RE: 2x3+ 037 OOB (Full Version)

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Beria -> RE: 2x3+ 037 OOB (4/23/2020 2:40:44 AM)

Soviet OOB

[image]local://upfiles/56450/C454BC0CA883426DA3353946641BE879.jpg[/image]



Beria -> RE: 2x3+ 037 OOB (4/23/2020 2:42:21 AM)

Soviet OOB continued

[image]local://upfiles/56450/7F2A8DC263FD49278FD7DEA2565CAA78.jpg[/image]



Beria -> RE: 2x3+ 037 OOB (4/23/2020 2:44:51 AM)

Soviet OOB continued

[image]local://upfiles/56450/C1E3A46AA7C346CF86240D3F6E6B790F.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: 2x3+ 037 OOB (4/23/2020 6:11:54 AM)

Finnish OOB

[image]local://upfiles/53894/77D214E047064D56B08FF97416381469.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: 2x3+ 037 OOB (4/23/2020 6:14:53 AM)

Finnish OOB continued

[image]local://upfiles/53894/ED99CF82C8D948AE808200B7E0EBD854.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: 2x3+ 037 OOB (4/23/2020 6:15:52 AM)

Finnish OOB continued

[image]local://upfiles/53894/9CBA3D88C0A84227AF615D02ADFEFB20.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: 2x3+ 037 OOB (4/23/2020 6:18:00 AM)

Rumanian OOB

[image]local://upfiles/53894/4DCAAEBE13B34A5EA0FE4B9AF6B52765.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: 2x3+ 037 OOB (4/23/2020 6:20:40 AM)

Rumanian OOB continued

[image]local://upfiles/53894/19BF6249A77541E68EF570BB6D4A5276.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: 2x3+ 037 OOB (4/23/2020 6:21:40 AM)

Rumanian OOB continued

[image]local://upfiles/53894/FBA10A060CAF42608FE4D330F3D15B4B.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: 2x3+ 037 OOB (4/23/2020 6:22:59 AM)

Hungarian OOB

[image]local://upfiles/53894/2B62C2544A9D4A60AF24CC007E7188A4.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: 2x3+ 037 OOB (4/23/2020 6:23:55 AM)

Hungarian OOB continued

[image]local://upfiles/53894/F8064E6A78BA422BBD3B0A0096C10D87.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: 2x3+ 037 OOB (4/23/2020 6:25:14 AM)

Hungarian OOB continued

[image]local://upfiles/53894/7EE639E8B371430CBF42BF03F778D245.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: 2x3+ 037 OOB (4/23/2020 6:26:37 AM)

Italian OOB

[image]local://upfiles/53894/574800DEC94D4A9DBAD84F4326103C6B.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: 2x3+ 037 OOB (4/23/2020 6:27:23 AM)

Italian OOB continued

[image]local://upfiles/53894/923CB3BA955B4BF8B84AF9A5D5BC0316.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: 2x3+ 037 OOB (4/23/2020 6:28:12 AM)

Italian OOB continued

[image]local://upfiles/53894/8F0B3D7BC7044E1EB678B11A692A2A89.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: 2x3+ 037 OOB (4/23/2020 6:29:09 AM)

Slovakian OOB

[image]local://upfiles/53894/AFBBC98545B04DE2928E331E05C957F9.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: 2x3+ 037 OOB (4/23/2020 6:30:02 AM)

Slovakian OOB continued

[image]local://upfiles/53894/C01BC92DB7A844BF83318E9B45B9CE86.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: 2x3+ 037 OOB (4/23/2020 6:30:50 AM)

Slovakian OOB continued

[image]local://upfiles/53894/221239466D4440FAB055BDC5E57F6A3B.jpg[/image]



Beria -> RE: 2x3+ 037 OOB (4/23/2020 8:53:41 AM)

Or for those who like it the old fashioned way. OOB end of turn 37.

[image]local://upfiles/56450/8E2E167676F74D7C9F045325F4660512.jpg[/image]



Beria -> RE: 2x3+ 037 OOB (4/23/2020 8:54:53 AM)

Ground losses to end of turn 37

[image]local://upfiles/56450/06ABBA438943442D935BB3AD9DDF18B4.jpg[/image]



Beria -> RE: 2x3+ 037 OOB (4/23/2020 8:56:59 AM)

Unit losses to end of turn 37

[image]local://upfiles/56450/DBB54FA7FDA34E64A763B191D9709E4D.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: 2x3+ 025-037 North (4/23/2020 12:10:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch
With the # of elite Axis units wrecked and # of Soviet Guards units created?


Here are the units lost in the blizzard - for the lesser and then greater Tambov pockets with elite units boxed.

[image]local://upfiles/53894/A7C3AA41E5F7447BA261ACD3418144E4.jpg[/image]

They consisted a regiment of an elite division and a regiment that upgrades to a division. In some ways these are the best units to have lost. The Gross Deutschland will soon triple in size in manpower when it upgrades to a division and see its stats go down just from that. So this unit would have to spend time training up recruits to better stats anyway. There will be a long mud period to do this in. And crucially for both units they will go their bonus levels anyway eventually which are far above critical thresholds.

More painful were to lose the high quality infantry divisions which were not elite. These are usually the ones with low numbers. Typically they will have morale of 81 or more allowing them to travel one enemy clear hex for only two MPs. They can return and retrain up to national morale, but that is well below the 81 threshold and so will need 3MPs to travel through enemy clear hexes (50% more!). So for us they are a real irrecoverable loss.



Beria -> RE: 2x3+ 025-037 North (4/23/2020 12:33:59 PM)

41 guards rifle divisions. Funnily enough almost all of them came at the same time towards the end of blizzard. 14 guards cavalry corps. Also all the rocket support units are guards, but a few artillery, pioneers and a flak support unit are too.

[image]local://upfiles/56450/40AB59AAF6854D46BD4593B763B31D52.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: 2x3+ 025-037 OOB (4/23/2020 2:27:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch
What were the total losses during the blizzard? What would they have been in a smaller offensive, or if no offensive at all?


Here for comparison are the losses at the start of the blizzard (Start of Axis Turn 25). Taking these away from the losses at the end of the blizzard it means about half a million losses for the Axis and 800k for the Soviet side.
[image]local://upfiles/53894/FD03D1A511D44DC3B908473CC49DB1AD.jpg[/image]

Of the Axis losses about 13k surrendered in the lesser Tambov pocket and 60k surrendered in the greater Tambov pocket. Perhaps without the fighting to reopen and close the pockets again perhaps as much agan could have been saved. So without these pockets perhaps Axis losses would have been 150k smaller? Most losses always though are attrition - so even without an offensive the losses would barely have been smaller after that.



Zorch -> RE: 2x3+ 025-037 OOB (4/23/2020 2:35:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch
What were the total losses during the blizzard? What would they have been in a smaller offensive, or if no offensive at all?


Here for comparison are the losses at the start of the blizzard (Start of Axis Turn 25). Taking these away from the losses at the end of the blizzard it means about half a million losses for the Axis and 800k for the Soviet side.
[image]local://upfiles/53894/FD03D1A511D44DC3B908473CC49DB1AD.jpg[/image]

Of the Axis losses about 13k surrendered in the lesser Tambov pocket and 60k surrendered in the greater Tambov pocket. Perhaps without the fighting to reopen and close the pockets again perhaps as much agan could have been saved. So without these pockets perhaps Axis losses would have been 150k smaller? Most losses always though are attrition - so even without an offensive the losses would barely have been smaller after that.

So the blizzard offensive did not have a large personnel effect on the Axis. But in morale, guns, and AFVs?



Telemecus -> RE: 2x3+ 025-037 OOB (4/23/2020 5:07:05 PM)

Let me first consider morale

Here below is a screenshot of non-frozen German infantry at the end of turn 37 - here sorted by the highest morale first. Many of these units have morale in the high 90s still, but they are the ones that have been garrisoned in the winter and as they are out of the action have been reassigned to OKH. They will be killers come summer!

[image]local://upfiles/53894/0006BFDB6B1D48DE96A0553F8211F529.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: 2x3+ 025-037 OOB (4/23/2020 5:14:17 PM)

Here on the other hand is the bottom. This includes some very low ones that are just recovering from having returned after their destruction in the Tambov pockets and still have very low morale turns later.

[image]local://upfiles/53894/0DC8A3DDA766458B980681163628E4A8.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: 2x3+ 025-037 OOB (4/23/2020 5:16:00 PM)

most of the other infantry are +/- 10 of the national morale which is going to be 70 in the summer. With replacements arriving, some rear refits and upcoming victories they should congregate back to around 70 morale pretty soon.



Telemecus -> RE: 2x3+ 025-037 OOB (4/23/2020 5:19:32 PM)

Here though is the bigger problem - experience. All those units destroyed in the Tambov pocket have returned with super low experience levels. Their combat stats are now worse than a Rumanian infantry division. And that same experience bug that the Soviet side has suffered from will also be affecting the Germans. It will be many turns on rear refit before they stop being useless green divisions and start being "German" divisions

Below you can see the same infantry sorted by ascending experience - and this is after many turns of recovery since the Tambov pockets already.

[image]local://upfiles/53894/EB42A83D32144E7CA1D28511C071754A.jpg[/image]



redrum68 -> RE: 2x3+ 025-037 OOB (4/23/2020 5:27:44 PM)

Any thoughts on how these OOBs and loses compare to other games at this point? Or on how the loses during the blizzard compare to other games?



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