RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (Full Version)

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HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (10/17/2017 7:25:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
the bombing of the Il-2 factory which is nice but imo the Reds just need to evacuate it turn 3 and be done with it.


Probably the right conclusion. But remember you will produce as many as hundreds less of the aircraft. In effect the same result as the bombing until evacuation but without the bombing. See post 124 of the Axis AAR of EightMP.



Ya, you will normally have hundreds if not thousands sitting in the "POOL" anyway. So no biggie to me.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (10/17/2017 7:29:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
the bombing of the Il-2 factory which is nice but imo the Reds just need to evacuate it turn 3 and be done with it.


Probably the right conclusion. But remember you will produce as many as hundreds less of the aircraft. In effect the same result as the bombing until evacuation but without the bombing. See post 124 of the Axis AAR of EightMP.



Ya, you will normally have hundreds if not thousands sitting in the "POOL" anyway. So no biggie to me.


Just use more regular bombers :)



Crackaces -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (10/17/2017 7:43:31 PM)

My point being .. if the Soviet player understood this level of optimization and the German player were at my current newbie level .. it would be easy to conclude that the game is borked and does not produce historical results ..thus my comment that game engine changes to produce specified results constrained by history is a fine line to walk with the concept of a playable game ..
The past 3 weeks has been an eye opening experience understanding how a lot of small nuances in this game add up to victory. The key I believe given equally skilled players with a common understanding of game mechanics will result in a close game as defined by Soviets take Berlin sometime after May 1945 ...(or however else ou want to define a close game)



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (10/17/2017 8:00:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

My point being .. if the Soviet player understood this level of optimization and the German player were at my current newbie level .. it would be easy to conclude that the game is borked and does not produce historical results ..thus my comment that game engine changes to produce specified results constrained by history is a fine line to walk with the concept of a playable game ..
The past 3 weeks has been an eye opening experience understanding how a lot of small nuances in this game add up to victory. The key I believe given equally skilled players with a common understanding of game mechanics will result in a close game as defined by Soviets take Berlin sometime after May 1945 ...(or however else ou want to define a close game)



Ya, I understood where you were coming from.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (10/17/2017 8:09:08 PM)

Ya, I think I'm really at the point I will be taking an extended vacation from the game soon.



Crackaces -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (10/17/2017 8:28:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Ya, I think I'm really at the point I will be taking an extended vacation from the game soon.


well you are an important contributor to this forum (INHO) .. but don't become burned out ...



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (10/17/2017 8:46:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

Ya, I think I'm really at the point I will be taking an extended vacation from the game soon.


well you are an important contributor to this forum (INHO) .. but don't become burned out ...


Thank you, we all have been contributing and learning a great deal on the game that hasn't been brought out until recently. I think this has been a very interesting time for WiTE and really looking forward to WiTE 2.0 :)



Dinglir -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (10/19/2017 7:01:17 AM)

Turn 13



Dinglir -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (10/29/2017 7:43:04 PM)

Turn 14.



Dinglir -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (11/4/2017 9:43:15 PM)

Turn fifteen.



tyronec -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (11/5/2017 9:21:11 AM)

Interesting game and excellent write up.
What are your expectations for how things will go long term ?
With the apparently 'random' reactions by the soviet air force, were the units bombed all the same front or did you just hit one that was in a front with air support ?

Both of you seem to be of the opinion that there is not much Axis can do to stop almost total STAVKA air dominance by '42, much my experience as well. Would be interesting to hear any other views on this.



Dinglir -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (11/5/2017 10:17:55 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec
Interesting game and excellent write up.


Thanks.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec
What are your expectations for how things will go long term ?


As I have never played the Axis even in to the winter of 1941/1942, I expect that I will make a series of strategic mistakes that will cost me the victory. I aim to reduce such mistakes as much as possible, and to learn a lot from the experience.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec
With the apparently 'random' reactions by the soviet air force, were the units bombed all the same front or did you just hit one that was in a front with air support ?


I guess HardLuck has been smart about his setup ensuring that only the units in the main line of resistance is under Front Command and thus able to receive Air Support.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec
Both of you seem to be of the opinion that there is not much Axis can do to stop almost total STAVKA air dominance by '42, much my experience as well. Would be interesting to hear any other views on this.


I am thinking of doing an air war post in the War Room later today describing my experiences so far. Until then I will refrain from answering your question :-)



tyronec -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (11/5/2017 12:57:08 PM)

There was a little discussion about the air war here:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2788580&mpage=25&key=

I think the SU2 factory is upgraded to IL2M, can anyone confirm ?
The big one I missed in one game was the MIGs in Moscow being converted to ILs as well, some of those old factory guides are out of date.



Dinglir -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (11/5/2017 2:26:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec
I think the SU2 factory is upgraded to IL2M, can anyone confirm ?


As far as I can tell that's only the aircraft and not the factory.

The factory should still be going out of production in march 1942 as far as I know.

Hence my question: Am I missing something here?



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (11/5/2017 3:40:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec


Both of you seem to be of the opinion that there is not much Axis can do to stop almost total STAVKA air dominance by '42, much my experience as well. Would be interesting to hear any other views on this.


The Germans can do things to mitigate, if not shut it down, the effects of what the Soviets do in the Air even against an aggressive Soviet player in the Air in the current patch You just need to know what to do to control the situation. And "no" I'm not playing another game to show how to do the controlling as a German. The tools are there you just need to know the settings and what to do to make it happen.




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (11/5/2017 4:14:48 PM)

The causalities taken and given to regiments/Brigades is silly. Added to the fact the same is true for PZ divisions. They both seem to be on the same chart when being attacked by the Soviets, super human ;-P. You will see in a future post when we get to turn 25 the 1st turn of blizzard German regiments taking 0 (ZERO) damage while inflicting 300-500+ casualties to Soviet Divisions with over 45 experience and 45 morale. Some of these regiments had moved in their turn, were in the open, and had been retreated from a previous combat & been bombed. I'm just shaking my head every time I see this. (A good note is that I'm not seeing this in 2.0 so far in my battles :-) )




M60A3TTS -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (11/5/2017 7:02:23 PM)

So are you actually still playing this game? I thought you decided to go on hiatus.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (11/5/2017 7:23:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

So are you actually still playing this game? I thought you decided to go on hiatus.


I kept this one game only & will dig deeper into WITE 2.0 when I'm fully back. I love the game a great deal but was consuming way too much time of mine. 12-14 hours a day behind the computer was driving me up the wall. I had to cut back or go insane.



Dinglir -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (11/12/2017 9:49:59 AM)

Turn sixteen.



Dinglir -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (11/26/2017 9:46:01 AM)

Turn seventeen.



Dinglir -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (12/7/2017 6:59:28 PM)

Turn eighteen to twentythree.



SparkleyTits -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (12/7/2017 9:12:56 PM)

Great, informative read as always Dinglir I am rooting for ya!



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (12/8/2017 2:20:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

Great, informative read as always Dinglir I am rooting for ya!


OH! I see how it is ;-P. Trying to keep the Soviets down!!!!! Sheesh



SparkleyTits -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (12/8/2017 2:34:03 AM)

Well Communism is best appreciated when soundly under a boot [:)]

It seems Telemecus's influence is rubbing off on me...... Please help



Dinglir -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (12/9/2017 7:52:10 PM)

Turn twentyfour.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (12/10/2017 3:30:38 AM)






Stalins Christmas present.





[image]local://upfiles/53556/F74C119F1A744F309797B4D8BEB222D1.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (12/10/2017 3:37:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain






Stalins Christmas present.





[image]local://upfiles/53556/F74C119F1A744F309797B4D8BEB222D1.jpg[/image]



Really brings up the questions that should the Soviets really be able to get this many Guard Infantry rifle divisions this early?



Dinglir -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (12/10/2017 4:00:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
Really brings up the questions that should the Soviets really be able to get this many Guard Infantry rifle divisions this early?


Historically, I read somewhere that the Soviets had ten Guards divisions at the end of 1941 and about 32 by 1943.

There is a top limit to how many Guards you can have at specific times. That is why you have been creating a bunch of them during the first week of January. Now, you'll be making no more until the first week of February, when you'll be making another bunch of them.

Of course, you have to take into consideration that the +1 Soviet attack modifier of our game makes it much easier for the Soviets to accumulate wins. I decided back in the fall of 1941 to ignore Soviet "Guards farming" as I saw no real way of preventing it anyways.

Personally, I think the limits are to high. Guards should be "special" units. Having 50 of them is not really very "special" at all. So I would prefer setting the limits to a lesser amount (and even making their morale setting a little higher if you are concerned about game balance).



Dinglir -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (12/11/2017 7:00:51 PM)

Turn twentyfive.



Sammy5IsAlive -> RE: Zum Angriff: Dinglir (Axis) v HardLuck - HardLuck, U2 are welcome (12/11/2017 10:31:24 PM)

I'm not sure about your theory of airstrikes making Soviet units stronger. I know you've done tests running air strikes then comparing CV as displayed on the counters but have you run the same tests comparing the adjusted CVs you see in the battle screen*? My hunch would be that potential CV reductions due to disrupted elements may not show up on the 'counter CVs'. Speaking anecdotally from a very small sample size, my own experience is that Soviet units that have been subject to Ground Attack missions 'feel like' they retreat easier and suffer more casualties when they do so.

* I appreciate that because of all the other variables/die rolls involved in getting to an adjusted value you would have to run a very large number of trials in order to get an idea of the effect of airstrikes in isolation of all the other variance.



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