RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (Full Version)

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Jason Petho -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (1/22/2018 2:49:12 PM)

FYI, the "Ir" and "US" notations indicate the primary weapon types of the infantry platoons.



Oberst_Klink -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (1/22/2018 2:52:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho

FYI, the "Ir" and "US" notations indicate the primary weapon types of the infantry platoons.

What always amazed me is, how they managed to keep the US imported F-4's flying without spares after the embargo...

Klink, Oberst



Jason Petho -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (1/22/2018 2:56:41 PM)

Cannibalizing...

When the going gets rough, the rough cannibalize.



Oberst_Klink -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (1/22/2018 3:13:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jason Petho

Cannibalizing...

When the going gets rough, the rough cannibalize.

True... but still... they must have managed it better than the 'Galactica' cannibalising the old Viper models :D

Klink, Oberst



Hexagon -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (1/22/2018 6:01:10 PM)

Ummm i imagine that "Ir" refers to the prewar iranian army equipment (G3 assault rifles enter in this category) later maybe we can see "CN" designation for chinese equipment even "SV" for soviet... i know very little about Iran-Irak war but the armament supply is like Game of Thrones but with more cliff angers and jetpack moments (i refer to the TV show [:D])

I see strange the lack of a mech infantry brigade in iranian armored divisions but well, they use the west "king size" tank battalions and maybe they have bigger mech infantry battalion in the armored brigades and is not like they have a lot of material even in early part of war to mantein a generous mech infantry support.

I remember read to about how good was Irak to keep working their high tech equipment even with no support, looks like arab countries apart of be specialist in burn good material with a bad use from semiprofesional armies they can use when they dont have supplies a good amount of inventiveness... but not allways they hit the target [:D]

I think Quasimodo finds his armored couterpart [8|]
https://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=902

With this i am divided in 2... increase armor good, do it with reactive armor in a thin armored vehicle... i prefer dont be inside or outside [X(]

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=464192





Jason Petho -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (1/22/2018 6:10:54 PM)

There are “Cz” (Czech arms, from the 40’ through 60’s, although some infantry units were still armed with them at the time of the war, “US”. ( US arms started arriving in the 50’s, “Ir” ( locally produced under licence arms of various origin) and “Co” for the usual Communist weapons

The 80’s orbats are based on Micro mark lists



Jason Petho -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (1/22/2018 6:12:03 PM)

The 40’s through 70’s are based on various intelligence and army reports



Af1352pasha -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (1/23/2018 12:11:20 PM)

As I think Before 1950-1960 there is not major interest about oob! most of division was purely infantry with one regiment of artillery and some support armored car and light tank versions.

Most important period was 1970s which in that duration major reformation of equipment happened.new air force fighters new naval equipment and base on CS-ME ground force structure changed.

Unfortunately there is no certain information about composition of Iranian army before eve of war with Iraq clear. we shall consider general formation base on available data.

Jason Petho order sample order of battle is correct but it need some minor adjustment such as armored cavalry organization! BMP-1 was newly imported at that time from soviet about 150 Pcs but some used after start of war to organized mechanized infantry battalion and some used to refitted armored cavalry battalions which was heavily damaged during first week of war to slow the advance of Iraqi invasion , good sample was 283rd Armored cavalry battalion ( it consist 21 x scorpion tanks , 6 M113 Tow and 9 120mm M113 mortar carrier which changed later its armored carrier to BMP-1.before that and as normal oob it used BTR-60 as its troop carrier.

Look at below oob for on armored cavalry company of Iranian army, its is near to their general table of equipment such as us army in 1977:



[image]local://upfiles/36167/E3129EE17B224680842808D48C46FD95.jpg[/image]



Af1352pasha -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (1/23/2018 12:13:12 PM)

next



Af1352pasha -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (1/23/2018 12:14:17 PM)

next is BMP-1 version of Armored Cavlary:


[image]local://upfiles/36167/13999663C326496DA124E87BACB90BA8.jpg[/image]



Crossroads -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (1/23/2018 12:33:38 PM)

ITVs, Scorpions, and BTRs/BMP-1s in the same organization! How neat [:)]



Af1352pasha -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (1/23/2018 12:55:08 PM)

because of mix of west and east equipment

Iranian tanks Cobra AH-1J and anti tanks weapons was mostly from western source but the carriers , transports and most bridge equipment was from soviet.



Switzer -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (1/23/2018 12:58:50 PM)

I recently played a megagame on the Iran Iraqui war and started as iraqus chief of staff but was sacked though my 2 succrssors were both shot
We lost hormuz early but counterattacked and by peace time we has Abadan khorramshah and had wrecked Ahwaz to screw the Iranian economy
We also recognised israels right to exist and got cluster bombs from the yanks which were tres useful against human wave assaults



Jason Petho -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (1/23/2018 2:14:01 PM)

This is what I have for the armoured cavalry, as a sample

79 01 83 12 B5716209 3 Armoured Cavalry Battalion 79 - FV101 Scorpion/EE-9/M113 - Ir - 0VP
79 01 83 12 P573010 Headquarters
79 01 83 12 C5706219 Armour Reconnaissance Squadron 79 - FV101 Scorpion
79 01 83 12 C5706221 Reconnaissance Company 79 - EE-9/M113 - Ir
79 01 83 12 C5706221 Reconnaissance Company 79 - EE-9/M113 - Ir
79 01 83 12 P577004 M113

79 01 83 12 C5706219 3 Armour Reconnaissance Squadron 79 - FV101 Scorpion - 0VP
79 01 83 12 P576030 FV101 Scorpion HQ(x2)
79 01 83 12 P576029 FV101 Scorpion(x4)
79 01 83 12 P576029 FV101 Scorpion(x4)
79 01 83 12 P576029 FV101 Scorpion(x4)

79 01 83 12 C5706221 3 Reconnaissance Company 79 - EE-9/M113 - Ir - 0VP
79 01 83 12 P576026 1/1st EE-9(x3)
79 01 83 12 P572060 2/1st Reconnaissance 79
79 01 83 12 P577004 2/1st M113(x2)
79 01 83 12 P576026 1/2nd EE-9(x3)
79 01 83 12 P572060 2/2nd Reconnaissance 79
79 01 83 12 P577004 2/2nd M113(x2)

I'll revise/add the organizations that you displayed above.



Jason Petho -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (1/23/2018 2:16:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Af1352pasha

As I think Before 1950-1960 there is not major interest about oob! most of division was purely infantry with one regiment of artillery and some support armored car and light tank versions.


Interest or not, our standards are to ensure the organizations are built throughout the time frame of our games, so if someone wants to create hypothetical battles in the various decades, they can do that.

I will also be covering some of the fighting against the Kurds in the 40's through 70's.



Jason Petho -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (1/23/2018 3:35:24 PM)

Added Companies

79 01 83 12 C57062XX 3 Reconnaissance Company 79 - II - Scorpion/BTR-60 - US - 0VP
79 01 83 12 P576030 1/1st Scorpion(x2)
79 01 83 12 P577010 2/1st Rifle 79(US)
79 01 83 12 P577032 2/1st BTR-60(x4)
79 01 83 12 P576030 1/1st Scorpion(x2)
79 01 83 12 P577010 2/2nd Rifle 79(US)
79 01 83 12 P577032 2/2nd BTR-60(x4)
79 01 83 12 P576030 1/3rd Scorpion(x2)
79 01 83 12 P577010 2/3rd Rifle 79(US)
79 01 83 12 P577032 2/3rd BTR-60(x4)
79 01 83 12 P577004 M125A1(x3)
79 01 83 12 P579016 M150(x2)
79 01 83 12 P579005 M825-106mm(x3)

79 01 83 12 C5706222 3 Reconnaissance Company 79 - FV101 Scorpion/BMP-1 - Ir - 0VP
79 01 83 12 P576030 1/1st FV101 Scorpion(x2)
79 01 83 12 P572022 2/1st Rifle 79(Ir)
79 01 83 12 P577010 2/1st BMP-1(x4)
79 01 83 12 P576030 1/2nd FV101 Scorpion(x2)
79 01 83 12 P572022 2/2nd Rifle 79(Ir)
79 01 83 12 P577010 2/2nd BMP-1(x4)
79 01 83 12 P576030 1/3rd FV101 Scorpion(x2)
79 01 83 12 P572022 2/3rd Rifle 79(Ir)
79 01 83 12 P577010 2/3rd BMP-1(x4)
79 01 83 12 P577004 M125A1(x3)
79 01 83 12 P579016 M150(x2)
79 01 83 12 P579005 M825-106mm(x3)



Hexagon -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (1/24/2018 5:49:59 PM)

Nice OOB Af1352pasha, i remember see them in other forum but cant remember where they are from.

Looks like the mix of equipment is going to be stronk and this made create OOBs "fun" [:D]



Af1352pasha -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (1/25/2018 3:28:46 AM)

This a typical Tank Battalion oob in armored brigade in 1979-1980 type of the tank can be replaced by M60-A1 but generally 2/3 of battalions equipped with chieftain and remain with M60-A1.

There was one tank battalion in infantry division which mostly used M-47 or M-48 Patton.

[image]local://upfiles/36167/14D04D90DE1644E9972D426CF8AD5CE6.jpg[/image]



Af1352pasha -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (1/25/2018 3:32:54 AM)

Tank platoons:

[image]local://upfiles/36167/AEF4E72304034823AE6936ED3012B8F6.jpg[/image]



Jason Petho -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (1/25/2018 4:02:22 AM)

Fantastic.

What is the source of that?



Af1352pasha -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (1/25/2018 4:24:34 AM)

Thanks,

I have two main sources, firstly ST 17-1-1 circa 1977 of US army which Iranian army in 1970 was constructed base on that but with some variations and several type of other equipment. The second source is some military history books of Iranian army which published after 8 years war and you can find good view of oob, description of battles and other topics ( not English translated ).

About the graphics I mostly use ship-bucket drawings with some modification.

In next steps I will go to mechanized infantry Battalion.



Jason Petho -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (1/25/2018 5:06:30 AM)

Absolutely fantastic, thank you so much!



Jason Petho -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (1/25/2018 3:41:50 PM)

Good day!

I'm just looking at the Armoured Cavalry Squadron for the Iranians in Post 38.

You're showing that each platoon had three squads of infantry. A quick comparison between the two

The US Model shows:

An HQ with an APC and 2 men
A rifle squad in an APC with 11 men
A scout section consissting of 4 APC's with 3 men each
A light Armour section of 3 tanks with 4 men each
the mortar squad in APC with 5 men

Your Iranian platoon shows
an HQ with an APC and 5 men
three rifle squads with 3 APCs and 11 men each
a light armour sections of 2 Scorpions with 3 men each
the mortar squad in APC with 5 men
M875 RR with three men

The organization looks awesome, but I am questioning the three rifle squads. That seems quite heavy compared to the US model.

Any ideas?





[image]local://upfiles/12395/39E5B471ACAD4072A8C2129F40120F06.jpg[/image]



Af1352pasha -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (1/25/2018 4:20:33 PM)

Because lack of APC and tanks, quantity of APC scout vehicles reduced.battalion Rule of scouting changed to rule of fast screen formation to absorb first wave of armored attach with aid of gunship cobra AH-1J and Airforce. As there is no shortage of infantry, all APC used as troop carrier with full rifle team capacity.

As I mentioned before, each battalion standard OOB consist 21 scorpion light tank , 6 Tow M113 and 9xM113 mortar carrier .

If you look at Mechanized infantry battalion of US army 1977 you will find another sample for difference. US Mechanized infantry battalion had 18 Tow-M113 but Iranian table of organization for mechanized infantry battalion only consisted 6 Tow-M113 vehicles, about 33 APC and other reduced equipment but foundation of organization is US army 1970 standard.

However at this time with shortage of detailed documents of real order of battle the nearest reference is ST 17-1-1 circa 1977 with some balancing from published war report as Iranian Army published books.




Jason Petho -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (1/25/2018 4:22:34 PM)

Makes sense to me!

Was curious!

Thank you for the reply!



Af1352pasha -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (1/25/2018 4:25:37 PM)

I hope until release of your mod in next summer we can find nearest model of organization and modify current information. and also have a time to look at Iraqi order of battle!



Jason Petho -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (1/25/2018 4:26:30 PM)

Absolutely!!

I would love to get these as accurate as possible, of course!



Af1352pasha -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (2/6/2018 1:35:01 AM)

Next part is 1980 infantry battalion of Iranian regular army which consist of three infantry company, one combat support company as below sketches( in later stages of the war the fourth infantry company also added to OOB ).

There were also battalion HQ company which include support,transport, medical and maintenance platoons which have not effected to game, but i will try to put it if found some exact information.



Af1352pasha -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (2/6/2018 1:35:53 AM)

Infantry company:

[image]local://upfiles/36167/84A0AF64E63E4E2A88C6A30CCD601B99.jpg[/image]



Af1352pasha -> RE: Iran-Iraq War DLC (2/6/2018 1:37:04 AM)

Combat Support Company:


[image]local://upfiles/36167/F3DAD300C46B48CAA862B5730A59A85E.jpg[/image]



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