Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (Full Version)

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Harrybanana -> Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/15/2017 2:11:34 AM)

In my 1.10 pbem game with Waclaw I have had 2 units adjacent to Baghdad now for about 13 or 15 turns (7 or 8 of mine and 6 or 7 of my opponents) without a surrender. With a surrender chance of 25% per turn, the odds of this not happening 13 times in row (let alone 15) is less than 2.5%. So still mathematically possible, but getting remote. Anyway, I would appreciate it if someone could look at our game (Harrybanana and Waclaw) and let me know if it is a bug or I am just unlucky.



Harrybanana -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/15/2017 7:11:33 PM)

Its been a couple more turns and still no Iraq surrender. Things are getting desperate as I need both those 2 units and the Iraq MPPs. Could someone confirm that this is being looked at.

Thank you.



Harrybanana -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/15/2017 9:32:58 PM)

Another couple turns and still no Iraq surrender.

But now I think my game with Waclaw may be broken as it is now the May 22, 1941 Allied turn and the US and USSR have been stuck at around 40% mobilization each for several turns. And this is with the USSR not accepting the revision of the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact and not invading Finland. Is this possible?

France has still not surrendered as my opponent did not accept Vichy France and Italy did not invade Greece. Could these be factors?



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/15/2017 11:52:22 PM)

I am looking at the scripts, only one found for Iraq to surrender. This is triggered by the DE to Send Assistance to Iraq [either YES or NO will put the surrender event in place]. However, that DE is only in place if the Allies place sanctions on Iraq. Perhaps this sanction DE was not activated by the Allied player ?



Harrybanana -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/16/2017 1:07:58 AM)

I am the Allied Player and invoked the sanctions. But even if I didn't Rule 1.11 says that "If following the Iraqi Revolt there are at least 2 Allied units adjacent to Baghdad, then the Iraqi army has a ... 25% percent chance per turn of surrendering if Germany sent assistance to the Iraqis.." and a 75% chance per turn if they don't. I did not ask my opponent, but I assume he sent the aid.

As I understand it the Iraq Revolt will happen automatically once the Axis penetrate far enough into Egypt. This will trigger two DEs. First German DE 624 which has the effect noted above. However, while Rule 1.11 says that the Allied units have to be "adjacent" to Baghdad DE 624 says they only have to be within 1 hex. Not taking any chances I moved both units adjacent (would be nice to know which is right though). Second UK DE 106. By invoking the sanctions the UK gets Basra and a 10 strength corps there. If they don't then they don't get Basra or the corps, but Iraq still revolts.

I have suspended my game with Waclaw until this is looked at.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/16/2017 5:54:39 AM)

quote:

I am the Allied Player and invoked the sanctions.

Ok thanks. 'Adjacent to' is the same as 'within 1 hex of' [;)]

quote:

As I understand it the Iraq Revolt will happen automatically once the Axis penetrate far enough into Egypt.

It actually only has a 75% chance of happening, regardless if the UK imposes sanctions, and :
Italy politically aligned with Axis and not surrendered, AND
Iraq politically aligned with Allies but not fully mobilized, AND
Germany politically aligned with Axis and not surrendered.
AND
The Axis have 1 unit within 2 hexes of El Alamein, OR
The Axis have 1 unit within 5 hexes of Alexandria, OR
The Axis have 1 unit within 5 hexes of Amman.

If the above conditions are met [DE 106], you can then choose to impose or not impose sanctions on Iraq, in both cases there is a 75% chance of the Iraqi revolt [mobilization 3 script]. If sanctions are imposed, then the Axis may or may not send assistance [DE 624], in either case Iraq will surrender but with either 25% [DE 624 = YES] or 75% [DE 624 = NO] chance.

If sanctions are not imposed, then DE 624 is not available, then Iraq will not surrender due to the two unit rule. But you say that you did impose sanctions, so that's not an issue.
Grasping at straws, what two units are next to Baghdad? I think maybe garrisons don't count?



KorutZelva -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/16/2017 12:14:08 PM)

We'd have to check the radius of the trigger because in my current game with Taxman it triggered with my tank getting 3 hex from el alamein and not a hex closer.



waclaw -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/16/2017 12:19:38 PM)



For [DE 624] my answer was YES, so we are in 25% rule. I'm wondering if "25% percent chance per turn of surrendering" is happening every Axis and Allies turn or only Allies?

Harrybanana has two UK corps near Baghdad. Defenders are Iraqi garrison unit.

After all, maybe Gods of RNG don't like our game. I, for example, had only one diplomatic success and all my tokens are invested at least from 1-1,5 year (game time).


quote:

it is now the May 22, 1941 Allied turn and the US and USSR have been stuck at around 40% mobilization each for several turns.


That is the plan. I'm avoiding all aggressive actions that could lead to increase US/USSR mobilization. So there was no US coastal raiding, no DoW on Greece/Yugoslavia, etc.



Taxman66 -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/16/2017 12:20:47 PM)

You did attack a hex that was 2 away, but never physically moved into it.
I wonder if the attack is what caused the trigger.



Harrybanana -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/16/2017 12:26:50 PM)

Doh, of course adjacent and being within one hex are the same thing. For some reason I was thinking one intervening hex, mot sure why.

Nice to know that Iraq only has a 75% chance to join the Axis regardless of whether or not the UK imposes sanctions. DE 106 says that Iraq will join the Axis 100% of the time regardless of whether or not the UK imposes sanctions. So there is obviously a difference between what the scripts say and the manual says.

You are correct that I had it backward; DE106 fires first then event DE624. So I thought it was a no brainer for the UK to impose sanctions so that they get Basra and the extra corps there. But in fact it may be more beneficial to not impose sanctions as that way the Germans don't get to send aid, so there will be a 75% chance of surrender.

But the real issue is is the surrender from having 2 units adjacent to Baghdad broken? This was never an issue in any of my other games as either DE 106 was never triggered (ie there was no Iraqi Revolt) or else I just captured Baghdad in the usual way because I was unaware that having 2 adjacent units could cause Iraq to surrender. Has anyone ever had Iraq surrender from having the 2 adjacent units?

I have 2 corps adjacent to Baghdad. But one of them is not at full strength as the manual does not say that a full strength unit is required.




Harrybanana -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/16/2017 1:01:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: waclaw

After all, maybe Gods of RNG don't like our game. I, for example, had only one diplomatic success and all my tokens are invested at least from 1-1,5 year (game time).


Yes, but I then invested my 3 UK chits reducing your chance to diplomatically move Spain to 15% per turn. But you are correct that you should statistically had more movement by now.

quote:

it is now the May 22, 1941 Allied turn and the US and USSR have been stuck at around 40% mobilization each for several turns.


quote:

That is the plan. I'm avoiding all aggressive actions that could lead to increase US/USSR mobilization. So there was no US coastal raiding, no DoW on Greece/Yugoslavia, etc.


Yes, but I thought that the US and USSR were suppose to gain mobilization % (or at least have the chance to do so) every turn regardless of what the Axis does (just like Italy and the Axis minors do). In this case the US has been stuck at 33% for almost a year. Russia was stuck as well until early 41 and has made only marginal gains since to 42% mobilization. The result is that you are gaining a lot more MPPs than me every turn (about 850 to 500). If I am wrong about this (and there is no automatic Mobilization gain for the US and USSR) then this is something the Axis can clearly exploit. For example, in our game you could just stop attacking now (or at least don't do anything to increase US or USSR mobilization) and then out produce, out tech and out diplomacy me for the next 2 or 3 years until 43 or 44 and then launch simultaneous invasions of the UK and USSR with overwhelming force.

I may have to start a separate thread on this issue (if it is an issue).

Could we hear from the Developers please? Is the Iraq surrender broken or am I just extremely unlucky? Why has the US mobilization % not moved in almost a year of game time?



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/16/2017 3:43:36 PM)

quote:

Has anyone ever had Iraq surrender from having the 2 adjacent units?

Yes, about every stinkin' game just as I manage to get the DAK thru Egypt and think I have a chance to save the poor Iraqi's, they fold. The RNG likes to spite me.



BillRunacre -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/16/2017 8:28:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

It actually only has a 75% chance of happening


Hi Steve

This isn't actually the case, it has a 75% chance per turn of firing once the trigger conditions are met, just to ensure that the actual turn Iraq joins the Axis isn't guaranteed, providing a little variability.

Bill



BillRunacre -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/16/2017 8:54:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

Yes, but I thought that the US and USSR were suppose to gain mobilization % (or at least have the chance to do so) every turn regardless of what the Axis does (just like Italy and the Axis minors do). In this case the US has been stuck at 33% for almost a year. Russia was stuck as well until early 41 and has made only marginal gains since to 42% mobilization. The result is that you are gaining a lot more MPPs than me every turn (about 850 to 500). If I am wrong about this (and there is no automatic Mobilization gain for the US and USSR) then this is something the Axis can clearly exploit. For example, in our game you could just stop attacking now (or at least don't do anything to increase US or USSR mobilization) and then out produce, out tech and out diplomacy me for the next 2 or 3 years until 43 or 44 and then launch simultaneous invasions of the UK and USSR with overwhelming force.

I may have to start a separate thread on this issue (if it is an issue).

Could we hear from the Developers please? Is the Iraq surrender broken or am I just extremely unlucky? Why has the US mobilization % not moved in almost a year of game time?


Hi Harry

The US will automatically start increasing from the start of 1941 but only if the USSR has joined the Allies.

That changes from late 1941 when Pearl Harbor happens, with a one-off jump after that, and then starting in 1942 when a further script kicks in solely requiring the UK to be Allied for it to fire.

For the USSR, it has a 90% chance per turn of going up 1-2% from the start of 1941, with a further and separate 100% chance per turn from the 22nd June 1941 of increasing 1-3%.

From your description, it may be that everything is working as intended, and as 1941 progresses you should hopefully find your mobilization levels increasing. Please keep us informed on this.

Bill



Hubert Cater -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/16/2017 9:06:09 PM)

<deleted>

Bill posted a clearer version of the same question below [:)]



BillRunacre -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/16/2017 9:07:40 PM)

For Harrybanana and waclaw

In terms of the Iraq surrender, please could you go to:

Options -> Advanced -> Scripts

Select Surrender #2

And if you could let us know how many scripts with this name you can see it'll be useful:

#NAME= DE 624 - UK Invades Iraq In Response To Pro-Axis Coup (Variable)

Thanks

Bill



Harrybanana -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/16/2017 11:35:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: waclaw

quote:

it is now the May 22, 1941 Allied turn and the US and USSR have been stuck at around 40% mobilization each for several turns.


That is the plan. I'm avoiding all aggressive actions that could lead to increase US/USSR mobilization. So there was no US coastal raiding, no DoW on Greece/Yugoslavia, etc.


What exactly is "US coastal raiding"? I've seen a few players mention it, but don't see anything on it in the Manual.




Harrybanana -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/16/2017 11:43:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Runacre

Hi Harry

The US will automatically start increasing from the start of 1941 but only if the USSR has joined the Allies.

That changes from late 1941 when Pearl Harbor happens, with a one-off jump after that, and then starting in 1942 when a further script kicks in solely requiring the UK to be Allied for it to fire.

For the USSR, it has a 90% chance per turn of going up 1-2% from the start of 1941, with a further and separate 100% chance per turn from the 22nd June 1941 of increasing 1-3%.

From your description, it may be that everything is working as intended, and as 1941 progresses you should hopefully find your mobilization levels increasing. Please keep us informed on this.

Bill



Thanks for the information Bill. I guess this means that the UK will be fighting on alone for a while longer yet.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/17/2017 1:23:10 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Runacre
quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
It actually only has a 75% chance of happening

Hi Steve

This isn't actually the case, it has a 75% chance per turn of firing once the trigger conditions are met, just to ensure that the actual turn Iraq joins the Axis isn't guaranteed, providing a little variability.

Bill

This is what I see in the 1939 Campaign, and I thought it had to be Type = 2 in order to be checked every turn, which is why I said that.

;REMOVE1941
;
; Iraq Joins The Axis
{
#NAME= DE 106 - Pro-Axis Coup in Iraq (Iraq->Axis)
#POPUP= Pro-Axis Coup in Iraq
#IMAGE=
#SOUND= coup.ogg
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 1
#AI= 0
#GV= 1[1,100]
#LINK= 106[1]
#LEVEL= 0
#COUNTRY_ID= 56
#TRIGGER= 75
#DATE= 1939/09/03
; 200% mobilization increase towards Axis
#MOBILIZATION= [200,200] [1]
; Set variable conditions:
; 1st Line - Germany politically aligned with Axis and not surrendered
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 45 [1] [100] [0]
}

;REMOVE1941
;
; Iraq Joins The Axis
{
#NAME= DE 107 - Pro-Axis Coup in Iraq (Iraq->Axis)
#POPUP= Pro-Axis Coup in Iraq
#IMAGE=
#SOUND= coup.ogg
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 1
#AI= 0
#GV= 1[1,100]
#LINK= 106[0]
#LEVEL= 0
#COUNTRY_ID= 56
#TRIGGER= 75
#DATE= 1939/09/03
; 200% mobilization increase towards Axis
#MOBILIZATION= [200,200] [1]
; Set variable conditions:
; 1st Line - Germany politically aligned with Axis and not surrendered
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 45 [1] [100] [0]
}



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/17/2017 1:30:29 AM)

quote:

What exactly is "US coastal raiding"?

It is those Red Crosshatched hexes off the coasts of the US and Canada. Place a naval unit in one of them to 'raid'.

4.2.1. The War at Sea
You will notice that here there are red hatched
icons in the vicinity of some ports. These signify
good raiding areas, where your navy can attack and
sink enemy merchant ships and therefore reduce
the strength and supply level of the nearby port.



Harrybanana -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/17/2017 3:55:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

What exactly is "US coastal raiding"?

It is those Red Crosshatched hexes off the coasts of the US and Canada. Place a naval unit in one of them to 'raid'.

4.2.1. The War at Sea
You will notice that here there are red hatched
icons in the vicinity of some ports. These signify
good raiding areas, where your navy can attack and
sink enemy merchant ships and therefore reduce
the strength and supply level of the nearby port.


Thank you. I didn't even know you could raid the US coast prior to its War Entry. Anyway, I have never seen it done in any of my games.



Harrybanana -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/17/2017 3:57:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Runacre


quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrybanana

Yes, but I thought that the US and USSR were suppose to gain mobilization % (or at least have the chance to do so) every turn regardless of what the Axis does (just like Italy and the Axis minors do). In this case the US has been stuck at 33% for almost a year. Russia was stuck as well until early 41 and has made only marginal gains since to 42% mobilization. The result is that you are gaining a lot more MPPs than me every turn (about 850 to 500). If I am wrong about this (and there is no automatic Mobilization gain for the US and USSR) then this is something the Axis can clearly exploit. For example, in our game you could just stop attacking now (or at least don't do anything to increase US or USSR mobilization) and then out produce, out tech and out diplomacy me for the next 2 or 3 years until 43 or 44 and then launch simultaneous invasions of the UK and USSR with overwhelming force.

I may have to start a separate thread on this issue (if it is an issue).

Could we hear from the Developers please? Is the Iraq surrender broken or am I just extremely unlucky? Why has the US mobilization % not moved in almost a year of game time?


Hi Harry

The US will automatically start increasing from the start of 1941 but only if the USSR has joined the Allies.

That changes from late 1941 when Pearl Harbor happens, with a one-off jump after that, and then starting in 1942 when a further script kicks in solely requiring the UK to be Allied for it to fire.

For the USSR, it has a 90% chance per turn of going up 1-2% from the start of 1941, with a further and separate 100% chance per turn from the 22nd June 1941 of increasing 1-3%.

From your description, it may be that everything is working as intended, and as 1941 progresses you should hopefully find your mobilization levels increasing. Please keep us informed on this.

Bill



Bill does the US mobilization increase once France surrenders? If so, since France has not surrender in my game with Waclaw, that might be another explanation for the low US Mobilization number.



Harrybanana -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/17/2017 4:11:36 AM)

I didn't find the scripts the way you said, but I found 2 scripts as follows:

#NAME= DE 624 - UK Invades Iraq In Response To Pro-Axis Coup (Variable)
#POPUP= Allied Invasion Forces Sheik Rashid Ali To Resign - Iraqi Government Collapses
#IMAGE= ukoccupyiraq.png
#SOUND= battle2.ogg
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 1
#AI= 0
#GV= 1[1,100]
#LINK= 624[1]
#LEVEL= 0
#COUNTRY_ID= 56
#RECIPIENT_ID= 112
#ARMISTICE= 0
#REMOVE= 3
#TRIGGER= 25
#DATE= 1941/04/18
; Set variable conditions:
; 1st Line - UK politically aligned with Allies and not surrendered
; 2nd Line - Iraq politically Axis and not surrendered
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 112 [2] [100] [0]
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 56 [1] [100] [0]
; Allies within range of Baghdad
#CONDITION_POSITION= 234,120 [1,1] [2,2] [2] [0]
}

;REMOVE1941
;
; UK Invades Iraq
; Historical date of event was 1941/04/18
; Germany does not send a mission to support the Iraqis
{
#NAME= DE 624 - UK Invades Iraq In Response To Pro-Axis Coup (Variable)
#POPUP= Allied Invasion Forces Sheik Rashid Ali To Resign - Iraqi Government Collapses
#IMAGE= ukoccupyiraq.png
#SOUND= battle2.ogg
#FLAG= 1
#TYPE= 1
#AI= 0
#GV= 1[1,100]
#LINK= 624[0]
#LEVEL= 0
#COUNTRY_ID= 56
#RECIPIENT_ID= 112
#ARMISTICE= 0
#REMOVE= 3
#TRIGGER= 75
#DATE= 1941/04/18
; Set variable conditions:
; 1st Line - UK politically aligned with Allies and not surrendered
; 2nd Line - Iraq politically Axis and not surrendered
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 112 [2] [100] [0]
#VARIABLE_CONDITION= 56 [1] [100] [0]
; Allies within range of Baghdad
#CONDITION_POSITION= 234,120 [1,1] [2,2] [2] [0]
}



OxfordGuy3 -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/17/2017 4:38:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
available, then Iraq will not surrender due to the two unit rule. But you say that you did impose sanctions, so that's not an issue.
Grasping at straws, what two units are next to Baghdad? I think maybe garrisons don't count?


I hope Garrisons do count, otherwise I've made a big mistake in my only Allied PBEM game... :-(



Hubert Cater -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/17/2017 5:05:59 PM)

Thanks Harrybanana and if you don't see it listed there in game then it is not going to fire. I suspect this is related to a rare issue we've discovered and we are working to correct this for the next update.



Hubert Cater -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/17/2017 5:06:15 PM)

Hi Oxford, any units will suffice.



Hubert Cater -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/17/2017 6:13:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653
This is what I see in the 1939 Campaign, and I thought it had to be Type = 2 in order to be checked every turn, which is why I said that.


A TYPE=2 just means that the event will go on repeating, a TYPE=1 will only fire a single time after the conditions are met... so the 75% trigger is one of those conditions that needs to be met, and once that condition is met, the event is removed and never repeated as it is a TYPE=1




Harrybanana -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/17/2017 6:38:22 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hubert Cater

Thanks Harrybanana and if you don't see it listed there in game then it is not going to fire. I suspect this is related to a rare issue we've discovered and we are working to correct this for the next update.


Hubert, I am not a coder and know very little about computer programming. So when Bill told me to go to "Options -> Advanced -> Scripts" I did not know what he meant. Where do I find the "Options" tab? Is it in the Game Menu? If so I only saw a Settings Tab. Or is it in the Editor? If so I couldn't find it. So what I did was go to the game program itself on my C drive and found the scripts for the 1939 Campaign. Those are the ones I printed above.

I have another game that has reached the same point. So far just one turn without triggering the Iraqi surrender. But if there is a bug will it repeat in this game as well, or is that unlikely?



KorutZelva -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/17/2017 6:53:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hubert Cater

Hi Oxford, any units will suffice.


Ha! Next time I'll send a plane.



Harrybanana -> RE: Iraq Not Surrendering Bug? (11/17/2017 7:05:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hubert Cater

Hi Oxford, any units will suffice.


Ha! Next time I'll send a plane.


Hubert, will a plane work. I suppose it is then prone to being attacked by the Iraqi garrison.



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