RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (Full Version)

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Telemecus -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (10/20/2017 6:36:56 PM)

Turn 13 17-September-1941 North

Finally Leningrad falls!

[image]local://upfiles/53894/1CAF629B6172407E9E3449CE1F485AFE.jpg[/image]

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
The Axis lost 33 men in capturing Leningrad on week 13. We don't need to talk about victory conditions until silliness like these kinds of results are fixed.


4th Panzer Group breaks through almost to Vyshny Volchek almost encircling the Valdai heights.

[image]https://i.imgur.com/SXawp6T.png[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (10/20/2017 6:51:39 PM)

Turn 13 17-September-1941 Centre

quote:

Stelteck
The time for subtle manoeuvre is over and now it is time for frontal assaut unfortunately.
Moscow is in sight.


[image]local://upfiles/53894/A96194ADD8C047D0B1CF88A4559F50EC.jpg[/image]



RforRush -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (10/20/2017 7:01:35 PM)

Here's historical frontline at the end of september:

[image]https://i.imgur.com/o8i5zNA.jpg[/image]



M60A3TTS -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (10/20/2017 7:22:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Turn 13 17-September-1941 Centre

quote:

Stelteck
The time for subtle manoeuvre is over and now it is time for frontal assaut unfortunately.
Moscow is in sight.


[image]https://i.imgur.com/12OraRf.png[/image]


By comparison, Napoleon entered Moscow on September 14, 1812.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (10/20/2017 7:39:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Turn 13 17-September-1941 Centre

quote:

Stelteck
The time for subtle manoeuvre is over and now it is time for frontal assaut unfortunately.
Moscow is in sight.


[image]https://i.imgur.com/12OraRf.png[/image]


By comparison, Napoleon entered Moscow on September 14, 1812.

and in WITE game you don't have all the RED Soviet Counter attack lines coming to life either in the previous photo!



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (10/20/2017 7:48:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
The Axis lost 33 men in capturing Leningrad on week 13. We don't need to talk about victory conditions until silliness like these kinds of results are fixed.


OMG! M60 you are too kind calling this "silliness". I can think of a great deal of better words to say which are border line if not flat out obscenities. The causality rate given to the Germans is pure fantasy. I know what Chaos45 wrote about is true & it is true in this game and in the games I have been playing. This is beyond silliness.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (10/20/2017 7:50:09 PM)

Well, I see there is a new patch that just came out today. Hope it helps the Soviets some, they need some loving. Bleh, false alarm, only the notes to the patch we already have lol.



M60A3TTS -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (10/20/2017 7:58:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Turn 13 17-September-1941 Centre

quote:

Stelteck
The time for subtle manoeuvre is over and now it is time for frontal assaut unfortunately.
Moscow is in sight.


[image]https://i.imgur.com/12OraRf.png[/image]


By comparison, Napoleon entered Moscow on September 14, 1812.

and in WITE game you don't have all the RED Soviet Counter attack lines coming to life either in the previous photo!



That's because I can't afford to lose 20,000 men to kill 12 Germans.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (10/20/2017 7:59:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Turn 13 17-September-1941 Centre

quote:

Stelteck
The time for subtle manoeuvre is over and now it is time for frontal assaut unfortunately.
Moscow is in sight.


[image]https://i.imgur.com/12OraRf.png[/image]


By comparison, Napoleon entered Moscow on September 14, 1812.

and in WITE game you don't have all the RED Soviet Counter attack lines coming to life either in the previous photo!



That's because I can't afford to lose 20,000 men to kill 12 Germans.


Ya! I agree with you. It is beyond silliness.



thedude357 -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (10/20/2017 11:12:33 PM)

Army Group South Turn 13

Orel and Kursk were abandoned and are now under the control of the 6th Army. The infantry moves east as fast as possible to maintain contact with the Red Army. Near Rostov the infantry catches up to 1st PzG.

Stalino has fallen with all its industry and the pocket is now just 3 Soviet divisions left holed up in Makeevka. In other news the Italian Expeditionary Corps has finally made an appearance! They were bogged down by the logistics of all that tomato sauce and bottles of wine. One Italian soldier could be heard grumbling about "These a hands are for a lovin, not for a fightin" or something like that. Maybe it was a translation issue.

The real action this turn occurred in the rear with all the garrisons now required for all these former Soviet cities. Maybe one day now the toilets will finally work. Uncle Joe was certainly not a plumber.

Last, the Crimea has been fully broken into with plenty of sunshine left. Axis infantry are beginning to pour into vacation territory in a hope to relax and "get a good spot" on the beach while the weather is still fine. Hopefully the range to rail is close enough to bring up enough umbrellas for everyone. And everyone knows what the Romanians are bringing forward...

[image]https://i.imgur.com/ArzraXS.png[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (10/21/2017 11:36:40 AM)

Turn 13 17-September-1941 Air War AKA SparkleyTit's Dishonourable Carnage Report

Turn 13 finds no Soviet air activity in the North or South at all, and just a few recon and one ground bombing mission in the centre. No interdictions are being flown during our turn either.

Last turn we again "gifted" a few Luftwaffe airgoups that were just about to withdraw in the hope they could take a few Red Air Force aircraft with them as a parting gift. The following screenshot shows them on airbases right at the front last turn.

[image]https://i.imgur.com/niEXJ45.png[/image]

But instead of bombing the airgroups that we had gifted to our opponents before they withdrew, they simply incurred losses by being displaced by a ground attack. So they are lost without even taking anyone with them.

[image]https://i.imgur.com/3g5LCEk.png[/image]

We find a completely new air situation for the Soviet Union this turn. Only nine hexes contain airbases which are not frozen with aircraft in them. Three contain only interceptors near Gorky. East of Moscow there are three two of which include aircraft other than interceptors. And in the far North East a further three one of which includes aircraft other than interceptors - and the only one to have very long range bombers. This one is situated at the very last hex in that direction before terrain makes it impossible to fly aircraft from airbases. This last airbase is placed very obliquely for ground support so it presumably is there solely to supply partisans to the rear. Other than that no other airbases contain airgroups. This means there are absolutely no aircraft at all south of Moscow. In these cases airbases instead of being stacked are now dispersed each on their own.

Reconnaisance prior to the bombing of factories at Saratov picks up a large number of tank brigades in the area. And when reconnaisance is sent to evaluate the scale of the tank forces there yet another newly created airbase is picked up at Engels. But again without any aircraft on it.

The three airbase hexes at Gorky are too distant to attack effectively. This means the entire Luftwaffe air offensive is directed at just 3 hexes behind Moscow and 3 more to the far North East. Given the restrictions the game makes on commitments of aircraft and airgroups to any one attack the constraints we face this turn are not ammunition but the code base. Throwing the whole Luftwaffe against these airbases will still leave much of it unused.

As has been the case for several turns now no Soviet interceptors attempt to defend these airbases. However air losses are lower simply because they have so little aircraft on the map.

[image]https://i.imgur.com/E7uXVF9.png[/image]

They could now have been producing 207 interceptors a turn, but instead can only produce 169 at most and have an expected average production of 134 - every turn we would expect one or two of their interceptor factories to stop production. Given their losses, even with so many aircraft in the national reserve, this means the Red Air Force is still diminishing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: The artist formerly known as HardLuckYetAgain
The Soviets could stop this cold if they wanted too pretty easy, question is will they do it.


That may once have been the question but it might not be any longer. With losses of interceptors in production outstripping their production, and the fighters they have not being able to defend the factories that produce them, the Red Air Force effectively will be locked out of contesting the air indefinitely. The question is now we know they want to stop it but can they?

[image]https://i.imgur.com/EufY0h7.png[/image]

The lack of interceptor cover also means effectively hundreds of stukas and other tactical bombers are providing high levels of ground support unopposed. Some of the lack of air support in earlier turns for the ground forces is now being repaid many times over.

[image]https://i.imgur.com/JTKcYud.png[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (10/21/2017 12:36:21 PM)

Turn 13 17-September-1941 Economic War

This turn the advance of Axis forces meant the factories at Leningrad, Stalino and Gorlovka which were previously impossible to evacuate have been lost by the Soviet Union. No new factories have been placed on the lost or impossible to evacuate list this turn - but with West Moscow now in our Zone of Control evacuating the Pe-2, 5 vehicle or 8 arms factories there would cost double the rail cap if this remains the case.

Strategic Bombing

Displayed in the post for the air war in turn 12 are the current damage levels caused by our bombing campaign - the results of damage from previous turns which have not been added to this turn, such as Muron or Tambov, are displayed in bold. Others such as Yaroslavl have been fully repaired, have been evacuated such as Voronezh, or overun such as Voroshilovgrad. The damage to the arms factories at Gorky boxed in yellow however is due to evacuation rather than bombing. Further factories such as Novorossiysk this turn are reaching the 50% guaranteed shut down level. The tank, rocket launcher and Yak-1 factories have all had their expansion arrested for many turns.



Stelteck -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (10/21/2017 12:57:18 PM)

So it is turn 13 so time for a more detailed view at the end of the turn.

First the army group north.
Leningrad has fallen so now it is only some cleaning operation. The soviets still have an entire and strong army in extreme north facing the Fins.

[image]https://tof.cx/images/2017/10/21/7e400b31602e8a4286ed557b757a4e63.jpg[/image]

In the southern part of this region, capturing soviet troops is always good sport, and of course troops get clooser to the center area and moscow.

[image]https://tof.cx/images/2017/10/21/5b08bf77535095559458cff2d5e29f58.jpg[/image]

Now the most contested part currently, the moscow Area and army group center.

Previous turns, my beloved army group was facing multiple lines of defenses, but with sometimes an important gap between each line, which allowed me to isolate and detroy them by swinging north, then south, then north.
(It also slow me, but i always prefer capturing ennemy troops than gaining ground).

Unfortunately it is no more the case as i'am getting close to moscow and the place is getting crowded. So it is time for frontal assault.

Fortunately, at this point of the game, no soviet 3 division stack can really hold a deliberate german offensive. Of course, it cost some time.

It is a really difficult situation for the soviet, especially without the soviet attack bonus that prevent them from counter attacking. They may still be able to do it, but it is really difficult.

The multiplayer setup prevent me for extreme concentration of troops in the center, as we need to let some troops to my teammate, but it probably have the same effect soviet side, as you cannot completely removed all troops from one commander.

It do not know if moscow will fall. We will see.

[image]https://tof.cx/images/2017/10/21/3017e4dc1ebc7ad6ebb044df974c6430.jpg[/image]

South of moscow, my troops is getting close to Tula.

[image]https://tof.cx/images/2017/10/21/fc3acac609ca5feacc51b5ddd7a745f3.jpg[/image]

Then we have army group south already described previously.

[image]https://tof.cx/images/2017/10/21/1d3e174b5ef0119dd37c78afe0e01eed.jpg[/image]

[image]https://tof.cx/images/2017/10/21/45800597b7d4cce9cded945a92f9e3b4.jpg[/image]

[image]https://tof.cx/images/2017/10/21/6516ebce39597c6a83587fd9528c58f5.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (10/21/2017 12:58:01 PM)

Turn 13 Allocations
For information only - turn 13 Axis team allocations



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (10/21/2017 1:24:46 PM)

Hmmmmm, Can the Soviets pull this off?



Telemecus -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (10/21/2017 1:34:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Hmmmmm, Can the Soviets pull this off?


In which sense?



thedude357 -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (10/21/2017 2:00:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Hmmmmm, Can the Soviets pull this off?


In which sense?


Find a good spot on the beach of course.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (10/21/2017 2:00:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Hmmmmm, Can the Soviets pull this off?


In which sense?


They aren't out for the count yet but it is starting to look not so good.



M60A3TTS -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (10/22/2017 5:09:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Turn 13 17-September-1941 Economic War

This turn the advance of Axis forces meant the factories at Leningrad, Stalino and Gorlovka which were previously impossible to evacuate have been lost by the Soviet Union. No new factories have been placed on the lost or impossible to evacuate list this turn - but with West Moscow now in our Zone of Control evacuating the Pe-2, 5 vehicle or 8 arms factories there would cost double the rail cap if this remains the case.


No, it did not remain the case.



EwaldvonKleist -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (10/24/2017 7:54:09 AM)

Thank you for opening the AAR for Soviet spectators.
I have myself asked many times why so few axis players use strategic bombing against the Soviet union, at least I have never read of this in any AARs before. I personally would not do this as much as you, but the IL 2s at Voronesh are an excellent target. Spam bombing with Tac Bos will cause massive losses to the German player and the later it starts en masse, the better.
Excellent AAR!



Nix77 -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (10/25/2017 12:53:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
Ya! I agree with you. It is beyond silliness.


I think the current loss balance (or imbalance to be more precise) is due to design decision to create the losses more from attrition than the actual battles conducted by the player. If battles would be the decisive factor in overall losses, the players might be able to "play the engine" and orchestrate massive unhistorical losses by attacking often and hard, which didn't necessarily historically happen.

Currently battles are a way to create tactical and strategical advantage by gaining ground or making encirclements, and also one form of attrition for the Soviets.

I'd say the current overall loss figures seem to be in an almost correct historical ballpark in many of the AARs, don't you agree?

I'm all in for having more realistic battle casualties, but I'm afraid the balancing act to make that happen might be an overwhelming project for the designers & game patchers.



Telemecus -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (10/25/2017 1:07:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nix77
quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
It is beyond silliness.

I think the current loss balance (or imbalance to be more precise) is due to design decision to create the losses more from attrition than the actual battles conducted by the player. If battles would be the decisive factor in overall losses, the players might be able to "play the engine" and orchestrate massive unhistorical losses by attacking often and hard, which didn't necessarily historically happen.


There was an interesting discussion on this in the "Soviets post your Horrible loses here" thread. I hope HardLuckYetAgain will not mind me quoting them from there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain, Soviets post your Horrible loses here
quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus
One question I have for soviet posters in this thread is do they mean
i) They think total losses are fine, they should just be distributed in a different way between different kinds of battle and with attrition
OR
ii) These horrible losses add up to too few losses during the campaign for the Axis side as a whole


Yes in so many words the game is pretty much controlled by the "attritional" loses inflicted each and every turn by pure game mechanics....

I dont' have a problem with most loses all things considered.


So it is probably fair to say the complaints are about tactical results rather than how they add up to total losses - although there is always a separate debate about game balance!

And as, to some extent, the win/loss hold/retreat is a separate result from the losses total the tactical situation can be separated from the losses. Nevertheless it does take away the possibility of tactics/strategies of high localised losses even if they do not affect the overall game balance - or of course gaming it for that reason. I'd hope though some more interesting tactical play could be achieved on how losses are distributed locally while still avoiding such exploits.



Telemecus -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (10/25/2017 4:16:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
I have myself asked many times why so few axis players use strategic bombing against the Soviet union, at least I have never read of this in any AARs before.


My understanding was that this became a convention to save on lorry usage. Targetting places like Stalingrad and Gorky at first glance would mean you need to place bases with bombers near the front lines and a long way from rail. This simply guzzled up lorries. Indeed the convention went as far as to hardly use the Axis air forces at all. By adopting tactics that enable you to hit distant targets with bombers based on repaired rail hexes this was no longer a choice that had to be made - at least for us.



EwaldvonKleist -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (10/25/2017 4:27:00 PM)

That is a good point Telemecus.
But why save lorries?
While you have an excess, you don't need to save on lorries. Having 101% of the motor pool requirement or 180% makes hardly a difference, at least from my understanding of this.
So saving on trucks only helps you in the lategame or in the mud or blizzard, but not immediately in the critical summer of 1941.



Telemecus -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (10/25/2017 4:29:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
While you have an excess, you don't need to save on lorries. Having 101% of the motor pool requirement or 180% makes hardly a difference, at least from my understanding of this.
So saving on trucks only helps you in the lategame or in the mud or blizzard, but not immediately in the critical summer of 1941.

That is true and is my understanding too. Perhaps better said is to save lorries from being damaged and destroyed so more are available during the times you do not have an excess.



Telemecus -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (10/29/2017 2:14:03 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
ok, Soviet players should consider the Axis thread closed then.



Telemecus -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (11/1/2017 6:45:32 PM)

Turn 14 24-September-1941 North

Signals intelligence report a breakthrough this turn as they pick up STAVKA commands unencrypted and in the clear on their new Discord communication system

[image]https://i.imgur.com/B2Dwm2R.png[/image]
By now the whole Axis team is sitting comfortably with tea and biscuits to watch the show live
[image]https://i.imgur.com/auS5uwX.png[/image]
But nothing lasts for ever as message discipline is restored
[image]https://i.imgur.com/EAyo3Ts.png[/image]

Ol' timer Soviet officers on the reserve list feel their continued use of the carrier pigeon is vindicated. It is the 40s but they have not even caught up with technology from the 90s!

quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
Maybe somebody can contact him with ICQ, i have never heard of it before (nor used this).


So when the Soviets return their save to us there are no surprises. As 16th army is stretched out in regiments holding all the way from Leningrad to Moscow, the Soviets have been using them for training up units.

[image]local://upfiles/53894/288ADF3EA1464A6A9F6F109D4041EA05.jpg[/image]

Others have had other views on this kind of action

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
.. the loses I take for attacking regiments is F'ing RETARDED... I mean any German Regiment or Brigade the loses are insane. Like I said before I'm breaking my German units down into Regiments next time I play the Germans to entice a Russian attack. HOLY COW. Am I missing something here or is it just me the losses seem out of place compared to the loses I would get if I attacked a normal Division...There has to be something going on in the code when attacking German Regiments/Brigades....


Is this just a trade-off of losses for training up - or is there a more definitive answer for the Axis player on the break down units conundrum?

Soviet forces nearly encircled in the Valdai hills manage to extract themselves skillfully. The lake, city and swamps to the North East makes it difficult to outflank them again.

[image]https://i.imgur.com/ybjKMBi.png[/image]

North West Leningrad continues to hold out - but its demise is inevitable.



Telemecus -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (11/3/2017 3:59:23 PM)

Turn 14 24-September-1941 Centre

The Soviets succeed in pushing us back from the hex adjacent to West Moscow. But with evacuations of Moscow industry beginning we know they are planning for its possible loss.

quote:

Stelteck
Brute force is still going [though] It is looking good. I think they are lacking 30 good divisions here to really slow me. They have no place to withdraw, still they withdraw from excellent level 2 forts when the hex was in contact with me. I did this too as soviet but seing this from german point of view, it is not a good idea in fact.


Having made a very narrow piercing of a line in front of Moscow that had been in preparation for a long time we find at the start of our turn the whole line abandoned.

[image]local://upfiles/53894/4EF98A2C9FE143DEA227EEAD3F1B7CDF.jpg[/image]

Arguably with such a narrow piercing it would have been better to remain in the forts, smother the pincer and present a concave front to the Axis. By withdrawing to a straight line in front of Moscow, we could again attack from multiple hexes to a hex if we chose. (The first reference I am aware of of this phenomenon in battle is Cannae). Of course this makes the flanks easier to isolate, but even that takes extra movment points. And with the Oka to the South and impassable water to the North they could afford to stay forward somewhat on the flanks and in their forts. At this stage the Soviets should be trying to delay us until mud rather than worrying about losing units. A head on assault on Moscow from just one hex would be impossible - so some of the flanks would have had to be cleared first.

Instead we now face what I call, for want of a better word, the "big blob" defence. Defensive CV values are not high. But with many lines of units to either side of Moscow it will take many MPs to make a wide flank on the city. So by relentless grinding we gain around 3 hexes forward across the sector, again bringing West Mosocw and now Moscow proper into our Zone of Control. Khimki with it's industry falls into our hands.

[image]https://i.imgur.com/nQgt6xP.png[/image]

For the first time our centre commander has all the onmap stukas plus many other tactical and fighter bombers for their use completely fresh with no other missions having been performed. And in spite of being on bases with well over 1000 tonnes of ammo, our Centre commander for a second week manages to completely exhaust their munitions supplies. Supreme Command takes pride in being able to get aircraaft to bases with enough supplies for their missions for that turn. But at such short range and with the intensity of the combat many more missions can be, and are being, performed than anticipated. And then there is Stelteck's voracious appetite! With Moscow in sight and no enemy air force to speak of there has never been a better time to feed them! So Supreme Command will have to work harder to get the supplies Centre needs!

[image]https://i.imgur.com/DwdJKHV.png[/image]



bigbaba -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (11/3/2017 5:35:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS
The Axis lost 33 men in capturing Leningrad on week 13. We don't need to talk about victory conditions until silliness like these kinds of results are fixed.


OMG! M60 you are too kind calling this "silliness". I can think of a great deal of better words to say which are border line if not flat out obscenities. The causality rate given to the Germans is pure fantasy. I know what Chaos45 wrote about is true & it is true in this game and in the games I have been playing. This is beyond silliness.



on the other hand, the casualty rate of the red army 2.0 is too low. why?

because the recon is so good, that the red army player can choose his attacks wisely. in reality, the red army made attacks with horrific loses because of poor intel even in 44-45 (seelow hights for example).



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: OKH - 8 player multiplayer Axis thread (11/3/2017 5:40:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

So when the Soviets return their save to us there are no surprises. As 16th army is stretched out in regiments holding all the way from Leningrad to Moscow, the Soviets have been using them for training up units.

[image]https://i.imgur.com/c0J4YeF.png[/image]

Others have had other views on this kind of action

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
.. the loses I take for attacking regiments is F'ing RETARDED... I mean any German Regiment or Brigade the loses are insane. Like I said before I'm breaking my German units down into Regiments next time I play the Germans to entice a Russian attack. HOLY COW. Am I missing something here or is it just me the losses seem out of place compared to the loses I would get if I attacked a normal Division...There has to be something going on in the code when attacking German Regiments/Brigades....


Is this just a trade-off of losses for training up - or is there a more definitive answer for the Axis player on the break down units conundrum?

Soviet forces nearly encircled in the Valdai hills manage to extract themselves skillfully. The lake, city and swamps to the North East makes it difficult to outflank them again.

[image]https://i.imgur.com/ybjKMBi.png[/image]

North West Leningrad continues to hold out - but its demise is inevitable.



When, I mean "IF", I ever go back to playing the Germans I will break down my divisions into regiments. This frees up other divisions to ride the coat tails of the leading Panzer Divisions. Yes the Soviets will get wins but after 5 what difference does it make since the experience takes forever to catch up to the Morale. The whole time the Germans are concentrated directing their advance where it matters. The Soviets are going to get wins somewhere somehow. Why not let them attack and cause themselves more causalites imho.

Plus, if you set up correctly you can set up a trap in the North if you wanted by them attacking regiments. Let them attack a couple of times and spring a HQ build up PZ corps and either surround or semi surround those units. It is like putting a finger in a bullet wound. But to be honest at this point I would just continue with the Manpower center captures. If you do your job correctly have guards arent going to matter because the game will be over imho.



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