costs morale. Certainly morale can be made up in the summer, but units spending too much morale in losses do not simply retreat but they break. This is a disaster as I need "stuff" to hold the line for what is certain a focused offense.

From a tactical standpoint, I am a newbie to this game. I have spent a lot of time analyzing the combat engine and optimizing SU's for particular matchups. There are a lot more experienced and better commanders now on the Soviet side as compared to this newbie.

The map below:

A big bulge exists at Moscow. That must not break. There are vulnerabilities particularly south of Tula. Cavalry running loose and cutting off rail lines would be disastrous, and eventually lead to an isolated Moscow. Keep a line, trade blood for space and time. We shall see how this unfolds.

[image]local://upfiles/38979/3BE5316E32FB467B90BD2B387EFA40E1.jpg[/image]




Telemecus -> RE: 8MP Axis Summer Operational Name (4/26/2018 9:53:14 AM)

OPEN FOR NOMINATIONS

What will we call out summer campaign plan?

We started planning our summer campaign way back before the winter started - and now we are actually playing turn 38 we are only a little while away from Kick off and on version 15 of the plan. But we lack one crucial ingredient - the operational name. Last time we had nominations and a vote for the name of our campaign for Moscow, Operation Totenritt. This time we are opening nominations for all lurkers to contribute, nominations even from our Soviet opponents will be considered. However any suggestions which imply anything other than a complete victory will of course be eliminated!

So what are your suggestions????!!!!




SparkleyTits -> RE: 8MP Axis Summer Operational Name (4/26/2018 10:08:42 AM)

Operation flatonface?




N35T0R -> RE: 8MP Axis Summer Operational Name (4/26/2018 11:08:44 AM)

"Operation does not imply anything other than a complete victory"?

Great aar btw.




M60A3TTS -> RE: 8MP Axis Summer Operational Name (4/26/2018 5:34:32 PM)

Operation Wishful Thinking




Zorch -> RE: 8MP Axis Summer Operational Name (4/26/2018 8:11:32 PM)

Operation 'We really don't want to spend another winter here'.




SparkleyTits -> RE: 8MP Axis Summer Operational Name (4/26/2018 8:14:23 PM)

Loving all the suggestions so far [:D]




Telemecus -> RE: 8MP Axis Summer Operational Name (4/26/2018 8:30:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

Loving all the suggestions so far [:D]


OMG - what have I started! [:D]




SparkleyTits -> RE: 8MP Axis Summer Operational Name (4/26/2018 8:35:11 PM)

I'm not trying to influence anyone here of course but us Soviets are definitely the underdogs so any continued morale boosting operation names will be appreciated [:D]




Zorch -> RE: 8MP Axis Summer Operational Name (4/26/2018 8:45:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

I'm not trying to influence anyone here of course but us Soviets are definitely the underdogs so any continued morale boosting operation names will be appreciated [:D]

Operation 'I hear Siberia is very nice this time of year'?




Telemecus -> RE: 8MP Axis Summer Operational Name (4/27/2018 11:52:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits
Soviets are definitely the underdogs


Since when?




Crackaces -> RE: 8MP Axis Summer Operational Name (4/27/2018 3:13:28 PM)

Operation "Golden Spike" and I will turn all my units gold ...

(A little inside humor in 2x3 the offense to take Yaroslavi was called "bronze charge" much to ST's dismay I turned many units to a bronze color as specified in RGB.)








Telemecus -> RE: 8MP Axis Summer Operational Name (4/27/2018 3:16:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

Operation "Golden Spike" and I will turn all my units gold ...

(A little inside humor in 2x3 the offense to take Yaroslavi was called "bronze charge" much to ST's dismay I turned many units to a bronze color as specified in RGB.)



Is there a map mod so that our opponents can be affronted by all the horrific colour choices for units too?




SparkleyTits -> RE: 8MP Axis Summer Operational Name (4/27/2018 3:21:34 PM)

Please don't put them into the AAR my ocd will set off again




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