"It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A)

"It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (Full Version)

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ny59giants -> "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/25/2017 12:05:30 PM)
This is my fourth re-start versus Gen Patton (Brian). Our first game was RHS, but the economics were not something I could agree with. Next, we came back to BTS Lite which I had helped develop with John 3rd. First attempt got to Dec 42, but I was wondering why my economy was messed up. Found out that Heavy Industry (HI) was requiring 4 vs 2 fuel. Fixed that and did our third re-start. This got to May 42 and then found out the Resources wasn't right for HI and LI. Doing research between Scen 2, DBB, RA and BTS led to many corrections to finally get the economy running smoothly. Since Treaty, RA, and BTS mods are all based on DBB with reduced cargo capacity and no supply generated from Refineries, I was able to get the parameters for this mod (BTS Lite Scen 57) adjusted, but included was turning back on Refinery supply generation. However, Brian asked for a reduction in garrison requirements in China and India that were much lower than what John 3rd wanted (I agree, too). I saved this mod in slot 60 and added a few more tweaks than John's version has at his website (I'll get into some of them later). Current date in 14 June '42. Brian and his wife just got back from a week long trip to central Florida. This is my only PBEM and during weekdays we usually get a morning and evening turn in while on weekends it can be 3 to 5 turns (we have gotten in a month of turns during a 10 day stay-cation once). I like this pace and will try to keep that up while doing this AAR. I've only gotten to April '44 in PBEM as Japan many, many years ago before my opponent stopped game due to RL issues. I love, love Tracker and wouldn't try Japan without it. [&o] [&o] My economy is humming along right now, but I want input on it and other military matters from other Japanese players so I can try to last past 1 Sept '45. If I surrender before then, I've lost IMO. Brian, please make your one and only comment so I can talk freely about issues. Banzai!! Banzai!! Banzai!!

ny59giants -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTS Lite NY59Giants (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/25/2017 12:06:58 PM)
House Rules: If there are any mistakes Brian, please let me know. quote: Mike (NY59Giants) vs Brian (Gen Patton) HR'S: 1. Non historic first turn. 2. On turn 1 allied player can move TF's at sea and Chinese air and ground units. 3. No CV hunting till Dec 12th. 4. Pay political points to cross national borders. Exception, Thai unit, May only operate in Thailand or Burma. 5. 1 Major CV air attack on Dec 7th. (Hitting both Manilla and PH is 2 PH strikes) LBA strikes OK. 6. No 4E naval attacks below 10k. Army planes only, both sides. Navy planes OK, both sides. 7. Set auto replacement and upgrade to off. 8. Aircraft and ship upgrades off 9. PDU on 10. No warp invasions.

ny59giants -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTS Lite NY59Giants (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/25/2017 12:13:24 PM)
There have been two one sided naval battles to date. [image]local://upfiles/15133/87B081E82BDD42ED806B1165432A44DA.jpg[/image]

ny59giants -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTS Lite NY59Giants (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/25/2017 12:15:36 PM)
Heavy and Light Cruisers sunk [image]local://upfiles/15133/53C7DDA7D98C4063846326185424258B.jpg[/image]

ny59giants -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTS Lite NY59Giants (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/25/2017 12:27:40 PM)
What do I need to change here?? [image]local://upfiles/15133/E3953570313C4702A3B2FFFFFF4413BE.jpg[/image]

PaxMondo -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTS Lite NY59Giants (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/25/2017 4:12:58 PM)
OK, June 42. You guys tried to make changes to the economy, but from your chart it looks like you are back to stock. My comments will be based upon a Scen 1 game. You will have to interpret to your mod ... sorry, not familiar with this mod. From my perspective, and this is me but this is your game so use this as you please and you know I tend to be rather direct so no offense in my comments intended... Your HI is low, really low. And it is low because you are only saving 1500/day => 45K/mo, BUT your pilot training cost is 30K/mo. Ignore my response in the other thread, where I had not seen this chart ... Why is this? It looks as though you have chosen to greatly expand your AC production on early war models. 57 AC/day + 65 Eng is huge at 6/42. You are safely double, and almost triple the production rates I choose. Anyway, that is what I see here ... use as you see fit. No worries....

Cap Mandrake -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/25/2017 5:12:20 PM)
"It's the economy stupid" Haha...I'm old enough to get the joke.

ny59giants -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/25/2017 6:17:50 PM)
Pax - I'm only paying about 10k per month in HI for pilots.

ny59giants -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/25/2017 6:24:18 PM)
quote: "It's the economy stupid" Haha...I'm old enough to get the joke. Most of my co-workers wouldn't. [:(] They have a BS or MSW (or other mental health) with maybe a few years of experience. So, they cannot be told jokes with a date before 2000.

btd64 -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/25/2017 7:32:07 PM)
John, HR's look fine. As this is my only appearance here, I will say this, just wait until................................................................. It will be a different game then. This message has been edited for Operational Security.[:D] John, no more restarts.[;)]....GP

ny59giants -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/25/2017 7:47:20 PM)
Here are my actual airframe production right now. Do I need to turn anything else off? I have the 120 size A6M2 factory turned off (246 in pool). The size 60 factory of Vals is turned off (90 in pool). [image]local://upfiles/15133/1692307A13864F1F950CBC995B20FB5A.jpg[/image]

PaxMondo -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/25/2017 11:56:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ny59giants Pax - I'm only paying about 10k per month in HI for pilots. Mmmm, diagram shows 30790 .... disconnect. can't say where ... but the math on the diagram is correct 6000 pilots @ 5 HI each = 30K

ny59giants -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/26/2017 1:23:53 AM)
India: One of the main reason's I've started this AAR is what has happened in India/Burma. I've notices in our other games, Brian (Gen Patton) has forward deployed in Burma. I allowed him to do so again hoping he would pay a steep price. June 12 at the dot base called Tezpur, my forces closed the circle by either gaining control of the hexsides (4) and having troops in the other (2). They crossed the river and occupy the hex due East of base. My first attack occurs after weeks of LBA attacks have destroyed his supplies. quote: Ground combat at Tezpur (60,36) Japanese Deliberate attack Attacking force 62201 troops, 654 guns, 799 vehicles, Assault Value = 2106 Defending force 64118 troops, 820 guns, 1219 vehicles, Assault Value = 1227 Japanese adjusted assault: 2119 Allied adjusted defense: 103 Japanese assault odds: 20 to 1 (fort level 1) Japanese forces CAPTURE Tezpur !!! Combat modifiers Defender: disruption(-), preparation(-), fatigue(-), morale(-) experience(-), supply(-) Attacker: Japanese ground losses: 913 casualties reported Squads: 4 destroyed, 86 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 28 disabled Engineers: 1 destroyed, 15 disabled Guns lost 15 (1 destroyed, 14 disabled) Vehicles lost 61 (4 destroyed, 57 disabled) Allied ground losses: 58628 casualties reported Squads: 2476 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 5465 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 335 destroyed, 0 disabled Guns lost 1123 (1123 destroyed, 0 disabled) Vehicles lost 622 (622 destroyed, 0 disabled) Units destroyed 37 Assaulting units: 6th Tank Regiment 10th Tank Regiment 29th Ind Engineer Regiment 2nd Tank Regiment 18th Division 7th Tank Regiment 20th Division 12th Tank Regiment 5th Division 38th Division 21st/A Division 4th Ind Com Engineer Regiment 22nd Medium Field Artillery Regiment 25th Army 3rd Hvy.Artillery Regiment 2nd Hvy.Artillery Regiment 1st Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion Botanko Hvy Gun Regiment 4th RF Gun Battalion 4th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment 5th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion 36th Field AA Battalion Defending units: 9th Indian Division BFF Brigade 7th Indian Division 7th Armoured Brigade 255th Armoured Brigade 19th Indian Division 1st Burma Division 254th Armoured Brigade 1st Gloucestershire Battalion 18th British Division 46th Indian Brigade 17th Indian Division 1st Bengal Base Force 221 Group Base Force 84th Indian Brigade 1st Burma Auxiliary AA Regiment 9th Burma Rifles Battalion 225 Group RAF 106th RAF Base Force 77th Heavy AA Regiment 110th RAF Adv Base Force 221 RAF Base Force 27th Australian Brigade 104th RAF Base Force 308th Base Group 1st Indian Light AA Regiment 1st Indian Heavy AA Regiment 108th RAF Base Force 107th RAF Base Force 225 RAF Base Force 6th Burma Rifles Battalion 4th Assam Rifles Battalion 221 Group RAF 48th Light AA Regiment 4th Burma Rifles Battalion 6th Heavy AA Regiment 109th RAF Adv Base Force March 10th - Japanese forces land at Diamond Harbor March 19th - Calcutta falls!! No damage to Industry!! [:)] April '42 - The battered Allied forces are pushed North and then East of Calcutta. Japanese tanks eventually gain control of hexsides and the following troops are destroyed: 20 & 23 Ind Div; 75, 23, 36 Brigades. Later in the month, Brian send the 7 Aus Div and the two brigades of the 6 Aus Div along the coast to Cuttack. My LBA hits them hard as he is outside LRCAP range and two BB TFs of 4 CL and 2 BBs land 6" and 14" shells on him almost daily. They are destroyed before they reach Viza. May 11th - Some troops from greater Calcutta and the 55th ID from Burma (via Aykab) link up and isolate Chittagong. He has 11 Ind div, 44 & 45 Brigades destroyed. Mid-June 42 - He now has 70 Brit Div, 26 & 36 Ind Div, and handful of Brigades left plus whatever Americans he has sent to India. His Air force has been MIA for weeks. Mine is resting. What would you do now?? [&:] [image]local://upfiles/15133/BED321F170A4490FBD9B751FC4D6310B.jpg[/image]

John 3rd -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/26/2017 2:31:36 AM)
Just got off the phone with Michael and I suggested one of two routes: 1. GOT FOR IT! With these catastrophic losses try to take ALL of India. Do it for fun... OR 2. Shift areas of operation and go after Australia seeking to administer more drubbing of Allied units that have extreme issues with squad replacements.

CaptBeefheart -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/26/2017 2:34:34 AM)
Wow, it looks like you could take all of India after snuffing out that big stack at Tezpur. How does the rest of the world look? Cheers, CC

PaxMondo -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/26/2017 3:14:41 AM)
Well, monstrous victory! [&o][&o][&o] Taking and holding Calcutta area for 12 months is huge in terms of economy. It means you get all that Magwe oil that historically wasn't really able to be taken. There are a number of avenues open to you, I will only offer this: keep the initiative if you can through '43. You are positioned to do so IF you can keep the allies reacting to you. The danger of staying in India is that they do to you exactly what you just did. The way you prevent it is by not allowing him to accumulate enough hidden strength to do it. If you keep him reacting, keep his forces out in the clear, that can't happen. You can then contract at your timing, not his. Now some more good news for you: your economy can handle the aircraft that you have built at this point. The extra HI/LI that you have taken will generate the HI and supply to recoup those expenditures. You do need to look at those pilot pools though. 6000 pilots will eat 30 HI/month and that you simply cannot afford.

rustysi -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/26/2017 3:54:16 AM)
quote: Your HI is low, really low. Pax. His HI is 15800/day, that's low? I've never gone much over 15k. ????

PaxMondo -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/26/2017 5:19:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rustysi quote: Your HI is low, really low. Pax. His HI is 15800/day, that's low? I've never gone much over 15k. ???? No his net per month is low because he has his AC factories and pilot pools so large. 15800 gross per day 1500 net per day (AC factories eating a lot of HI) 15000 net per month ( pilots eating 30K) At least that's what I'm seeing, but my eyes ain't near what they were ...

ny59giants -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/26/2017 11:04:03 AM)
No China: The only other major theater highly active is China. Operation "Squeeze" continues as I focus on capturing Brian's economic assets here. I've played the Allies too often to know that the biggest challenge here is SUPPLIES! Part of the reason I did invade India was economics. Take away the Allied ability to fly in supplies from Ledo. Check. Now, to capture his important bases like Lanchow to cut off fuel to feed to HI. Very northern China - I have a Tk Rgt, 2x armored car, ID, and a few of those small Chinese bde up there with zero supplies. I've been returning to Korea with supplies after dropping off resources, but its all hold up in Manchuria. Any way to get some up to my starving troops?? [&:] [image]local://upfiles/15133/0AC9DD68794A4343BA9BA4A325220BA6.jpg[/image]

ny59giants -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/26/2017 11:22:03 AM)
So China: My divisions involved in the siege of Wenchow have recovered. They are to west of Canton and will attack the five bases in CCW direction (see numbers). This is the southern half of Operation "Squeeze." [image]local://upfiles/15133/FA482B4E5DAA4E5FB6150599D22BDF71.jpg[/image]

Chickenboy -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/26/2017 1:15:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ny59giants What would you do now?? [&:] I'd get the **** out. I hate fighting in India. The rail network allows for Allied counterattack, infinite supply and access to an adjacent impenetrable off-map wormhole. Other than liquidating Ceylon and back-filling the far NE in India, the subcontinent is a veritable sink of manpower for the Japanese. Me no likee.

GetAssista -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/26/2017 1:50:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ny59giants June 12 at the dot base called Tezpur... Ouch! The date that will truly live in infamy. Go for Greater India, isolate Karachi with KB. At minimum you will draw out his carriers quote: ORIGINAL: ny59giants Any way to get some up to my starving troops?? Crank sliders up in Kweisui/Paotow for couple turns then release and hope for the best. quote: ORIGINAL: ny59giants Most of my co-workers wouldn't. [:(] They have a BS or MSW (or other mental health) with maybe a few years of experience. So, they cannot be told jokes with a date before 2000. I was staring for a few seconds comprehending what kind of mental health disorders are those abbreviations and where the heck do you work with such coworkers [:D]

Chickenboy -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/26/2017 1:59:42 PM)
I typed up a long version of what I didn't like with your aircraft production system, but the system ate it. My observations/ opinions are similar to PaxMondo's impressions. ETA: I'll try again here in brief. Decide on a primary IJAAF platform and build it to about half the level current. I wouldn't keep my Lily, Sally and Helen production simultaneously running-I'd focus on the latter and build maybe 50-60/month. Also too many A6M3b and Nick. Why production of both the G3M2 and G3M3?

PaxMondo -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/26/2017 2:06:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Chickenboy I typed up a long version of what I didn't like with your ...., but the system ate it. Hate that ....

Aurorus -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/26/2017 2:10:30 PM)
Your in-game production screen is showing nearly 60 a/c per day, but your tracker chart is showing 27 ac/day. I have no idea what changes you have made to the economy in this mod, but are you expending HI for aircraft R&D?

PaxMondo -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/26/2017 2:14:48 PM)
He mentions he has a bunch of factories turned off ... but that is still HI and supply spent. However, having taken India, he can afford this somewhat.

Lowpe -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/26/2017 3:10:33 PM)
Congratulations on your stunning early wins...but your economy is definitely not humming along.[:(] At least not for a Sep 1945 length game. You need to grow your stockpiles and describe your plane r&d status. You spent a lot of fuel on that day in your ships...why so much? Remember, the US is your dire threat and true enemy...don't fall victim to victory disease.[;)]

adarbrauner -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/27/2017 11:16:01 AM)
Why not a drive to Karachi through Dehli, as fast as possible?

ny59giants -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/27/2017 11:40:53 AM)
IJN ship building: Not seen in screenshot is about a dozen subs halted to allow others to be built. Is there anything here you would change and why?? [image]local://upfiles/15133/48F1BE4CEFCC429E94230888B8ACE7FE.jpg[/image]

ny59giants -> RE: "It's the economy, stupid" BTSL NY59G (J) vs Gen Patton (A) (6/27/2017 11:49:08 AM)
Engines: I love this pop up in Tracker. [;)] Right now efforts are going into steady expansion of Naka Ha-45 for my late war fighters. 2 of 6 factories are expanding so the other four can keep up R&D numbers. Please let me know if you need other info here. [image]local://upfiles/15133/A9585BE6218F48E5ACEAC9335CD08AD7.jpg[/image]

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