RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (Full Version)

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HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/14/2017 7:22:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec

What are the benefit of doing HQBuildups with infantry ?


Ah, good question ;-P




The answer points to itself ;-)



timmyab -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/14/2017 8:24:08 PM)

The Soviet 'run in the South and center and pile everything North' strategy has no real answer without a game design tweek.

A long time ago I suggested this as a possible solution.
In non baltic rail hexes, if Axis railheads are more than a certain distance from the nearest Soviet air base they can convert rail faster. e.g two MPs to convert instead of three with an increased limit on the max number of hexes per turn. This would virtually force the Soviet player to defend further forward and the 'Leningrad wall' defense would be much less effective.

This is mainly a means to an end solution but does have some semblance of military logic as well.



Crackaces -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/14/2017 9:06:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec

What are the benefit of doing HQBuildups with infantry ?


Ah, good question ;-P




The answer points to itself ;-)


If I could espouse my ignorance I could think of one reason .. to get a powerhouse Corps (like AGN I Corps) into the fray quickly, and one needs to have fresh supplies to do combat ...The problem is a lack of AP's and they are so much better spent on PzXXX .. But I could see an exception occurring if the circumstances were set up



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/14/2017 10:57:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec

What are the benefit of doing HQBuildups with infantry ?


Ah, good question ;-P




The answer points to itself ;-)


If I could espouse my ignorance I could think of one reason .. to get a powerhouse Corps (like AGN I Corps) into the fray quickly, and one needs to have fresh supplies to do combat ...The problem is a lack of AP's and they are so much better spent on PzXXX .. But I could see an exception occurring if the circumstances were set up



You are correct Sir. MP's and combat supply is correct. But remember I'm playing Soviets here (I don't have PZ XXX) and Soviets get a movement point bonus/reduction in the blizzard.



Crackaces -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/14/2017 11:53:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec

What are the benefit of doing HQBuildups with infantry ?


Ah, good question ;-P




The answer points to itself ;-)


If I could espouse my ignorance I could think of one reason .. to get a powerhouse Corps (like AGN I Corps) into the fray quickly, and one needs to have fresh supplies to do combat ...The problem is a lack of AP's and they are so much better spent on PzXXX .. But I could see an exception occurring if the circumstances were set up



You are correct Sir. MP's and combat supply is correct. But remember I'm playing Soviets here (I don't have PZ XXX) and Soviets get a movement point bonus/reduction in the blizzard.


Please forgive me .. as you know .. I am in a different frame of mind ..in a few days I will be responsible for the destruction of Leningrad and all Russkies that get in the way [8D]



Dinglir -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/17/2017 9:45:53 AM)

Turn ten.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/18/2017 2:57:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir

Turn ten.


For turn ten Dinglir I did not turn my planes off. They were still flying all missions except interdiction. There is another reason they did not fly to that hex ;-)



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/18/2017 2:19:28 PM)

Been busy as heck at work and little time for anything else. Going to update turn 9 and 10 real quick to get on the same page as Dinglir's turn. Which is on turn 10 at the moment.

Here is the OOB for turn ending 9.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/8D99EC5B630040139DE98F2CDA18C3A1.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/18/2017 2:21:46 PM)

Here are the Air loses for the turn. It is still hot and heavy and very acceptable to me. Again the goal is to take control of the Air before the end of 1942 or at lease 2/3's of the Fronts.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/5C26B64E58344B03A40F5139F5E46C91.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/18/2017 2:27:57 PM)

Localized attacks around Pskov to stabilize the front. I have noticed, to my surprise, that almost all of the PZ's and Moto have left the vicinity. I now initiate Operation, "Exit Stage Left"(my left by the way) by beginning to shift my forces towards Moscow. Keeping note of the PZ movements. I deploy a defense in depth north east of Pskov and hope for the best since I'm taking a chance that the PZ's aren't coming back. I gamble......

[image]local://upfiles/53556/699086C692644481BA8B46E9770C3ADD.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/18/2017 2:34:18 PM)

Notice the RED line & Yellow line. The RED line is a no retreat line for me. The Germans will have to pay outright to move this line back. Also I will reinforce this line tooth and nail to not be breached based on the strength of the Germans. The Yellow line is a line that will fall back giving ground slowly based on the German presence in the area.

I Shifted forces from NE of Pskov to now hold the line from Lake Ilmen to the town of Vyshny Volochek with emphesis of the units to DIG in FAST. Should have a turn and if I'm lucky two turns before the Germans hit the line for forts.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/08A2D84C058549ECBEBA7E7BCF6A6E79.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/18/2017 2:41:20 PM)

ALERT PZ's in area.

Yellow and Red lines mentioned above and plotted here for my plans. But like all plans they go bad the second they start.

From the previous turn 8 to now the Russian forces scatter like cockroaches when the light is turned on. I set up a weak defense in depth with a few key stopping points behind the front line. My hope is for the PZ's not to be able to do deep penetrations praying on their fuel to be low because of the relocation. As long as Debbie doesn't do Dallas I should be fine ;-)

I just need a turn or two to know for sure where the PZ's are going. Then I can deploy in force. I still fear a thrust north to cut off Leningrad and thus deployed my troops that way. Again I would rather lose Moscow than Leningrad and play it as such.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/2C2EB24512A4429D866D69A65DAC7669.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/18/2017 3:22:26 PM)

Turn 10 pictures

Turn 10 front in Pskov area stablized with just local attacks. I did an attack on the GD regiment to open up the pocket of a unit with 5 wins (lime center). But HOLY Freaking COW the loses I take for attacking regiments is F'ing RETARDED. I don't mean just the GD regiment. I mean any German Regiment or Brigade the loses are insane. Like I said before I'm breaking my German units down into Regiments next time I play the Germans to entice a Russian attack. HOLY COW. Am I missing something here or is it just me the losses seem out of place compared to the loses I would get if I attacked a normal Division. I have lots of screenshots of both and the regiment/brigade wins almost all the time in inflicting greater loses.

Maybe it was just the number of bombers but I have pictures with no bombers and without a negative command structure and the loses are still in the 1,000's. And yes the extra loses still for the Aug timeframe. But I have pictures of attacks after the August time frame and they are still just as crazy. There has to be something going on in the code when attacking German Regiments/Brigades....


[image]local://upfiles/53556/BBB3847D90684F5685BC664780351022.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/18/2017 3:38:21 PM)

Turn 10

Still digging in holding in the Kalinin area with PZ's finally showing up. The poor surrounded unit will probably be forced to work on the railroad after surrendering. Hope they get a pension ;-p



[image]local://upfiles/53556/2AFF4544FC734D819FDD387E0F4ECC25.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/18/2017 3:41:53 PM)

Still relocating and putting into position units from Pskov. Next turn should be interesting.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/064135422E114212B00C76B4B7AF0294.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/18/2017 3:46:45 PM)

Here is the southern part of the Moscow defense. Still all is very lightly held with the RED line being the hold at all cost line.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/CB78D496A94B479192D8190D79859620.jpg[/image]



Crackaces -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/18/2017 4:57:18 PM)

I posted this in another forum but would be worth exploring from the standpoint of the troubles the Russkies had those first few months and the losses they took in counterattacks
http://militera.lib.ru/h/fugate/index.html



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/18/2017 5:09:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

I posted this in another forum but would be worth exploring from the standpoint of the troubles the Russkies had those first few months and the losses they took in counterattacks
http://militera.lib.ru/h/fugate/index.html


Yes, I understand that. I'm talking about the loses to brigades/regiments that inflict more damage than divisions do to the same kind of attack. That is my point ;-)



Crackaces -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/18/2017 5:31:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

I posted this in another forum but would be worth exploring from the standpoint of the troubles the Russkies had those first few months and the losses they took in counterattacks
http://militera.lib.ru/h/fugate/index.html


Yes, I understand that. I'm talking about the loses to brigades/regiments that inflict more damage than divisions do to the same kind of attack. That is my point ;-)


I see the German regimentcommenced a fighting withdrawal



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/18/2017 5:46:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

I posted this in another forum but would be worth exploring from the standpoint of the troubles the Russkies had those first few months and the losses they took in counterattacks
http://militera.lib.ru/h/fugate/index.html


Yes, I understand that. I'm talking about the loses to brigades/regiments that inflict more damage than divisions do to the same kind of attack. That is my point ;-)


I see the German regimentcommenced a fighting withdrawal


Yup, it did. Still the damage done by regiments/brigades imho is more than when I attack a division if it replaced that regiment in that hex, even with a fighting withdraw or other measures in the hex. I'm saying that regiments/brigades do greater damage to the attacker than a division in like situation. Or at least it seems that way to me. I could be totally wrong but that is what I have observed.



Dinglir -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/23/2017 4:30:10 PM)

Turn eleven.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/23/2017 5:35:38 PM)

OOB for Turn 11

[image]local://upfiles/53556/780AAFF7CE7B4F9E9D4F4FC2283BCDA6.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/23/2017 5:38:13 PM)

Fighter aircraft Experience for the Soviet Union. I'm happy with the results so far even though the Air loses have been astronomical ;-P

[image]local://upfiles/53556/999BFA81B31C4A3BA842140CF22E893C.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/23/2017 5:40:42 PM)

Aircraft Loses. Loses are still acceptable to me.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/0876DF3FDDBE49F3AD432CECD4A2BC07.jpg[/image]



EwaldvonKleist -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/23/2017 5:54:44 PM)

What exactly is so secret about fatigue/morale etc. that you always blacken them out HLYA?



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/23/2017 6:00:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

What exactly is so secret about fatigue/morale etc. that you always blacken them out HLYA?


hmmmm, they are whitened out ;-P hahahahahahahaha

Nothing secret. I just did it.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/23/2017 6:15:02 PM)

Well, Dinglir decided to do a deep raid on Voronezh. Sheesh, couldn't leave well enough alone but oh well. The Panzer Division is 41 hexes off rail range for supply. I consider any operation past 30 off rail range doomed to fail and this one is "way" out there.

I do a count of all the Panzer and Moto units on the map and found them all. There are no others he can bring in so I react the following. I turn around 1 Army and half and rail in another army of "VERY" Experienced and seasoned troops. These 2 armies and half won't be available for the defense of Moscow like I normally have but I like this scenerio that Dinglir has created. IMHO PZ's and Moto far from railhead = useless ;-) I also bring in "scrub" units from the east for cannon fodder. I know from experience that the Germans aren't going to be able to move that "very" experienced division in Voronezh with experience of over 50 and morale of 50 (RED center) well rested. So now the Germans are going to be on a rescue mission if they aren't careful ;-) German resources are going to have to be brought in to support this which is fine imho.

I have the units but don't like being thin on my defense at Moscow. Not having these units there is making me feel very uneasy. So in that sense this could work out very well for Dinglir & I congratulate him for having the "ballz" to try such an operation. I just need to get my IL2's out and be on my way defending Moscow in the next two turns.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/0FE61D83677F40B79697E144CA5094C8.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/23/2017 6:20:30 PM)

Defense of Northern Moscow without the Armies at Voronezh that will be missed.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/F2736326A0844EDE8584E2853990B88B.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/23/2017 6:21:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
I just need to get my IL2's out and be on my way defending Moscow in the next two turns.


Is it correct to say the factories cannot be evacuated this turn? You can evacuate a factory in a ZOC, but rail does not work in a ZOC - and it looks like every rail exit is ZOCed? Or is this one of those cases where it does not quite work as the manual describes e.g. there is a working rail hex next to Voronezh to its north east even if there is no line directly between the two?



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (9/23/2017 6:21:38 PM)

Defense of Southern Moscow without the Voronezh armies :(

[image]local://upfiles/53556/1EBC79354E2A4F57BA9DF8283A5A53B5.jpg[/image]



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