RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (Full Version)

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GetAssista -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/7/2017 11:32:38 AM)

One DD is an acceptable price for the information that CV is in the area. It could've caught your heavy ships instead, or worse your amphib force. How many planes were there in one phase of attack and what kind of planes? Quantities/types can tell you a lot about the composition of enemy CV force.
For your subs, you have a choice of either using them as an observation force, spreading them out and paying attention to their detection levels and planes they spot to deduce the location of enemy CVs. Then move in while CVs are away replenishing. Or try to actively hunt with subs + maintain Kiska blocade. Can't do both at the same time.
Stepping up naval search, preferrably from Adak, goes without saying



Energisteron -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/7/2017 7:05:04 PM)

Hi Get Assista

Agreed. Those seem to be my options.

I intended posting further data in my last post so that will be amended shortly.

Graphic added to earlier post for May 23 AAR.



Energisteron -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/7/2017 9:40:15 PM)

Day 39 - May 24 (D+17)

Poor weather perhaps prevents the possible enemy CV TF from intervening during the day. We see nothing of it at all. The 2x larger subs are dispatched to intercept if possible. All subs on patrol are vectored west of Attu leaving only surface ships to lay siege to Kiska.

The 3rd Wave amphibious TF arrives at Kiska and begins discharging over the beach. The enemy respond with significant artillery fire causing casualties but no ships are hit. The beachhead forces postpone their offensive due to the poor weather. Both sides bombard with little effect.

The latest bombardment TF approaches Kiska and is expected to attack overnight.

Liberators from Dutch Harbor continue strikes on Kiska, hitting yet another SSX midget sub and destroying it outright.



Bif1961 -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/7/2017 11:44:48 PM)

From what you posted the DD Hull was sunk by a torpedo carrying Betty escorted by Zeros. What makes you think there are enemy carriers about?



Cap Mandrake -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/8/2017 3:20:02 AM)

Agreed, that is a Betty attack. There is an actual photograph. That is just the price of doing business. Bettys will only rarely hit DD's operating on their own unless they are elite flying-circus magicians.



Energisteron -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/8/2017 6:00:37 AM)

Hi Bif1961 and Cap Mandrake

The graphic displaying the air attack indicated a route from about 280 degrees relative to the 3xDD TF which was at Attu Island (in that hex). the red line faded out after about 3 hexes in that direction.

Does that mean anything at all?



BBfanboy -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/8/2017 6:54:44 AM)

The back-bearing from 280 degrees at Attu takes you to the lower Kuriles. Bettys can carry torpedoes a considerable distance - I don't have the hex range at hand right now.



Energisteron -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/8/2017 7:23:34 AM)

Hi BBfanboy

A type-1 Betty has a normal radius of 17 hexes but can extend to 21 hexes at a pinch! Zeros have a radius of 5 hexes extended with drop-tanks to 8 hexes.

So, the Bettys could have come all the way from Paramushiro-jima. The escorting Zeros could have joined them from Attu Island. That makes sense. So, I'll reduce my estimated probability of there being a Japanese CV on the loose.

Perhaps the raid was in response to the quick passage of the CA CL TF and they hoped to have a crack at one of them?



BBfanboy -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/8/2017 7:33:27 AM)

I checked your first page and it does not say if you are playing a human opponent or the AI. I am assuming AI.

The AI scripts commonly include reactions to detection of valuable ships, so if a carrier was spotted by a sub, the AI would try to send its own carriers, aircraft, subs and perhaps SCTFs to attack it. In this scenario, the bombardment BBs may have caused the AI to set a naval attack to try and catch them, but your DDs were the first thing spotted by search so that is what the Bettys attacked.
The AI will probably send other forces as it gets them, rather than waiting until it gets a big hammer to hit you with. You should be able to handle them with minimal losses.



Energisteron -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/8/2017 7:44:29 AM)

Yes, it's an AI opponent.

This started as a 'I need help understanding what's going on' thread in general discussion, then I was politely advised to put it in AARs. As a novice at this game I am finding the AI a reasonable opponent. Certainly it seems not to have done anything idiotic!



Energisteron -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/8/2017 8:44:07 AM)

Day 40 - May 25 (D+18)

On the basis that the probability of the presence of an enemy CV is now low, the BB bombardment group moves in overnight and conducts attack on Kiska with good results. Likewise, the 3rd wave amphibious TF continues unloading and still runs the gauntlet of artillery fire on the run-in to the beach.

Pacific HQ is loaded on APAs and will sail for Adak tomorrow.

Beachhead remains on defensive. Air-strikes continue from Adak and Dutch Harbor.

[image]local://upfiles/57059/E05F5E192EAB46ABAB9A6C3E56A0058B.jpg[/image]



Energisteron -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/8/2017 9:42:59 AM)

Day 41 - May 26 (D+19)

Success! But what a price we paid?

[image]local://upfiles/57059/73D01747AED3425291E3BF62BA8F34BF.jpg[/image]



Energisteron -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/8/2017 10:04:08 AM)

Day 42 - May 27

Never known such a quiet day! No retaliation from the enemy.

A Japanese Recon aircraft is shot down over Kiska that's all.

We use this lull to rest and refit our bomber groups, move a Group of 18x Warhawks to Kiska, and to continue unloading and supplying Kiska. CVE Nassau leaves Dutch Harbor to operate near Kiska. Badly needed fuel and supplies sent to Kiska garrison.



BBfanboy -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/8/2017 2:27:29 PM)

I presume you are playing a stock scenario without stacking limits? If you are playing one of the versions where stacking limits were added, check the limit at Kiska before you unload the NorPac HQ there.

Good job on that invasion overall!. Looking at the list of forces the Japanese had, your bombardments by air and sea were what tipped the balance in your favour, plus perhaps the supply shortage from your sinking IJN ships. Well done! [sm=happy0065.gif]



Energisteron -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/8/2017 8:11:49 PM)

Thanks, BBfanboy

As far as I know, I am playing the standard scenario as came with the game download. Settings are 'Normal' (or Historic) with a +/- 15 day reinforcement variability.

Where would I find the stacking limits?




Energisteron -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/8/2017 8:26:44 PM)

Time to review the overall position.

Since it's taken us 41 days to conquer Kiska, it would seem highly unlikely that Attu can be gained in the remaining 20 days, especially as there is every likelihood it is even better defended than Kiska!

Additionally, naval operations around Attu are likely to come under air attack from-land based bombers at P-jima.

Also, neither Adak nor Kiska are sufficiently developed to permit the level of air operations required or to act as a forward supply base of any importance.

So, it seems I'm for the chop when the time limit expires. However I am not going to risk our boys lives in a futile gesture by making a rushed invasion of Attu Island. I'd rather lose my job than be guilty of such an indiscretion!

So, I'll assess and plan and make progress if possible but not in any rush.

Here's the current 'score'

[image]local://upfiles/57059/06DD57DD0A1449D78E1DDF267E0D42AB.jpg[/image]



Energisteron -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/8/2017 9:28:13 PM)

Day 43 - May 28

Another quiet day. Just some Emily Recon aircraft over Kiska and Adak. Naval operations continue unchanged.

No change to Recon. Ground forces recuperate while Engineers start work on making good Kiska as a base.



Energisteron -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/8/2017 9:38:49 PM)

Day 44 - May 29

Oil and supplies unloading over beach at Kiska. Dock is so small none of the ships can dock! NthPac HQ and Sea Bees already ashore and their APAs returning to Dutch Harbor.

CVE Nassau approaches patrol zone just south of Kiska. Its mission to provide CAP for Kiska.

Nothing else of note.



BBfanboy -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/9/2017 2:10:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Energisteron

Thanks, BBfanboy

As far as I know, I am playing the standard scenario as came with the game download. Settings are 'Normal' (or Historic) with a +/- 15 day reinforcement variability.

Where would I find the stacking limits?



Stacking limits everywhere is a mod that started with the Da Big Babes scenarios. This is a user-developed set of scenarios that is best described by the authors here: https://sites.google.com/site/dababeswitpae/home

I say "everywhere" because the stock game does have stacking limits on small-medium sized islands and atolls, but there are none on land masses in stock. The stacking limits map has a limit for every land hex that radically changes the land combat portion of the game. If you exceed the stacking limit by too much, your supplies get penalized.

In addition to the stacking limits on the stock map, an "extended" map was developed to add more bases here and there - like Subic Bay next to Clark Field, rather than Clark Field having a port as it does in stock. So there are four different pwhex data files for the four types of map:
- stock map without stacking limits
- stock map with stacking limits
-extended map without stacking limits
-extended map with stacking limits

Note that this has nothing to do with how pretty the map picture is - those are art files that are there to make the game pleasing to you but they mean nothing to the game program - it uses the data in the pwhex file. This means you can download any map art set that matches your type of map, and just replace the current map art to get a new view on screen, but the game mechanics stay the same. The trouble comes if your art set does not match the pwhex file in the same folder.

To see an example of this underlying data, press the "R" key to display the road system the way the game program sees it, or "Y" to see the railway system.

BTW, the smaller scenarios such as the 1000 mile war use the same map as the grand campaign but put limits on how much of the map you use.



Energisteron -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/9/2017 7:10:53 AM)

Thanks BBfanboy

That's very interesting. Yes, I would prefer there to be more widespread stacking limits. Does this apply to ships in bays too?

I'll refer back to that data when this is complete.

I've modified other games in the past as well as creating new scenarios but I'm not sure how this one is set-up. Can I have all these different maps / rules accessible in just the one game install or must I create multiple installs?

Can I create an 'active folder' for the type of map/rules I want and then relabel the others so they're not used?

As an aside, I've noticed a slight oddity which has had no detrimental effect to date with this scenario; a 'rogue TF' entirely inaccessible to my control has appeared on the top edge of the map. I cannot get any listing for it at all. It hasn't moved and just stays on that fringe. Has this ever happened before?




Energisteron -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/9/2017 9:05:55 AM)

Day 45 - May 30

Another exceptionally quiet day EXCEPT for startling possibilities raised by radio intercepts!

It seems there could be an enemy CA (Maya) lurking to the south with a screen of subs ahead of it. Now, we had reports of a freighter south of Kiska a while ago. Was that report in error and was that actually a CA?

If it is there, what is its mission? Is it a lure to tempt out my BB and CA? Is there a battlegroup out there?

This will need further investigation tomorrow.

Air-groups are re-jigged a bit with a small number of PBYs going to Kiska which badly needs aviation support. Maybe I'll have to reduce efforts at Dutch Harbor and move some air support guys to Kiska and Adak. Also, we will try a night raid by Venturas, flying high, over Attu. Recon of Attu by CVE Wildcats will continue. Liberators are refitting but weather too bad for them to stretch from Dutch to Attu.

Ground units in reserve are all now gearing up for Attu should our invasion go ahead.

[image]local://upfiles/57059/52259B0B48DB4B07A426C0A216D74EFE.jpg[/image]



Energisteron -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/9/2017 10:20:06 AM)

Day 46 - May 31

We spot a few enemy aircraft flying about but not much else. Again though there's sightings of subs south of Dutch Harbor, and radio intercepts another CA may be down there.

This time I will bite!

All my invasion escorts are back at Dutch Harbor, intact and replenished, along with some fine surface naval units. I create 3xTF; a BB surface combat group which will head out southwards while a faster CA TF will move out northwards and circle back to the west of the BBs. Hopefully, if any enemy CAs are there they'll retreat SW and our CAs can catch them. Both combat groups are escorted by 4xDD of suitable speed. A 4xDD sub hunter group will patrol ahead of the BBs. A couple of Canadian Corvettes will rigorously check around Dutch Harbor itself.

[image]local://upfiles/57059/77C728673A0C49D4BD6EADC1D9CD58CC.jpg[/image]



Energisteron -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/9/2017 10:40:18 AM)

Day 47 - Jun 01

Well my jaws close on nothing! Signals traffic much reduced. Seemingly still some subs out there but maybe nothing else.

Terrible weather prohibits all but the most urgent air ops. We lose a pilot on recon over Attu.

No direct contacts at sea.

[image]local://upfiles/57059/6C13661502884309BFD0B2FF2B214AA3.jpg[/image]



Energisteron -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/9/2017 10:51:19 AM)

Day 48 - Jun 02

Poor weather continues but we get some recon done, and finally the Venturas make a night attack on Attu without loss. One flight of just 3x Venturas goes in at 16k ft, and another that must have got lost along the way turns up later all alone and gets a nice hit on the runway. Another citation is due I think.

An enemy TF of 4xships (?) is possibly sighted just south of Adak! If genuine, could these be the CA we have been chasing south of Dutch Harbor? Are they heading straight for our CVE?

With bad weather continuing, CVE Nassau will move SW during the night as a precaution, and abandon its CAP duties to Kiska. The 4xDD TF will race over to join it as extra cover. The BB will go back to base. The CAs will move towards Kiska via Adak.

[image]local://upfiles/57059/156D8E2E4D984F2889CB9FD4654FB833.jpg[/image]



Energisteron -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/9/2017 11:12:38 AM)

Day 49 -Jun 03

CVE moves SW and stays out of trouble (if there was any trouble to be had?), and is joined by 4xDDs. The BBs return to base undamaged. The CAs make a sweep past Adak towards Kiska but find nothing hindered by their inability to launch spotters in such bad weather.

Weather prevents another night raid on Attu



Energisteron -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/9/2017 1:58:02 PM)

Since the two 'nibbling' night raids against Attu have met no opposition I'd like to undertake a maximum effort raid with my Liberators at night.

The problem is that they can't quite reach Attu from Dutch Harbor especially given continuing poor weather, and yet the airbases at Adak and Kiska are hopelessly inadequate and are going to take months to upgrade.

So, I ask, can I do a sort of hop into Adak, take on a bit more fuel, and then continue on to Attu Island?



Cap Mandrake -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/9/2017 2:36:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Energisteron

Since the two 'nibbling' night raids against Attu have met no opposition I'd like to undertake a maximum effort raid with my Liberators at night.

The problem is that they can't quite reach Attu from Dutch Harbor especially given continuing poor weather, and yet the airbases at Adak and Kiska are hopelessly inadequate and are going to take months to upgrade.

So, I ask, can I do a sort of hop into Adak, take on a bit more fuel, and then continue on to Attu Island?


No, you can stage bombers at a forward base but they will suffer all the penalties for using a smaller base and may not be able to take off at all. This is realistic as a bomber can't safely land with a full bomb load under normal circumstances in real life. B-24's need a level 5 field (as I recall) to even to start a bombing mission even at reduced bomb load.



Cap Mandrake -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/9/2017 2:40:08 PM)

Depending on enemy fighter strength and type, the B-24's might be able to get
through in a daylight raid without fighter escort or you might be able to stage
fighters at forward bases and assign them the mission of escorting the mission (often this goes awry unless the fighters and bombers are under the same Air HQ and in command).

Even better is to sweep with high quality fighters for 1-2 days to attrit and
fatigue the enemy fighters. You can order sweep missions from a level 2 field but might need good supply for drop tanks. If you have P-38's, use them.



Energisteron -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/9/2017 7:31:07 PM)

Day 50 - Jun 04

Nothing of note to report. Weather prevents any air raids on Attu. No contacts at sea.

[image]local://upfiles/57059/44673C5FE4554D0F83F3508BFCCA755C.jpg[/image]



BBfanboy -> RE: 1000 mile war - liberating the Aleutians (7/9/2017 8:39:43 PM)

Ah, the wonders of Allied Intel. When they report an IJN CA making a radio transmission from your main base you have to have a large chunk of salt ready! [:D]

As you have seen, you wasted a lot of fuel chasing rumours. Use your subs or small fry to confirm reports that really concern you and ignore most of the stuff that does not concern your situation.

Re: your ships in harbour question, there are no stacking limits. The developers presumed that if the harbour got full the ships could just anchor in the approaches to the port. A 40 nm wide hex is a huge amount of ocean!

Re: installing other mods - you CAN have various folders for the different mods under just one installed game, but that would limit you to playing just one type of game at a time, unless you want to go renaming sub-folders all the time. Most veteran players have separate installs - much easier to keep track of and update. You just have to give the installer a different location to install and rename your shortcut to the game to indicate which mod it is.

Re: the situation where you thought there was a CA screened by subs: Sending BBs through a screen of subs is risky. Torpedoes are one of the few thing BBs really need to fear. If you think there might be subs, use waypoints to take a detour around, of just ask if the potential gain is worth the risk to your major ships.

Re: BB Pennsylvania: Once you get the "no further repairs" message you should switch her back to "Readiness" instead of "Pierside" to avoid tying up port repair capacity - unless ... the remaining damage is "Engineering" major damage which can be fixed by an AR. If you have an AR at DH and it is not currently busy with another ship, click on Pennsylvania's repair mode until it shows the Repair Ship and gives a timeline for the repair.
If the problem is major floatation damage over 5, that can only be repaired in a large enough shipyard or a large enough ARD (drydock repair ship).
Major floatation damage 5 and under can usually be repaired in a level 7 port or smaller port with lots of naval support. Check for the biggest port you have in this scenario - Anchorage? Prince Rupert?

Re: the TF on the map edge that you cannot access: this happens when ships are withdrawing to an off-map base for repairs or are just fleeing the enemy. The TF is out of the scenario and unlikely to return before it ends. The map edge is used like the holding box for the grand campaign map - showing the ships in transit but inaccessible to further orders.

Re: the Venturas - yes, they have a good bomb load, but they are usually intended for ASW or Naval Attack work. Check the pilot stats and if they have high skills in those areas, use them thus.

Re: the Liberators: Cap Mandrake is right - you need a level 5 base to take off with a full bomb load. You can operate off a level, 2, 3, or 4 AF with a reduced load but expect your operational losses to be high, your strikes to be uncoordinated and repair times to be very long. If your B-24s cannot hit Attu, consider having them do Naval Search until Adak is ready for them.




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