RE: OT: The Last Jedi (Full Version)

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jamesjohns -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/22/2017 4:35:12 PM)


My 2 cents worth

Give you an idea of my own movie preferences

Was in middle school when Original "New Hope" came out, was perfect age/target audience, Star Wars geek ever since. [;)](Luke as a teen, Obi Wan old) Loved New Hope and Empire Strikes back, loved 1st half of Return of the Jedi, but very disappointed with Ewok. Really, 3 foot teddy bears with sticks beating Storm Troopers?? Now if Endor had bunch of angry Wookies with sticks and rocks smashing storm troopers, that would be great.

Really disliked prequels, 1st one (Ankin as a child). Lots of reasons; Jar Jar [:@]force power measured by a blood test, Jedi are nonchalant about slavery, only saving grace was fight with Darth Maul, Ewan McGregor and Liam Neson. 2nd prequel, Anikin is whining teen, really, really bad acting, overemphasis on bad CGI. Did like the general idea of how/why he starts to turn and Ewan MCGregor did a good job with Obi Wan. 3rd one is watchable for me, still really bad acting by Anikin, but Obi Wan did great and plot was ok.

Loved Rogue One, really well done

Really enjoyed The Force Awakens, liked the new characters and story line. Only problem I had was the whole "Let's build another Death Star". The operational plans of the Empire, or Last Order must be from the the same staff that buys Storm Trooper Armor. Admiral, our armor can't even stop sticks from 3 foot teddy bears and do you know what happened to the 1st two Death Stars?

SPOILERS for Last Jedi

Mixed feelings on it. Like the graphics and return to some of the big space battles. Liked almost all of the characters and the overall direction of the plot and the length of the move. Also enjoyed teasing of Kylo turning good, or at least not totally bad. Like the fight with Kylo, Rey and guards.

Dislikes, Luke as the grumpy old hermit who tries to kill his nephew in his sleep. Luke as a dairy farmer was really really bad, I am ok with his death but wish he would have been more of the philosophical, mentor role for Ray, teaching her the force. Show him as conflicted/reluctant to teach her, worried about his own pull toward dark side and his experience teaching Kylo. He just came across as the "kids, get off my lawn" guy.

Just hoping they bring back Wedge Antilles for the last move




BBfanboy -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/22/2017 5:00:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: jamesjohns

Dislikes, Luke as the grumpy old hermit who tries to kill his nephew in his sleep. Luke as a dairy farmer was really really bad, I am ok with his death but wish he would have been more of the philosophical, mentor role for Ray, teaching her the force. Show him as conflicted/reluctant to teach her, worried about his own pull toward dark side and his experience teaching Kylo. He just came across as the "kids, get off my lawn" guy.



[:D]
We should invite him to join our Geezer thread in the War Room!



IdahoNYer -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/23/2017 4:30:04 AM)

Saw it tonight with the kids back from college. Traditional Star Wars Movie venture!

Overall....it didn't suck. Better than the Force Awakens which just seemed to be a bad rehash of Episode IV.

I liked Rogue One, and I didn't think this was as good. Had some good moments, but geeze....if the Empire (or whatever they're called now) is this bad...how the heck did they conquer the galaxy?

Biggest drawback to me was the emphasis on big splashy effects vs. the story and characters....and it was a tad long.




Olorin -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/23/2017 6:27:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

This thread reminds me of the Dunkirk thread early in the year. We were all very excited about seeing that movie, but then we broke into two camps - some who loved it, some who didn't. Looks like Star Wars may be in the same boat - on Rotten Tomatoes, 93% of "professional" reviewers gave it high scores, but only 56% of regular folks. That's an interesting divergence.


It just shows that the studio allocated some money to obtain good reviews. [8D]



MakeeLearn -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/24/2017 2:17:00 PM)



Just play in the yard and make your own Star Wars drama.

[image]local://upfiles/55056/00F4CD51C8B54EC8BBC682162BC7119C.jpg[/image]



John 3rd -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/24/2017 3:36:57 PM)

THAT IS COOL! (or HOT I suppose...)



Aurorus -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/24/2017 9:20:37 PM)

The story, plot, and characters in the the Bioware game Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, and especially the sequel by Obsidian, Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic II were far better than anything Hollywood has produced since the original 3 Star Wars movies. I think that the creative spark moved to game-making some time ago, and there are few, if any, creative people remaining in motion pictures. Unfortunately, video games now are moving in the same direction as Hollywood.

As an aside, I find it very annoying that movies produced in the English-speaking world now all base their plots and characters around the political issues and agendas important to the U.S. and England. Once art becomes tied to political propaganda and stops being art for the sake of art, it is no longer art. Go watch old Soviet Russian-language movies and you will see how bad politically driven "art" eventually becomes.



geofflambert -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (12/25/2017 2:12:04 AM)

I would answer all critiques in a totally fair manner, except that my light sabre is not functional for some reason, at the moment. It operates (or not) on Windows 10. I don't in fact know if that has anything to do with it, I just have my suspicions.



Canoerebel -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (1/6/2018 11:29:00 PM)

Ratings for The Last Jedi continue to fall on Rotten Tomatoes. How does Disney take this? It invested massively and Star Wars seems like a safe bet to succeed, but hype and enthusiasm for each new release is key. What happens if there are two or three duds in a row? What happens if there is no longer any sense of hype or expectation?

Disney must be analyzing everything carefully to determine the cause of the disconnect and how to address it.

P.S. I have enjoyed the Star Wars franchise through the years. I hope the franchise is successful in putting out movies that delight audiences, including me. So I'm not pulling against Star Wars. I just find the financial aspects interesting.

[image]local://upfiles/8143/420B85E0E74C4014AD956BC038208B83.jpg[/image]



JeffroK -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (1/6/2018 11:42:34 PM)

I think they got a great opening week, possibly made their money already.
Some of these review sites get deteriorating reviews as time passes, those happy dont comment, the unhappy get online and lower the ratings.



Canoerebel -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (1/6/2018 11:55:54 PM)

Right. The anticipation led to a massive opening. But the movie has since underperformed greatly, with viewership falling in ways unheard of for a Star Wars movie. For this movie, that may not matter - the investment might've been covered. But what happens if there's an erosion in anticipation so that future openings don't cover the investment? That's what's intriguing. That's something that Disney has to be wondering about.



Zorch -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (1/7/2018 12:04:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Right. The anticipation led to a massive opening. But the movie has since underperformed greatly, with viewership falling in ways unheard of for a Star Wars movie. For this movie, that may not matter - the investment might've been covered. But what happens if there's an erosion in anticipation so that future openings don't cover the investment? That's what's intriguing. That's something that Disney has to be wondering about.

Audience expectations increase with each film. It's not enough to make a 'good' movie; it must be better than the previous one.
I think this accounts for part of the difference between critics and audience scores.



John 3rd -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (1/7/2018 12:19:27 AM)

Tell you that I am a HUGE FAN of Star Wars and I have little desire to see the 3rd of this trilogy after my intense disappointment with Last Jedi. I even saw it a 2nd time HOPING I would feel better. Not really...



etsadler -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (1/7/2018 3:05:13 AM)

Return of the Jedi was released in 1983 and grossed a total of $475MM world wide. Adjusted to 2017 dollars that is ~$1.18B

The Force Awakens was released in 2015 and grossed a total of $2.068B, adjusted for inflation $2.15B. It was, IMHO, the most anticipated movie in the history of cinema.

Rogue One was released in 2016 and grossed $1.056B, adjusted for inflation $1.08B.

The Last Jedi has, so far, grossed $1.129B.

Adjusting for inflation North American ticket sales ($) are 20% higher now than in 1983, while number of tickets sold is up about 10% over the same period.

My conclusion is that, within a reasonable variance, Rogue One and The Last Jedi are just as popular (and financially rewarding for the studio) as Return of the Jedi. The Force Awakens is such an anomaly that no comparisons are valid. Disney is just fine. The three movies cost ~$700MM to produce and have grossed ~$4.25B. Not to mention that Disney paid for Lucasfilm in stock, which is essentially free. Disney is just fine.



etsadler -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (1/7/2018 3:58:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Right. The anticipation led to a massive opening. But the movie has since underperformed greatly, with viewership falling in ways unheard of for a Star Wars movie. For this movie, that may not matter - the investment might've been covered. But what happens if there's an erosion in anticipation so that future openings don't cover the investment? That's what's intriguing. That's something that Disney has to be wondering about.


Return of the Jedi did the following adjusted for inflation domestic weekly box office:

Week 1: $131MM
Week 2: 70MM
Week 3: 50MM
Week 4: 50MM
Week 5: 50MM

Week 2 was 53% of week 1 and week 3 was 71% of week 2.

The Last Jedi:

Week 1: $297MM
Week 2: 168MM
Week 3: 84MM

Week 2 was 56% of week 1 (which was over 100% higher than Return)
Week 3 was 50% of Week 2 which is, yes a higher drop.

Through three weeks Return had an inflation adjusted domestic gross of $251MM and Last Jedi $549MM. Return's domestic box office is about $780MM inflation adjusted lifetime, and Last Jedi is already 77% of the way there after 3 weeks.

Certainly time will tell. But, I feel the results do not agree with the statement that "viewership falling in ways unheard...".



USSAmerica -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (1/7/2018 3:31:56 PM)

I went to see The Last Jedi on the "preview" opening night and absolutely loved it. I wanted to let the thrill and excitement wear off a bit before trying to compare it to the other Star Wars movies. We went back and saw it again yesterday in IMAX 3D and loved it just as much.

As a lifelong Star Wars fan, I have to say The Last Jedi is my very favorite movie of the bunch! [8D]



John 3rd -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (1/8/2018 4:02:15 AM)

Why? How? Serious questions. I feel so jaded that I cannot fathom the direction taken by the film. Would love to hear the other side of the coin.



Apollo11 -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (1/8/2018 7:01:39 AM)

Hi all,

I watched it with my wife on 28th December and we both loved it (we are old fans - I still remember those long queues in the summer of 1977 when I waited for the tickets for the first movie)...


Leo "Apollo11"



Jorge_Stanbury -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (1/8/2018 2:37:14 PM)

In the end I was "forced" to watch it [;)] I mean some friends wanted to see it and we went to those movie theaters that serve beer, so it was not that bad an idea,
anyway, I didn't like the movie at all, same repetitive ideas, poor laughable bad guys, serious holes in the universe's canon, too many irrelevant sub plots, cartoonish super hero like characters and obvious leftist/ SJW political agendas.

And I don't think it is possible to compare blockbuster dollar numbers of today against old classics even corrected to inflation; it is a growing industry, numbers are much better now than they used to be. That said, non production expenses (marketing, advertisement, buying critics, etc) are ten fold higher these days than they used to be. Disney is definitively going to make a lot of money with SWs








John 3rd -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (1/8/2018 3:52:48 PM)

More theatre screens are the big factor on not being able to correlate the box office. Check the numbers of when ROTJ was released compared to TLJ. I'll wager the number is easily double that of the 80s if not triple...



etsadler -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (1/8/2018 10:15:24 PM)

Yes, The Last Jedi has a max theaters of ~2.5x that of Return of the Jedi. I agree that more theaters certainly makes it possible to have larger opening numbers, but its no guarantee. People still have to decide to go and then do so.

But the population of the USA is 40% greater now, yet per my earlier numbers only 10% more tickets sold and 20% more total ticket revenue. So people are, on average, not going to the cinema as much as they did, yet the new movies are still just as high grossing or higher. I don't see how you can see those numbers and conclude anything except that Star Wars is even more popular now than in the past. Like the new movies or not, a lot of people are seeing them and they make a lot of money.



Kull -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (1/8/2018 10:39:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury
....and obvious leftist/ SJW political agendas.


This situation is so bad and permeates so many modern movies that I just wait until they are available on cable. That way if it's too bad (as was the case with Rogue One), I can turn it off and do something else. It would be nice if there was an independent movie ratings system which evaluates the propaganda level.



etsadler -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (1/9/2018 1:35:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury
....and obvious leftist/ SJW political agendas.


This situation is so bad and permeates so many modern movies that I just wait until they are available on cable. That way if it's too bad (as was the case with Rogue One), I can turn it off and do something else. It would be nice if there was an independent movie ratings system which evaluates the propaganda level.



I suppose if you try hard enough you can find political commentary in "Pop Goes the Weasel"and "Hickory Dickory Dock". But you are going to have to help me with finding political commentary in Rogue One. Unless the narrative of a group seeking the freedom to rule themselves and fighting against the most powerful military in existence (Does "When in the course of human events..." sound at all familiar?) has now become a leftist agenda.



Prydwen -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (1/9/2018 3:38:30 AM)

I have seen The Last Jedi twice now. Once opening weekend and again about a week ago. After the first viewing I needed to take time to process it because a lot happens in this movie but my initial impression was favorable.

After the second viewing and, having read reviews/discussions, I really enjoyed it. Someone, I think John, asked how you could like and enjoy it and I'll try to answer that question. I think people went in with expectations and theories and things in their heads that they wanted to see happen. I went in with a blank slate. I intentionally put myself in the mindset of just experiencing the movie for what it is without any preconceived notions of what it ought to be. That helped me to enjoy the movie more than someone who goes in thinking Star Wars is this or that and has to fit into a certain box.

My favorite scene was the Luke and Kylo Ren showdown. Visually it was impressive, kind of like the first time seeing the Matrix. The part that made it so powerful to me was the last line when Luke says, "Amazing. Every word of what you just said is wrong. The Rebellion is reborn today. The war is just beginning. And I will not be the last Jedi." What made it so powerful was all the arc that he had to go through from broken and disgusted with himself and the Jedi order itself to remembering who he is and realizing the power of a legend. He does exactly what he asked Rey if she wanted him to do. He went out, "one man with a laser sword," and stood up to the entire First Order. A legend was born and hope is reignited.

I loved that scene! Worth the price of admission all by itself.

Joe



MakeeLearn -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (1/9/2018 4:04:11 PM)


Great plot twist...

[image]local://upfiles/55056/5596FA74FA7F4183AB6A46D8CBFDE907.jpg[/image]



spence -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (1/9/2018 5:36:17 PM)

Got leftist. What does SJW mean?



BillBrown -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (1/9/2018 6:44:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

Got leftist. What does SJW mean?


Social Justice Warrior



Canoerebel -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (1/9/2018 7:06:41 PM)

In recent years, politics has seriously encroached upon entertainments including sports, movies, television, and live performances. Those who agree with the opinions expressed usually don't mind the encroachments and tend to think it's just a reflection of mainstream thought. To those who disagree, it's highly annoying.

We're very fortunate that our Forum manages to nearly always avoid politics by self-policing. Thank goodness. Good people here.



Zorch -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (1/9/2018 8:12:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

In recent years, politics has seriously encroached upon entertainments including sports, movies, television, and live performances. Those who agree with the opinions expressed usually don't mind the encroachments and tend to think it's just a reflection of mainstream thought. To those who disagree, it's highly annoying.

We're very fortunate that our Forum manages to nearly always avoid politics by self-policing. Thank goodness. Good people here.

I agree, except for the phrase, "in recent years".



Chickenboy -> RE: OT: The Last Jedi (1/28/2018 10:55:17 PM)

We had some Disney Rewards money left from being former account holders of a Disney Visa card for years. I spent the last $30 we had for e-movie vouchers that gave us 'free' tickets to the movie. Just saw it with wife and son today.

It was difficult to find a theater nearby that was showing it. Only 6 weeks after release and it's already rapidly fading from theaters. After seeing the movie, I kind of understand why.

I'd rate the movie a 3 on a scale of 1-10, with 1 being the worst and 10 the best. Moments of promise with a bunch of non-sequitur nonsense standing in the way of an interesting premise.

I liked the refocusing on 'the force' and the balance between the light and dark sides of the force. That exploration was unique and well done and walked back the episode I mumbo jumbo about mitichloridians being the ultimate purveyor of force powers. The 'connection' between Rey and Kylo Ren was well done as well and the interplay between them was solid. I liked Skywalker's character conflict and understood its relevance to the ultimate balanced struggle between light and dark / good and evil. His showdown with Kylo Ren was well done too.

The special effects were marvelous, but there isn't a chasm between Star Wars special effects and other movies like there once was.

Alas, the wooden and stilted character development so typical with Lucas' pictures in general was still, unfortunately, present. Meaningful dialogue that wasn't insipid or brazen posturing was short.

I didn't like most of the rest of the movie. Too many unnecessary plot threads that didn't need to exist. Poor tactical and strategic leadership within the rebellion and the First Order. Contrived plot lines about poor upbringings yielding disgust for entitled bourgeois lifestyles-and the aforementioned and totally unnecessary political subtext and commentary about wealth. Inclusion of goofy species for the sheer purpose of plush toy sales. Unremitting noise and special effects with no discernible purpose. Limited advancement of the story arch beyond liquidation of key characters. I could go on and on.

Not very good. I won't see it again-I don't need to. Unless I have some more Disney e-vouchers (which I won't), I am unlikely to see the next one in the theaters.



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