RE: OT: The Last Jedi (Full Version)

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John 3rd -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/18/2017 10:52:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

Last Jedi was a bad movie.

Director made up stuff to move the 500 plot lines along, then discarded the stuff when it wasn't convenient.

1/3rd of the movie was completely irrelevant to the story.

The 'fake-out' death at the beginning was really poorly done and in extremely poor taste.

When it comes to the Kylo/Luke/Rey/Snoke plot, the director forgot he was directing Act 2 instead of Act 3.

The director let a vision of the special effects drive the story, instead of having the story drive the special effects.

The director left a big mess for JJ Abrams to clean up in Episode X.

You must have left your inner child at home. [:D]
It's Episode IX, not X, that comes next. Rogue One is Episode III.5 [&:]



I describe Rogue One as Episode 3.95.




USSAmerica -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/19/2017 2:12:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson


I've been an SF geek from an early age. Grew up watching Star Trek and saw most if not all the SF shows of the 70s and 80s growing up. I also read SF voraciously until the internet came along. I never got into Star Wars though. I saw Episodes 4-6 once each back when they initially came out, but I haven't seen anything the franchise has produced since.

Bill


My wife grew up with one of the Authors of The Expanse series. Sci Fi channel has shown the first two seasons and the third is set to begin in January, IIRC. For true connoisseurs of Sci Fi, I'd strongly recommend this.


I watched the first season of The Expanse and loved it! Working on securing access to the second season. [:)]




etsadler -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/19/2017 3:06:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

SPOILERS - Who would have thought that all along, Yoda could use force-lightning, you know, a decidedly Sith-type force power?



My alternate interpretation is that Yoda manipulated the atmosphere to create traditional lightning.




Skyros -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/19/2017 3:32:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson


I've been an SF geek from an early age. Grew up watching Star Trek and saw most if not all the SF shows of the 70s and 80s growing up. I also read SF voraciously until the internet came along. I never got into Star Wars though. I saw Episodes 4-6 once each back when they initially came out, but I haven't seen anything the franchise has produced since.

Bill


My wife grew up with one of the Authors of The Expanse series. Sci Fi channel has shown the first two seasons and the third is set to begin in January, IIRC. For true connoisseurs of Sci Fi, I'd strongly recommend this.



Very good show, can't wait for season three.




John 3rd -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/19/2017 3:32:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RickInVA


quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

SPOILERS - Who would have thought that all along, Yoda could use force-lightning, you know, a decidedly Sith-type force power?



My alternate interpretation is that Yoda manipulated the atmosphere to create traditional lightning.


Would concur with that.




AcePylut -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/19/2017 5:18:57 PM)

Force Ghosts manipulating the physical world? Nonsense. Bad storywriting because the director wanted Yoda to do something besides glow and speak with bad sentence structure. No one's a bigger fanboy of Star Wars than I am... but this movie was bad.

Lemme axe you - do you rapidly freeze in space, or.. does your blood boil and then it takes years and years and years to freeze?




etsadler -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/19/2017 5:33:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

Force Ghosts manipulating the physical world? Nonsense. Bad storywriting because the director wanted Yoda to do something besides glow and speak with bad sentence structure. No one's a bigger fanboy of Star Wars than I am... but this movie was bad.

Lemme axe you - do you rapidly freeze in space, or.. does your blood boil and then it takes years and years and years to freeze?


Well, I would have rather that scene ran its "natural" course (if such a word has meaning in the Star Wars universe). But, powerful the Force is. There really are no rules. The Yoda scene just reinforces, for me, that Yoda is a supreme master of the Force.

Having said that, we all generally have preconceived notions of what is "reasonable" and don't like to see those preconceptions violated. I feel that you think it is bad because it violates a lot of your preconceptions of what is and is not both acceptable and reasonable. You are not alone. I feel I do not share those preconceptions and therefore have no trouble enjoying the movie.




Canoerebel -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/19/2017 5:53:58 PM)

This thread reminds me of the Dunkirk thread early in the year. We were all very excited about seeing that movie, but then we broke into two camps - some who loved it, some who didn't. Looks like Star Wars may be in the same boat - on Rotten Tomatoes, 93% of "professional" reviewers gave it high scores, but only 56% of regular folks. That's an interesting divergence.




Yaab -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/19/2017 6:06:48 PM)

What I hate about Star Wars is the fact that The Millenium Falcon's onboard entertainment consisted of some lame HoI5 3d chess game. No wonder they used warp speed all the time. The horror, the horror!




AcePylut -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/19/2017 7:22:20 PM)


Please note, I don't care that Leia used force power to go back to the ship. My issue with that scene was that it was a fake-out death in the first place.

I don't care that Rey's parents were nobodies. Other than the skywalker clan – wherein Anakin was a “vergence” in the force – I never viewed Jedi or Sith as being hereditary.

My main issue is that the movie was extremely poorly written. The director had this idea that he wanted “these” special effects, and he wrote an inconsistent and bad story to get to those special effects… instead of writing a really good, consistent, story that led to the special effects. Here’s some of my complaints culled from my facebook postings:

MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD – YOU’VE BEEN WARNEDW

Who’d have thought that Yoda had the ability to use the Sith Force-Lightning Power all these years? I know - a director that wanted a splashy lightning-bolt eye-candy on-screen instead of a boring telekinesis power to move books into a fire scene.

What really irks me about this movie is that something gets established (they’re trapped in this old base with no way out) but it gets thrown away 5 minutes later when it’s no longer convenient to the plot (oh wait there is a way out, we’ll just follow these fox creatures). It's similar to how Indiana Jones is completely irrelevant to Raiders of the Lost Ark, Luke’s arrival and death is completely irrelevant to the escape from a Hidden Rebel Base. Had Luke not been there, The First Order would have blown the doors open, the Crystal Foxes would have run through the hidden caves, the Rebels would still have followed the crystal foxes and escaped. Luke died for no reason at all.

Yeah I thought her death would be a great conclusion to her story, since Carrie passed away. But nope. It's a big fake out. Lame. Also, I'm a stickler for getting science things sort of right, such as - you don't freeze to death in space, what happens is that your blood boils. Also, it takes a really long time to actually "freeze" in space, because there's nothing that will take your body's heat away from you. I don't recall star wars changing those physics in their galaxy.

So Snoke gets chopped in half, and then his red garbed guards attack. Right there I’m thinking they’d be thinking “nope, not going to attack them, these two force users just chopped Snoke in half, I ain’t touchin’ them.” But whatevs… let’s, for the sake of argument, assume they do attack. Kylo Ren would force snap the neck of the first red guard that came after him. Then he’d snap the neck of the second red guard that came after him. Then the rest of the red guards would back away and drop their weapons and give up. But no… the director must have been thinking, “force neck snap isn’t big-awesome-eye-candy, and I want a ‘Kylo and Rey as Allies lightsaber fight’, and this is my plot design to get to the big awesome visual whoosh whoosh lightsaber fight”.

The “can’t hear you, is General Hux there” was funny the first time, but by the third I was “ok ok ok I get it”.

I thought the furry penguins were well done – they were cute, they were funny, and their screen time was extremely limited.

At least 1/3 of the movie was a completely irrelevant distraction on some side-quest that went nowhere and wasn’t necessary: “Lets get Finn together with this girl send them to find an ‘always entertaining’ Benecio Del Toro to show a high roller casino / chase scene and then have them sneak into the big bad ship to disable the super secret tracking device only to get caught just so we move into a faux-lightsaber battle to kill Capt Phasma and, um, not disable the tracking device, because… we aren’t going to perform a miracle escape that way anyways, but it does let us introduce a side-plot to this side-quest via a mutiny from the hot headed X-wing pilot that went nowhere and didn’t matter anyways.” Why not just use this side-quest ship that can’t be tracked to, idk, maybe pick up some fuel? Or maybe use this untrackable ship to, idk, evacuate the rebels to parts unknown? That’s just bad, inconsistent, storytelling.

You’re telling me the “First Order” didn’t have any other ships that were around, that could, I don’t know, hyperspace to “in front” of the rebels? Is it just the rebels that could detach a ship that isn’t trackable to fly across space, sidequest a casino, and hyperspace back in the time frame? You mean that every single First Order ship wasn’t en-route to kill the last remaining bits of the rebellion? At least in ANH, Empire, and Jedi – there was some semi-believable and logical military tactics and strategy.

The fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy can't outrun a star destroyer, but some old-school beater-cruiser can outrun a brand new batch of "First Order" ships?

Then - when it comes to the whole Snoke/Luke/Rey/Kylo plot - It felt like the director really wanted to make the 3rd act of the trilogy, and kind of forgot that this movie is the 2nd act. That’s all I’ll say about that, for now. Hope I didn’t rain on anyone’s parade too much. Rant Off, for now.




Zorch -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/19/2017 8:24:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

This thread reminds me of the Dunkirk thread early in the year. We were all very excited about seeing that movie, but then we broke into two camps - some who loved it, some who didn't. Looks like Star Wars may be in the same boat - on Rotten Tomatoes, 93% of "professional" reviewers gave it high scores, but only 56% of regular folks. That's an interesting divergence.

Yes, indeed. https://www.wired.com/story/star-wars-the-last-jedi-crosstalk/ has a discussion of this.




Franciscus -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/19/2017 8:50:04 PM)

Very disappointing...IMHO Rogue One was more entertaining and better directed...

I am afraid that finally the Star Wars "magic" has disappeared to me...although I will never forget the little kid's utter sense of amazement watching for the first time, more than 35 years ago, Empire Strikes Back on a big screen theatre with my dad. That will never go away...




Zorch -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/19/2017 9:05:15 PM)

I think the emphasis has changed from character-driven to plot-driven.





Chickenboy -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/19/2017 9:32:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyros


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson


I've been an SF geek from an early age. Grew up watching Star Trek and saw most if not all the SF shows of the 70s and 80s growing up. I also read SF voraciously until the internet came along. I never got into Star Wars though. I saw Episodes 4-6 once each back when they initially came out, but I haven't seen anything the franchise has produced since.

Bill


My wife grew up with one of the Authors of The Expanse series. Sci Fi channel has shown the first two seasons and the third is set to begin in January, IIRC. For true connoisseurs of Sci Fi, I'd strongly recommend this.



Very good show, can't wait for season three.


I've read the first four books in the series and have enjoyed them as well.




John 3rd -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/21/2017 12:12:12 AM)

OK. I started the Thread but then held off commentary until the movie had been out for a while.

To say that I was profoundly disappointed is an understatement. My son loved it. I really enjoyed certain parts of the movie but thought the whole casino, animal rights portion of the film was useless and a waste of film. The Leia Peter Pan/Superman scene defied the imagination. Luke dying FOR NOTHING truly checked me out. The plot simply wasn't thought out. You telling me that the First Order cannot swarm the Resistance with fighters to slow the cruisers and then kill it? How about just 2-3 of those Star Destroyers simply jumping ahead and killing it?? S..T..U..P..I..D!

I can and should continue but will not. Want to keep my blood pressure under control.

We plan to see it again so I will have a second chance to look at it.




wdolson -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/21/2017 5:15:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson


I've been an SF geek from an early age. Grew up watching Star Trek and saw most if not all the SF shows of the 70s and 80s growing up. I also read SF voraciously until the internet came along. I never got into Star Wars though. I saw Episodes 4-6 once each back when they initially came out, but I haven't seen anything the franchise has produced since.

Bill


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy
My wife grew up with one of the Authors of The Expanse series. Sci Fi channel has shown the first two seasons and the third is set to begin in January, IIRC. For true connoisseurs of Sci Fi, I'd strongly recommend this.


quote:

ORIGINAL: USSAmerica
I watched the first season of The Expanse and loved it! Working on securing access to the second season. [:)]


The Expanse is pretty good, it's a story like written SF. I thought Season 2 dragged a bit in the middle, but I still kept watching it.




Denniss -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/21/2017 10:33:44 AM)

For me the original Star Wars Trilogy is and was the best, the second Troligy was still good but not really super.
When I first saw Episode VII my first thought was WTF?!? - many story elements smelled like taken from the first trilogy. The actory were actually good but the story lacked and the whole film lacked the charme of the first trilogy.




AcePylut -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/21/2017 5:08:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

OK. I started the Thread but then held off commentary until the movie had been out for a while.

To say that I was profoundly disappointed is an understatement. My son loved it. I really enjoyed certain parts of the movie but thought the whole casino, animal rights portion of the film was useless and a waste of film. The Leia Peter Pan/Superman scene defied the imagination. Luke dying FOR NOTHING truly checked me out. The plot simply wasn't thought out. You telling me that the First Order cannot swarm the Resistance with fighters to slow the cruisers and then kill it? How about just 2-3 of those Star Destroyers simply jumping ahead and killing it?? S..T..U..P..I..D!

I can and should continue but will not. Want to keep my blood pressure under control.

We plan to see it again so I will have a second chance to look at it.



Read Post #40 and feel my rage...
[:D]




Yaab -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/21/2017 5:18:55 PM)

The Last Jedi: Wrist's Cut Edition

Elderly Luke, directed by a mysterious voice in his head, going by the name of Fandom Menace, uses the Force for the very last time to break the time-space continuum, and travels to California, USA to terminate-retire George Lucas, the evil Sith Overlord, who masterminds a galactic conspiracy of mind-control, poised to erase all knowledge of the original Republic and the true Jedi from the humankind.




Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/21/2017 6:56:56 PM)

I don't think I will watch it

for me it is a big red flag when the so called "critics" are so out of touch with the general audience opinions

[image]local://upfiles/41287/1C6E32201179406B8CC4A59D54A5B375.jpg[/image]




Canoerebel -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/21/2017 6:59:10 PM)

And those numbers are dropping. A week ago, the "expert" rating was 93% and the "regular folks" rating was 56%. That's not a favorable trend.




Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/21/2017 8:04:01 PM)

I can accept a gap between critics and general audience if this was an "artsy" film, something made by David Lynch or Lars Von Trier, but a SW movie?? no way




AcePylut -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/22/2017 12:29:06 PM)

I just watched Phantom Menace with my 4 year old. That movie gets panned because of Jar Jar Binks - but its a much better movie than Last Jedi. Much much much better movie.


And for what it's worth, my 4 year old loved Jar Jar.... "Daddy - can he say his 'r's?" "Daddy, is that what I sounded like when I was a baby?" "Are they in the bad guy prison?" "Are they going to the sand-planet?" "Dad, that's a big fish oh man!" "That guy has 2 lightsabers."

Hehehe - precious little 4 year old's favorite character? Darth Maul. (I've taught my young padawan well :D )




John 3rd -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/22/2017 1:54:12 PM)

My (now 13-year old) LOVED Darth Maul when he was an infant. He couldn't say Darth Maul so he would say 'watch BAD Dad?' 'Watch BAD Dad??' That is a find memory...




AcePylut -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/22/2017 2:49:47 PM)

I saw Star Wars, in the theater, when I was 5 years old. I got a “Millennium Falcon” for Christmas and it was my favorite toy. That movie launched an obsession with space that led me to getting into aviation. It led me to one of my bachelor’s being an Aerospace Eng degree. Led me to astronomy and physics as a hobby.

I feel betrayed by this travesty called “Last Jedi”. I’m at the point where my mind will not accept it as Star Wars canon... but I can see the makings of a great Star Wars flick in there. I’m thinking to myself… “Well when the DVD comes out, I’ll buy it, then put in the hundreds of hours and re-cut it myself to make the movie I think it should be.”




Chickenboy -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/22/2017 3:09:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: AcePylut

I just watched Phantom Menace with my 4 year old. That movie gets panned because of Jar Jar Binks - but its a much better movie than Last Jedi. Much much much better movie.



Phantom Menace gets panned because of wooden and stilted dialogue, miscast primary characters, boring stretches (The Galactic Senate? Really?) and, yes, Jar Jar Binks. It is by far the worst of the franchise that I've seen thus far. If Last Jedi is worse than that, I'm officially done with the franchise altogether. I'll let you know later this week.




Chickenboy -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/22/2017 3:11:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

We plan to see it again so I will have a second chance to look at it.



Whut? Didn't you pan the movie just a moment ago? [&:]




Canoerebel -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/22/2017 3:21:57 PM)

Me and my boys like the newer trilogy (I, II and III) a lot, though we definitely didn't like aspects of I and II (the pod race - arg!). But we all think III is the best of all the Star Wars movies.

I also like IV (the original Star Wars) and remember the complete awe when I saw it as a 16-year-old in 1977. What a spectacular movie in comparison to the rudimentary special effects used up to that moment. Star Wars was a game-changing movie. A benchmark.

I haven't liked any of the new ones. I won't go see the newest, though I'll probably check it out from Red Box at some point.




Chickenboy -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/22/2017 3:36:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
But we all think III is the best of all the Star Wars movies.


[sm=nono.gif]





[;)]




BBfanboy -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/22/2017 3:45:54 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

My (now 13-year old) LOVED Darth Maul when he was an infant. He couldn't say Darth Maul so he would say 'watch BAD Dad?' 'Watch BAD Dad??' That is a find memory...


Hey, at my age I am always in "find memory" mode - you should still have fond memories! [:)]




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