RE: June 1945 (Full Version)

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chaos45 -> RE: June 1945 (9/5/2018 9:33:48 PM)

Its not a great thing to do every turn, but its the only way to wear down the German infantry so you can get a breakthrough some year lol



beender -> RE: June 1945 (9/5/2018 10:37:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

What frighten me is that everyone seems to think that :
having to do 50 manualy planned raids per turn plus ton of air rotation to allow that,
is a good thing [:D]


Oh no definitely not everyone because I'm with you Stelteck[:D]

I do see a whole bunch of bomb icons in many of my games against Soviet when I opened the turn and I never was able to do the same. Such extensive bombings may explain why the German casualties were a bit higher (about 30% in total?) than expected. But I still doubt its necessity if not efficacy. Or maybe it's just an excuse for being lazy.



Stelteck -> RE: June 1945 (9/6/2018 7:03:13 AM)

I'am definitely lazy !!

I prove it this turn as i want to take picture of my order of battle i will take a little longer to do my turn sorry Stephane [sm=innocent0001.gif]



Telemecus -> RE: June 1945 (9/6/2018 10:15:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

I'am definitely lazy !!

I prove it this turn as i want to take picture of my order of battle i will take a little longer to do my turn sorry Stephane [sm=innocent0001.gif]


Your go for the 8MP team game in ten minutes still lives on in legend [:D]



Stelteck -> RE: June 1945 (9/6/2018 11:40:05 AM)

Yes i'am also doing the turn quite fast (but in a dirty way). Maybe i should calculate my average turn time for fun.



MarauderPL -> RE: June 1945 (9/6/2018 11:53:40 AM)

But that would take too much time [:D]



STEF78 -> June 1945 (9/6/2018 7:40:48 PM)

Turn 211, 28th june 1945

Heavy russian pressure South of Pripyat. 3 inf divs are surrounded. I will try to free them

lower Dniestr is crossed.I don't have any german Pzk south of Stanislav

[img]https://i.imgur.com/YAyv3UN.jpg[/img]

Total failure. I wanted to move the 5 successive stacks. I wasn't able to even move the first one...

[img]https://i.imgur.com/Jh5JE5G.jpg[/img]

Closer view of the northern part of the front. Less russian tank corps here...

[img]https://i.imgur.com/9FlKaV9.jpg[/img]

... and some counterattacks. Losses are really ugly

[img]https://i.imgur.com/t2exPvS.jpg[/img]




Stelteck -> RE: June 1945 (9/6/2018 8:57:42 PM)

Following this turn, as promise here the data for soviet army :

I have 206 rifle corps.

[image]https://tof.cx/images/2018/09/06/07a66f97ba090a9ac63d83dcb4ec28bc.jpg[/image]



Stelteck -> RE: June 1945 (9/6/2018 8:58:53 PM)

I have 43 cavalry corps.

[image]https://tof.cx/images/2018/09/06/09d266185ab1c2cd4c8ffbb81c3f9138.jpg[/image]



Stelteck -> RE: June 1945 (9/6/2018 9:01:51 PM)

I have 39 tank corps :

[image]https://tof.cx/images/2018/09/06/ea6dac3381884c465deeb089a2e03ff3.jpg[/image]

And I Have 9 mech corps :

[image]https://tof.cx/images/2018/09/06/36c6d2af3db9c35edf88e5efac4ab37c.jpg[/image]

And Last i have 61 Artillery Divisions

[image]https://tof.cx/images/2018/09/06/d538e793aa45f56418bec0ea067f060e.jpg[/image]




xhoel -> RE: June 1945 (9/6/2018 9:16:06 PM)

Great to see the new update to the AAR.
@Stelteck: The Rifle Corps are suffering a lot TOE wise aren't they? Wouldn't it be better to disband other units that you don't need to fill those TOEs up?



Stelteck -> RE: June 1945 (9/6/2018 9:18:43 PM)

Unit that i do not need ? [:D] Where.... ? I'am lacking around 100 rifle corps. [:D]



xhoel -> RE: June 1945 (9/6/2018 9:21:03 PM)

How bad is the manpower situation then? [sm=00000002.gif]



EwaldvonKleist -> RE: June 1945 (9/6/2018 9:30:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Its not a great thing to do every turn, but its the only way to wear down the German infantry so you can get a breakthrough some year lol


I have always found the bombing of German units with my tactical/dive bombers a very pleasurable and satisfying task. The perfect thing to do when you enjoy killing Axis Pixeltruppen without too much thinking. That even includes taking administrative care of the air groups , as you can witness them growing them from their infancy to a formidable force.

Of course I am also a member of the U2VS fan club.



Stelteck -> RE: June 1945 (9/6/2018 9:36:00 PM)

The looses from the start of the war :

[image]https://tof.cx/images/2018/09/06/17de17406872c3bdada479450d72aa32.jpg[/image]

Not sūre how is it compare to historical looses.

[image]https://tof.cx/images/2018/09/06/a84ba750b34f72231aa69181877a2d27.jpg[/image]

Generals get sacked all the time it is a little boring to restore them after they are dismissed periodicaly.

I have not so many good generals available. Even Jukov got dismissed around 3 times.



Stelteck -> RE: June 1945 (9/6/2018 9:41:16 PM)

The production :
I need more medium tanks.
It is impossible to use all the BM Rocket Launcher you get. I have enough yet to equip 100 more dedicated support units regiments but it would have cost me 15000 trucks.
They take quite low looses in battle. No idea if they are usefull. (I would say not really as they have low CV and the shooting phase is less important).

[image]https://tof.cx/images/2018/09/06/eebb76c1ea15faa3dfd14551376f5098.jpg[/image]

Having too much Armement points is useless.

[image]https://tof.cx/images/2018/09/06/811eb01d64db26f7910c015cb0808edf.jpg[/image]



EwaldvonKleist -> RE: June 1945 (9/6/2018 10:06:15 PM)

Edit: Figured out where the discrepancy came from, nevermind.

quote:


Do you still know if the Soviet union lost a considerable amount of armaments industry at some point after 1941?

Or do you have a shot of the Special industry screen at late 1941/early 1942?




SparkleyTits -> RE: June 1945 (9/6/2018 10:15:02 PM)

I love Rockets personally and generally choose them over a bigger tank arm if I have the opportunity to turn on the Axis manpower grind nice and early



M60A3TTS -> RE: June 1945 (9/6/2018 11:37:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
Of course I am also a member of the U2VS fan club.



I didn't hear that.



Stelteck -> RE: June 1945 (9/7/2018 7:03:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

I love Rockets personally and generally choose them over a bigger tank arm if I have the opportunity to turn on the Axis manpower grind nice and early


Why not, but how many germans are killed by these support units ? Difficult to say.



SparkleyTits -> RE: June 1945 (9/7/2018 9:06:29 AM)

Well disruption is a brilliant way to inflict extra losses so can be a great way to increase the differencials and start to drain manpower more effectively making the steamroll come sooner

Rockets are unparalled in disuprtion under the right circumstance and have a high anti soft rating so attacking lower fort levels, correct terrain type & attacking lighter elements can have some very nice effects on increased losses
They do have low range so aren't best on the defensive, their penetraion is 0 so they bad when put up against forts, their anti armour is only 25 so not great against the heavy stuff (What is though lol?)
& their truck cost is high so they definitely have disadvantages but there AOE is good and they have a lot of guns that fire so if you hold the initiative and are the one making the decisions I find they are a great weapon to have

Mix them with two ground bombing missions before an attack in an unstatic front (Translates into average lower fort levels) and the Axis will find it hard to keep themselves from degrading that precious manpower

If you aren't in the driving seat quite nicely though I find they are not as averagely powerful a weapon as you will have less options to get the best out of them.
In that case I would prefer to put my resources elsewhere



Stelteck -> RE: June 1945 (9/7/2018 9:37:07 AM)

Your analysis is sound but based on the analysis of the data of the units. It is 100% theoretical. I do not think we really know practically how these parameters are used in the code.

We especially do not know at all how many german will be disrupted/damaged/killed by this support unit in an average battle. How many combat value the enemy unit will be reduced by this support units ?
It is what i mean when i said we do not know if the unit is efficient. There is no feedback about it. We have no idea if the price is justified.

(Especially as the unit compete against buying on map brigades, divisions and corps. ).



SparkleyTits -> RE: June 1945 (9/7/2018 9:59:08 AM)

Well if you want actual performance data you can watch battles reports on higher numbers to get an idea on how each element performs independantly

Cross reference that with a units stats (If you see one of your units kill, disable multiple units then it is ROF or AOE etc) and you can get a rough idea
You do have to watch quite a few battles that take ages though and I know that is perhaps not your cup of tea!
Another option is just through mass repetition of natural play and testing as you go along



Telemecus -> RE: June 1945 (9/7/2018 10:28:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
Of course I am also a member of the U2VS fan club.



I didn't hear that.



I have incriminating screenshots of you too. [:D]



M60A3TTS -> RE: June 1945 (9/7/2018 10:56:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
Of course I am also a member of the U2VS fan club.



I didn't hear that.



I have incriminating screenshots of you too. [:D]



Here, have some free intel

[image]https://i.imgur.com/4fSfL7L.jpg[/image]



topeverest -> RE: June 1945 (9/7/2018 5:14:00 PM)

There seems to be a robust excesses built into the soviet production schema in resources, supplies, and armaments.

Is there any real effect to having saved too many armaments, unless HI is smashed in 41?

Looks like the Soviets need only about 250 -- 260

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

Having too much Armement points is useless.

[image]https://tof.cx/images/2018/09/06/811eb01d64db26f7910c015cb0808edf.jpg[/image]




chaos45 -> RE: June 1945 (9/7/2018 5:34:26 PM)

The super massive amount of extra armaments points is due to the reduced soviet manpower replacements as well as the limits that were put in place on artillery building.

Also keep in mind this game is in mid 1945 now....so past the normal end of the war.

Stef got far more land/manpower centers than historical so this also plays a factor...you can see Stelteck is short manpower. The Soviets if they lose to much manpower in effect cannot win the game in its current form...or really for the past 3-4 major patches. The game has really become about encircling a lot of soviets in 1941 because they have to fight for some locations...then taking those locations which smashes the Soviets ability to recruit manpower for the long game and gives the Germans extra manpower from Hiwis. Its creates a huge power swing in favor of the Germans that against well matched players the Soviets cannot recover from.

With well matched players now seeing the lose of both Leningrad and Moscow in 1941 the effect is the soviet player is losing entire fronts of men over the long game they no longer have access to. Not to mention that but in the way back machine when the soviets got reduced replacements in .07 if I remember right whats left of the soviet union doesn't provide enough manpower to recover. An as I mentioned it also provides more replacements via Hiwis for the Germans meaning the soviets also have a much harder time reducing the German army to take anything back.

As many have noted over the years some things in this game cause snowballs a player cannot recover from. Its why I gave up vs Beender on T17....did I still have an army- kinda but the lack of manpower would have made a come back impossible....as the manpower generation of the soviet army is extremely weak if you lose more than historical ground. Which is almost sure to happen against a German player with a good knowledge of the game.



topeverest -> RE: June 1945 (9/7/2018 7:04:16 PM)

Very helpful - thanks


quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

The super massive amount of extra armaments points is due to the reduced soviet manpower replacements as well as the limits that were put in place on artillery building.

Also keep in mind this game is in mid 1945 now....so past the normal end of the war.

Stef got far more land/manpower centers than historical so this also plays a factor...you can see Stelteck is short manpower. The Soviets if they lose to much manpower in effect cannot win the game in its current form...or really for the past 3-4 major patches. The game has really become about encircling a lot of soviets in 1941 because they have to fight for some locations...then taking those locations which smashes the Soviets ability to recruit manpower for the long game and gives the Germans extra manpower from Hiwis. Its creates a huge power swing in favor of the Germans that against well matched players the Soviets cannot recover from.

With well matched players now seeing the lose of both Leningrad and Moscow in 1941 the effect is the soviet player is losing entire fronts of men over the long game they no longer have access to. Not to mention that but in the way back machine when the soviets got reduced replacements in .07 if I remember right whats left of the soviet union doesn't provide enough manpower to recover. An as I mentioned it also provides more replacements via Hiwis for the Germans meaning the soviets also have a much harder time reducing the German army to take anything back.

As many have noted over the years some things in this game cause snowballs a player cannot recover from. Its why I gave up vs Beender on T17....did I still have an army- kinda but the lack of manpower would have made a come back impossible....as the manpower generation of the soviet army is extremely weak if you lose more than historical ground. Which is almost sure to happen against a German player with a good knowledge of the game.





M60A3TTS -> RE: June 1945 (9/7/2018 7:15:17 PM)

Here I will disagree with Chaos that the Soviets don't get enough manpower in the narrow sense that in this game an army of 8 million plus is hardly small. No, in my view the issue can be seen in this example.

[image]https://i.imgur.com/Yyzu8tr.jpg[/image]

I could use a number of 4-letter words to describe what this represents, but as they say- a picture is worth a thousand words. Unless this conflict solely involved foam pellet guns, somebody needed to die here on the German side. If the combat engine regularly generates these no/low loss fantasy results, the Soviet players in a battle of equals are going to struggle as the game exists today. The caps put in place do what they were designed to do, in keeping the Red Army a manageable size, but the Axis really don't have similar constraints. I could argue that any number of these 1942 German replacement units might never have been sent to the east, had not the heavy casualties necessitated the moves after the winter of 1941-42.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: June 1945 (9/7/2018 7:43:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

Here I will disagree with Chaos that the Soviets don't get enough manpower in the narrow sense that in this game an army of 8 million plus is hardly small. No, in my view the issue can be seen in this example.

[image]https://i.imgur.com/Yyzu8tr.jpg[/image]

I could use a number of 4-letter words to describe what this represents, but as they say- a picture is worth a thousand words. Unless this conflict solely involved foam pellet guns, somebody needed to die here on the German side. If the combat engine regularly generates these no/low loss fantasy results, the Soviet players in a battle of equals are going to struggle as the game exists today. The caps put in place do what they were designed to do, in keeping the Red Army a manageable size, but the Axis really don't have similar constraints. I could argue that any number of these 1942 German replacement units might never have been sent to the east, had not the heavy casualties necessitated the moves after the winter of 1941-42.


Perfect example of German PAnzers as Supermen. This really has to be fixed and M60 brings up an excellent point. I have been alone in the dark shouting for so long this that it hurts.



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