RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (Full Version)

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MemoryLeak -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/12/2017 11:56:55 PM)

I sent it five minutes ago, did it make it?

First time my cat was walking on the keyboard so I had some addressing issues.



MemoryLeak -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/13/2017 4:08:14 AM)

Joel, did you get the saves?



Joel Billings -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/13/2017 4:39:22 AM)

I got them. I ran your turn 3 and Messina was bombed. I didn't see any missions to Sardinia. I didn't see a problem. Are you seeing something else with your turn 3 air phase results?



MemoryLeak -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/13/2017 2:48:46 PM)

Hi Joel,

I have no doubt that it is me, otherwise there are so many people playing this game that other players
would be reporting this problem too.

But what I see is that after my turn I go to the AD Summary display and under Strategic Bombing there are
two BOMB CITY missions listed. I click on one of those and a course is drawn to a city in Sardinia.
I click on the other mission and a line is drawn to a another city in Sardinia. So instead of keeping
the missions I designed, it has substituted different missions, which I changed back. So maybe you are seeing
the fact that I changed the missions back to what I wanted.



MemoryLeak -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/13/2017 3:24:54 PM)

there is just too much mystery about this game for me. I'm trying again this morning and I've had
two HQ's one at Catania and one at Gela, both on ships for the past two turns and each time I click
on the ON SHIPS button to unload them it says "Not Enough Remaining Port Capacity". I don't get it.
I haven't done any other actions at either Port. There are about 500 different numbers when I click on the
hex but I swear I can't figure out the relationship to unloading a damn unit and all of the numbers
to choose from.





Joel Billings -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/13/2017 5:20:16 PM)

All I did was load in your turn 3 Allied save, and ended the air planning. Before I did this, I turned on the show air directives and this is what I saw. It all looks good...

[image]local://upfiles/1268/71936864F16441579E3B5601431577F2.jpg[/image]



Joel Billings -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/13/2017 5:25:43 PM)

When the report came up, I clicked on the + next to the 1 to expand the detail on the one mission flown to Messian. It shows the results (see screenshot). If I click on he RAILYARD text, I am taken to Messian and the detail of the raid. This all looks as I would expect. You will have to send me a save just before you execute the air missions for me to figure out what missions you have set. I suspect you are changing the missions in a way you're not intending.

[image]local://upfiles/1268/9EFE5ABA60C04D728C7CD56AC657C5C1.jpg[/image]



Joel Billings -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/13/2017 5:47:15 PM)

As for the naval transport issue, look at the screenshot below. I took it in your turn 3 ground movement phase after clicking on the naval transport mode button. Notice that the port of Gela has a 14 in the middle of the circle. This means it has 14000 capacity for loading/unloading. Notice your HQ has a transport cost of 16520 and is too big to unload. This is a common problem for HQs and big armored units.

The solution given you only have small ports, is to unload over the beaches at the temporary ports. Unfortunately you moved your amphib HQs away from the beaches on turn 2, so on turn 3 you lost your temporary port status in the hexes where you had invaded (see last paragraph on page 61 of the manual). If you load your turn 2 save, you'll see that these hexes have port capacity. While unloading in these hexes is slow (uses more MPs), it does not use up the port capacity there as unloading units is free of charge.

[image]local://upfiles/1268/D1FA9A31E58F44EAA43F39B96B195BBB.jpg[/image]



MemoryLeak -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/13/2017 6:58:02 PM)

okay, I understand the ports now, at least a little more. I thought the amphibious units were just boats and
I returned them to N Africa for safety. So they are more than just transportation.


I am going to start a new Husky game this afternoon. Right now I am reading more of the manual and
I'm in the process of printing it. It's too awkward to access it online all the time.

Getting units to repair RR is my next big undertaking.

And trying to figure out assigning units. When I click on
the big US armored unit, I notice that I can assign more types of units to it, AA and ART etc. I'm trying to figure
out where these units magically appear from and what the down side is to doing this. Because otherwise I would
logically conclude that I should select all the units available and add all of them to this Armored group.

If you look at my saved game you will see there are several Construction units sitting around by themselves.
I can't move them, I can't get them to do anything visibly useful. Only button I can click on is
Returning them to the HQ unit. Why or why not is this a good idea?






Joel Billings -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/13/2017 7:16:33 PM)

They will auto return, so don't worry about them unless they are causing a stacking issue in which case that's why there is a manual return option.

As for attachments, they come from HQs up their chain of command (with certain limits for range, etc.). Allies have lots of support units, so it is good to attach the max (3 per division). This was historically done with lots of Tand Destroyer and tank battalions attached to infantry divisions. They are more useful than AA usually given increasing Allied air superiority. You can't attach artillery directly to combat units.



MemoryLeak -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/13/2017 7:26:51 PM)

thanks Joel, I appreciate your help. I

I don't understand why those Construction units just materialize and show up on the map if they have no purpose.
I can just ignore them but it seems strange to me.



Joel Billings -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/13/2017 8:12:55 PM)

They are fixing things, like ports, airfields, railyards, etc. These get damaged when you capture them. All automatic, unless you want to set priority repairs, but don't worry about that for now.



HMSWarspite -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/13/2017 8:29:21 PM)


quote:


By the way, you wrote "Tiffies in 2TAF on 8 Rckts". What the heck is that?



MemoryLeak, sorry I forgot a newcomer would not speak the language. Firstly I wasn't talking about Husky scenario, so you don't need to worry in the short term. Secondly, Tiffy is the nickname for the Typhoon, a very good British Fighter bomber. It is an ok fighter but much better as a ground attack aircraft. It is very useful for interdiction, where the best load out is one with 8 unguided rockets. It is also useful for ground support (in which case use a bombs, or auto load out). It teams very well with Spitfires which are better at air to air and not as good at ground attack (less weapons). By mid 1944 the Typhoons are mostly in 2 Tactical Air Force (2TAF), based in southern England. You have 1st TAF in Husky (it is just 'Tactical Air Force')

Some people say that the Breakout scenario is a good one after Husky, but I like to encourage people to play with the first turn of D Day, to experiment with Naval Interdiction, ground attack and bombing rail yards, as well as the first turn landing. It is personal choice, but you get much more overwhelming force in June 44 and can learn to use the air forces much more vigorously than in the Med.



HMSWarspite -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/13/2017 8:37:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MemoryLeak

thanks Joel, I appreciate your help. I

I don't understand why those Construction units just materialize and show up on the map if they have no purpose.
I can just ignore them but it seems strange to me.


Have you found out how to see what railroads are damaged, enemy, or repairing? There is a button (looks like rails), but also hover the mouse over specific hexes. It will say something like Allied Rail damage 100 (the hex is yours but the rail is wrecked), Allied Rail damage 1 (the rail has been repaired this turn and will be functional next turn), or it will give a rail usage (which is the number of tons of supply that used it this supply movement segment). You can also tell the latter by the colour. As an exeriment, find a big unit and put it on a train. then move it a couple of hexes - if the unit is big enough the rail usage will jump and the track will go red (rail is now overloaded and units/supply pay extra to use that hex).

Once you get this, the construction units will make more sense (and you can use your 'manual' repair units more intelligently).

One other option (generally) for you would be play a head to head (email) game with Fog of War off, and a player who is willing to play Husky in a teaching style (chat about your moves and explain their own...). You might find someone willing (I would offer but RL is being annoying at present so I wouldn't be able to do it I am afraid)



MemoryLeak -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/13/2017 9:01:07 PM)

HMSWarspite

Thanks for the clarification on your abbreviations. I thought I knew what 2TAF and the rockets reference probably was
but the abvr for Typhoon was new.

And I've been around war games since I was in college back in the 60's, Avalon-Hill board games of course.
I can't remember how many stacks of units I knocked over.

I have owned computers from the beginning . The Atari 800XL and The Commodore 64, both of which I still
have in their original boxes.

For computer war games I believe my first was put out by Avalon-Hill. Very basic. Bismarck I think it was.
That company had an inside track but really missed their chance to dominate computerized war games. I bought Harpoon
when it first came out. I had to get it at a hobby store. Only place around for that kind of software. Then the
old Microprose company put out a lot of good ones.

Back to business, I started studying the manual again early this morning and I'm still at it. I think I have a grasp
of Railroad repair, but well see. Right now the automated part of it is broken.

I'd like to try a game with someone but I'm heading up to Oregon for a few days. After that I'd be available.

My biggest problem is with all of the data on unit screens and popups. Seems like there is very little consistency
with their makeup and order. Sometimes the first number is the maximum and sometimes they use the second number as
the maximum. I would have done things differently. 3499/5538

And the color coding for everything throughout the game goes all over the place. Sometimes red is designates enemy
territory, sometimes dark gray, they have made it impossible to memorize the various color schemes.

Anyway, thanks for the advice. If you are ever available for an instructional game, please let me know.





HMSWarspite -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/14/2017 4:46:14 PM)

For railroad repair, I plan on (and use) the dedicated railroad repair engineers (the 'corps' sized ones not the small ones that are the auto repair units attached to HQs. Pick the rail line you want to repair - one that heads from a source (a port usually) in the direction you want to go. Move the repair 'corps' to the port and repair the rails (click on the "RRC x" text (x will be 1 usually but is the cost of repairing the lines in that hex). Move unit to the next hex on the line, and repeat until the MPs run out, or you run out of friendly hexes with damaged rail. You will NOT be able to move the rail repair unit adjacent to an enemy unless there is a friendly unit present first. The only other thing you need to think about is priority repair of the railyards open the hex detail of anywhere with a name and a rail, and click on railyard damage to give it priority repairs (costs AP)

Even when auto repair is working I view anything repaired that way as a bonus (don't plan/reply on it)

Hope this helps...



HMSWarspite -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/14/2017 4:52:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MemoryLeak

HMSWarspite

Thanks for the clarification on your abbreviations. I thought I knew what 2TAF and the rockets reference probably was
but the abvr for Typhoon was new.

And I've been around war games since I was in college back in the 60's, Avalon-Hill board games of course.
I can't remember how many stacks of units I knocked over.

Sorry - one extreme to the other!
quote:


I have owned computers from the beginning . The Atari 800XL and The Commodore 64, both of which I still
have in their original boxes.

For computer war games I believe my first was put out by Avalon-Hill. Very basic. Bismarck I think it was.
That company had an inside track but really missed their chance to dominate computerized war games. I bought Harpoon
when it first came out. I had to get it at a hobby store. Only place around for that kind of software. Then the
old Microprose company put out a lot of good ones.

Back to business, I started studying the manual again early this morning and I'm still at it. I think I have a grasp
of Railroad repair, but well see. Right now the automated part of it is broken.

I'd like to try a game with someone but I'm heading up to Oregon for a few days. After that I'd be available.

My biggest problem is with all of the data on unit screens and popups. Seems like there is very little consistency
with their makeup and order. Sometimes the first number is the maximum and sometimes they use the second number as
the maximum. I would have done things differently. 3499/5538

And the color coding for everything throughout the game goes all over the place. Sometimes red is designates enemy
territory, sometimes dark gray, they have made it impossible to memorize the various color schemes.

Anyway, thanks for the advice. If you are ever available for an instructional game, please let me know.





I havent noticed red for territory ever, but the shading sometimes does disappear.

I learned the game but not worrying about the detail too much. "This is an armoured div, it should win against that infantry regt. Oops. Why didn't it win? - Look at the battle result screen and see something like attacking CV 339 -> 30, and defensive CV: 30 -> 339 (;) ). Now why did that happen? etc. There are probably still screens I don't know/understand and thats why I would be beaten by a min/maxing player, but I can beat the AI on challenging, which is about all I have time for at present...



MemoryLeak -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/14/2017 6:31:42 PM)

HI HMS Warspite,

Thanks for the additional advice on RR repair. I didn't know you could tell the unit to repair a hex and immediately
move it to another hex and tell it to repair it , etc.

I am reading the manual( it takes awhile ) and printing hex popup info pages, but I am starting to forget
where I saw something. For instance, there is a scree display that will automatically put an Air Group into
training status when it meets certain criteria. Can't remember which screen now. I know the CR can do things
similar to that but I think it as a different display.

And my air missions are changing/disappearing. I need to post screen shots of before and after of the AD SUMMARY Display.
I couldn't work the print screen with any success so I asked my friend who is the Child Porn Forensic Computer Specialist
for the D.A.'s office and he recommends snipping tool. I'll give that a shot so I can prove the missions are disappearing.



HMSWarspite -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/14/2017 8:56:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MemoryLeak

HI HMS Warspite,

Thanks for the additional advice on RR repair. I didn't know you could tell the unit to repair a hex and immediately
move it to another hex and tell it to repair it , etc.


Until you run out of MPs [;)]

quote:


I am reading the manual( it takes awhile ) and printing hex popup info pages, but I am starting to forget
where I saw something. For instance, there is a scree display that will automatically put an Air Group into
training status when it meets certain criteria. Can't remember which screen now. I know the CR can do things
similar to that but I think it as a different display.

I dont know about automatically, but you can in bulk. Open the units info window (I forget what it is called, but info tab, then the option that is like a standard windows document icon. It will open on ground units. 3rd tab on that is Air units. This then has a list of every air unit in the game currently. Down the bottom are the filters (you can reduce the list by all sorts of criteria). The one I use at the start of every turn is 'Morale'. Click on that and it opens a dialogue - enter minimum morale (or something): enter '0'. Then it asks the same for max morale - enter a suitable number (many people use 60, I have experimented with 40, but I am with 60 currently. When you hit enter, the list of air units is now those whose morale is between 0-60. Now, you can go to the top and hit 'mission', and it opens a dialogue saying mission type (or something, and giving the key: don't quote me, but it is something like 0-Day Only, 1 - night only, 2 - Day and night, 3, Training. The only one I know is definitely correct is '4-rest'. The reason I know this is each start of the air turn I put all morale 60 or less units on 'rest'. Training is a mixed bag, as operational losses are high. The Allies don't really need to train they are OK doing it on the job. Axis (once skill drops) are very poor at learning on the job - they get killed faster than they learn.

Then (and this is a little more fiddly), I clear filters (text at bottom), and repeat morale filter but 61-100. This obviously shows those units, some of which will be on rest (having been rested some turn before and now recovered morale). You could set them all to DN, or DO etc, but I do through manually and set them to appropriate settings (Bomber Command to NO, 8th AF to DO etc), as I like to guard against mistakes like accidentally sending BC in by day - if all their units are set to NO, that AD wouldn't fly even if you forgot to set it to night.

quote:


And my air missions are changing/disappearing. I need to post screen shots of before and after of the AD SUMMARY Display.
I couldn't work the print screen with any success so I asked my friend who is the Child Porn Forensic Computer Specialist
for the D.A.'s office and he recommends snipping tool. I'll give that a shot so I can prove the missions are disappearing.


Disappearing missions is a strange one - never had that. Even if they dont fly they are still in the list in the post Air turn AD summary (just with no sorties against them...

Keep plugging away, it seems impenetrable but it isn't that bad when you get into it. The first time I took Rome before the end of '43 I whooped!. The AI is quite realistic at pulling back when you flank it, and you can make Italy murder for it (well, hard anyway) - every Rail yard south of the Po red, the front line starving on the vine (once you take Rome, I don't push north off the plain too hard, I try and strangle the army... but maybe thats because I haven't cracked beating them in the mountains that well yet.)

Oh, and once you get 15th AF on to the Foggia air fields, you can have a lot of fun in Southern Germany...



Joel Billings -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/14/2017 9:36:52 PM)

Are you using the Auto AD creation screen to create ADs? Are you checking what you have set right before you go into air execution? Again, if you send me a before and after save (right before you click to end the air planning phase and right after the air execution phase, I can see what's going on).



MemoryLeak -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/14/2017 11:06:57 PM)

HMSWarspite and Joel,

HMS---thanks for the detailed info. I cut and pasted it into a document so I can refer back to it. I am
really getting dedicated to this game. My usual MO isn't working. I try to read and comprehend a game manual first.
That's going to be out of the question with this game. But I am continuing to read everything that I can.
I was too tired this morning but I'm going to fire up the game and do some more experimenting with the various possible commands.

Joel, I have a save and I will send it and the next one after I mess with the AD's and see what I'm doing wrong.

Thanks

.




Joel Billings -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/15/2017 3:02:23 AM)

I ran your turn 2, and your turn 3 air phases starting with your turn 2 and turn 3 saves, and they both flew over 12k sorties. I ran turn 2 air missions, ended the turn and went through to turn 3, and in both turn 2 and turn 3 they flew over 12k sorties and all the ADs were still there. I can't see any problem. If you keep saves like this at each key point, and see a problem, feel free to send them to me and I'll take another look. You can always try to repeat the problem yourself from your saves once you see a problem. It always helps if we know it is a repeatable problem if we follow specific steps. Thanks.



MemoryLeak -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/15/2017 5:51:07 PM)

Hi Joel, here are screen shots of before and after Air strikes results. As you can see , hardly any strikes flew in the
second screen shots. You'll see that for some reason hardly any missions flew.

I swear to god you guys make everything as annoying and difficult as you possibly can. The snipping tool
saves everything in .png and of course you don't accept that common extension. Jesus.



BEFORE

[image]local://upfiles/1938/5E72BABC38CF42A0AD9F09C90A78E5A9.jpg[/image]



Next turn



MemoryLeak -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/15/2017 5:54:13 PM)

THIS IS THE NEXT TURN



[image]local://upfiles/1938/03492D46AB1644198C930EE0E01954E7.jpg[/image]



Joel Billings -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/15/2017 10:24:22 PM)

So what I need is your save just before you ran the air execution phase where you got few sorties (I can't see how few in the screenshot you posted). Can you load that save and execute the air phase again and let us know if you get few sorties each time. That would help as well. You might have bad weather, but I need the save to see what's up. The saves you sent yesterday flew missions just fine for me every way I tried them.



MemoryLeak -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/15/2017 11:17:24 PM)

Okay I will do that but you can see in the Strategic Bombing Section, nothing flew at all.

I will sent the saved games. I am at turn 5 now and things seem to back on track but I haven't, to my knowledge, done anything different.




Joel Billings -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/16/2017 1:15:07 AM)

Ok, what you are looking at above is air superiority missions flown during the German air phase. You do not fly bombing missions during the German air phase, but you can fly air superiority in either your or the German phase depending on how you set up the AD. This allows you to interrupt German activity. So your bombers are flying just fine in all your air phases, and are bombing as they should.



IslandInland -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/16/2017 6:16:27 AM)

MemoryLeak,

If the air portion of the game is causing you problems maybe you should just focus on the ground war.

When I bought the game I ignored the air component by letting the AI take care of it and just played around with the ground forces. I didn't take any notice of the air stuff for weeks or maybe even longer.

I played Husky but I learned more about the ground war by playing the Breakout and Pursuit scenario. Sometimes I would set both sides to human controlled and I played against myself and that way got perspectives from both sides as I could see how my attacks with the Allies were impacting the Axis forces. I also read all of the AARs in this forum and that helped a lot.

I don't know if you have watched any of these but here are some tutorials that focus on the air war and also give good primers for other aspects of the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLaIGSOqWC4&list=PLU4LAdatrAFifYi_aSCK5YwFJF4BFVbKP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJjlI8SrU7I&list=PLnegiuOkjSRAFohrXddURoLFMrN_GuJpY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_zmKblLJaQ







MemoryLeak -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/17/2017 12:06:11 AM)

Hi XXXCorps

I have watched practically all of the videos, printed and read several times the Handbook. And constantly
try to plow through as much of the manual each day that I can without going insane from the unnecessary complicated
nature of it.

I am at the total confusion phase right now. I am on turn 7 of Husky(many play throughs) and still can't get the
option to build a damn depot. Of course, even if I could build a depot I have no idea why I would want to. or
move an airbase or put an HQ unit on a certain hex, or change a commander or ANYTHING.

I feel cheated because I am going to have to play this game on a reduced level of understanding
because no one can possibly comprehend all of the factors that effect every thing you do. And I hate that
because that means there are so many things happening that could have been done to change the outcome of
any given turn, but I just go merrily on my way oblivious to 311 pages in the manual of calculation, and rules, and if's
and percentages, and distances except when there is an eclipse or earthquake less than 55 hexes distance from a truck
on a mountain hex near a stream that is more than 200' across etc...that a Cray Computer couldn't figure out
let alone a human being.

There is a limit that Gary isn't aware of.






loki100 -> RE: Setting Minimum Requirements for AD's (8/17/2017 7:53:10 AM)

really suggest taking a step back.

Yes the game is complex, it has a lot of detail, most of which is actually pretty irrelevant. You can play and have fun with the strategic planning etc if you leave the airwar to the AI and use the on-counter combat values as the main driver in your operational/tactical planning.

Beyond that, print out the one page guides. They are both invaluable and pretty much all you need. I've been playing this since release and still have them next to the computer and still use them.

So to build a depot you need 2 sets of preconditions.

a) An admin point - as the Allies this is probably easy enough as the Germans it can be a struggle to divert one
b) to be either in a port or in a town connected via rail to a national supply source (Berlin or London or a N African port) via (if needed) a port.

As the Allies, you want quite a lot of depots so may as well build as you move up. A lot of small depots can yield a surprising amount of supply to forces in a particular part of the front. Closer the depot, less you use trucks to pull supply. This is good. As the Germans, you can run into absolute truck shortages. As the Allies you have plenty but not always where you need them. More for when you invade France, you need trucks for unit movement and to go and get supply. You can end up short of both combat power and movement if not careful.

HQ location, at one level not too important. But best on a depot if you can. Why? They usually have attached support units - artillery, engineers etc. These demand supply, being on a depot means (as above) you are not draining away more trucks.

In general try to have your Corps HQs no more than 3 hexes behind the front (may conflict with the above) and your army HQs about 6 hexes behind them. The Army Grps can sit well to the rear and you may as well leave SHAEF etc in the UK. Equally never any need to move up your air command HQs.

Airbase, well you can automate this. The AI does a decent job. Manually you are trying to trade off two things. You ideally want your airbases where you have depots (ie a functioning rail net) for all the reasons above. But quite often the region where you have your depots is too far from the front for your fighters and short ranged tactical bombers. So you need to push these up to where they can support your operations (taking the truck hit for their resupply).

In Husky, you can leave all your 2 and 4 engined bombers in N Africa. They then don't demand supplies be pulled across the Med and through your ports. In the wider Italian campaign, your N African 2 engined bombers can hit Southern Italy and Sardinia from N Africa. Your 4 engined bombers can reach N Italy. So once Sicily is yours, bring over the 2 engined bombers and then can reach to around Rome.

If Husky is frustrating you (and it is an odd scenario due to geography and the likely Axis AI response), try the Breakout scenario. Much more about tactical combat with a more defined front line and probably clearer goals. Its also the way to learn about how to apply tactical air power to gain combat advantages.

Changing commanders. I mostly don't. Its expensive in admin pts and both sides are short of these. Best is to move divisions so they report to the best commanders. What is 'best'. Well probably the most important values are 'admin' (this affects a lot of the supply process), and either 'infantry' or 'armour' depending. Some commanders are good at one of these and rubbish at the other so try to give them divisions that match their skill set. For an air unit commander, the two values I pay most attention to are admin and air.



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