Saper (Axis) vs Tyrone (Soviet). (no Saper) (Full Version)

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tyronec -> Saper (Axis) vs Tyrone (Soviet). (no Saper) (1/26/2018 4:25:59 PM)

Campaign game (standard campaign).
Random weather, Mild blizzard, Soviet +1, No paradrops, restricted amphip.
Have not played Soviet much so am expecting a hard time against an experienced player.

My strategy for the first few turns of Summer is to avoid having too many units pocketed. So will retreat as far as I think it necessary every turn to preserve the army while putting up whatever road blocks I can. Am expecting to get it wrong some of the time.
Will try and be more aggressive with the VVS and see if I can do any damage.
Will move all the SUs up the chain and then from T4 pull them back to the armies.

Saper is more experienced than me, after playing one game under the present patch I think there is a slight bias towards Soviet so will see how that balances out.

T01.
Solid opening by Saper, all pockets secure and 5k aircraft kills.

North. Rail up several units to Pskov and throw out a Security/Airborne screen. Zhukov moved to 27th Army. All available aircraft are flown to NW air command, the rest to the reserve.
Centre. Get a few units to the land bridge.
South. Retreat as fast as possible. Do the Hungarian invasion. Ship a few units in to Odessa.
As many forts and SAD bases as possible disbanded, plus a couple of corps HQs.



[image]local://upfiles/52296/917F4DE7FCB74FF3824C092ED2A7C473.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: Saper (Axis) vs Tyrone (Soviet). (1/26/2018 4:29:21 PM)

+1 subscribed

quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec
Do the Hungarian invasion.


Do you know what is the trigger for the Hungarian armies to unfreeze?



tyronec -> RE: Saper (Axis) vs Tyrone (Soviet). (1/26/2018 5:47:57 PM)

quote:

Do you know what is the trigger for the Hungarian armies to unfreeze?

Didn't know there was one, what is it ?
I never understand why that security unit unfreezes, last game I played it didn't despite the Ruskies marching past it.



Telemecus -> RE: Saper (Axis) vs Tyrone (Soviet). (1/26/2018 5:51:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec

quote:

Do you know what is the trigger for the Hungarian armies to unfreeze?

Didn't know there was one, what is it ?
I never understand why that security unit unfreezes, last game I played it didn't despite the Ruskies marching past it.

Well according to the manual if you take a Hungarian town all the Hungarian (and Rumanian) armies unfreeze - which is a big benefit. But we know that is not true. I have made one example where they did after taking four towns. So the question is what is the trigger for Hungarian (and Rumanian) armies to unfreeze if it is not as the manual says taking one town. The Hungarian invasion is great - but you really do not want to unfreeze three Hungarian armies at the start of 1941. I have posted asking about it numerous times - no answer from staff or others.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Saper (Axis) vs Tyrone (Soviet). (1/26/2018 5:56:58 PM)

You are in for a challenging game Tyronec, good luck to you Sir.

(I'm assuming this is the Sapper from old, he is Russian if I remember correctly)



STEF78 -> RE: Saper (Axis) vs Tyrone (Soviet). (1/26/2018 7:04:23 PM)

I will follow this AAR!

Sapper222 is one of the best WITE player. From my point of view, only Michael T is far above.

If I remind well he was able to imagine very agressive and new tactics (taking Kiev on turn 2 or rushing though VK)

Good luck!



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Saper (Axis) vs Tyrone (Soviet). (1/26/2018 7:10:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78

I will follow this AAR!

Sapper222 is one of the best WITE player. From my point of view, only Michael T is far above.

If I remind well he was able to imagine very agressive and new tactics (taking Kiev on turn 2 or rushing though VK)

Good luck!


Just a little bit different rule set now days though along with more experienced opponents.



tyronec -> T02 (1/29/2018 9:13:30 AM)

T02 After Axis move.

NWest. Just about all my screening units have been routed out of the way, however no attack across the river. They have crossed the river onto a swamp hex further south.
Will get my defences organised and do some bombing with the VVS.

West. One airborne unit pocketed, probably lost.
Will build up my defences on the land bridge and deploy the about half the VVS to Western Front. Am concerned about the rough terrain north of Vitebsk and need to get some more troops in there.
About 20 units left in the T1 pocket.

SWest. One of the pockets has been eliminated but the other two mostly left alone. No sign of an FBD heading towards Kiev so looks like two of them will be starting from Romania.
Will pull everything back to the Dnepr.

Southern. Have had 16 units pocketed East of Romania. Would have been but a tank division put up a sterling defence (about 40 tanks for 80). Can get some of them out to the south. Am thinking to sacrifice an infantry division to isolate the lead panzer divisions and escape with as many of the others as possible though they will likely be repocketed next turn. Expect there are another stack of armoured divisions ready to detrain on the border.
Will leave some units to garrison Odessa and pull the rest back to the Dnepr.
For the moment will only deploy some recon and partisan supply aircraft to the south, plus a few biplanes to protect against unescorted bombers.

Too early to say where the main attacks are going to fall, anywhere between Pskov and Mogilev in the north and possibly a push towards D'town in the south.


[image]local://upfiles/52296/5D97396164864DFA8FB639353A07D6A3.jpg[/image]



tyronec -> RE: T02 (1/29/2018 9:14:26 AM)

T02 End
NWest. Airbase bombing yields 21 fighters. Otherwise just build up the defences.
West. Fill up the airbases. Have about 1400 fighters with NW and 1100 with West.
SWest. Take up defences on the Dnepr.
Southern. Break out of the pocket and isolate 3 Panzer Divs, and restrict supply to a few more.
Otherwise retreat to Odessa and the Dnepr, would like to hold both for another two turns.


[image]local://upfiles/52296/C7AE1858888D42EB8393E68C30B6B9F3.jpg[/image]



tyronec -> T03 (1/29/2018 6:30:14 PM)

T03 After recon.

NWest. Just one attack that shatters an security unit. My fighters fail to intercept his air supply.
West. A couple of hexes taken at the landbridge. Airbourne unit cut off again but I can relieve it.
SWest. Moved closer to the Dnepr at Chergassy but not up to the river.
Southern. Repocketed a couple of units that were escaping, so I will lose 10 units here.

Air war. Some ground bombing, 44 including 19 fighters for 277.

NWest will just sit and be patient.
Western. There are infantry up to the landbridge so will pull back.
SWest. No threat to Kiev yet.
Southern. Axis FBDs are not heading towards Odessa so will start to evacuate units. My main concern is to the southern Dnepr where they could be looking at crossing anywhere below Chergassy. Will aim to get all the river line defended as well as possible.


[image]local://upfiles/52296/2DA34645DE504487B1297E0CE983A663.jpg[/image]



tyronec -> RE: T03 (1/29/2018 6:31:10 PM)

T03.

Airbase bombing yields 51 fighters for 233 LBs.
Ground support switched off now as all the Axis fighters are up to the front.

Northern. Move a couple of divisions up to the river on the map edge.
NWest. Pull back south of Pskov.
Western. Back to the next line of woods. Air force is somewhat depleted so could get attacked.
Orel. Pull back to the next river.
SWest. Hold the Dnepr line.
Southern. Get 4 units out of Odessa. Defend the Dnepr - am not at all sure if I have enough units to hold the river line next turn, some panzers should still have a lot of fuel.


[image]local://upfiles/52296/D302863334ED46C1ADF6B53E37022AC1.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: T03 (1/29/2018 7:09:09 PM)

Defense in depth in the North? I see mostly single line.



tyronec -> RE: T03 (1/29/2018 8:57:38 PM)

quote:

Defense in depth in the North? I see mostly single line.

_____________________________

13

I have to acknowledge copyright here, I did read the listing on defending West of Pskov and have adopted some of the moves. However my plan was never to replicate the defence, the grand strategy is a little different.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: T03 (1/29/2018 9:46:00 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec

quote:

Defense in depth in the North? I see mostly single line.

_____________________________

13

I have to acknowledge copyright here, I did read the listing on defending West of Pskov and have adopted some of the moves. However my plan was never to replicate the defence, the grand strategy is a little different.


Huh? I don't care if you follow or not follow what I have written, there is no copyright on anything. It just looks to me that the minute he breaks through one line he is off to the races. Of course you are a very capable person and I'm sure you have a plan.



SparkleyTits -> RE: T03 (1/30/2018 1:23:17 AM)

If he has done HQBU Pskov could have the entire defence dislodged at the hinge but if not that will be a very safe stop gap to stall safely for refinforcements a turn

Hopefully those panzers W of Velkie are his intention and not a bluff but with him moving over the river & into the swamp I'd feel fairly confident to take a calculated risk to defend the same way you have

Only problem I see with your placement, you are at risk of losing dominance over the 2 swamp hexes near Pskov pretty quickly which would be a nasty hit to any longterm defence



timmyab -> RE: Saper (Axis) vs Tyrone (Soviet). (1/30/2018 9:48:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78
Sapper222 is one of the best WITE player.

Looking at the opening I would say this isn't the same guy. Unless he's gone rusty.



tyronec -> RE: Saper (Axis) vs Tyrone (Soviet). (1/30/2018 10:32:41 AM)

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78
Sapper222 is one of the best WITE player.

Looking at the opening I would say this isn't the same guy. Unless he's gone rusty.

That is a bit blunt. He is the same Saper2229 who was playing years ago, there are still some AARs up.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: Saper (Axis) vs Tyrone (Soviet). (1/30/2018 1:43:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tyronec

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78
Sapper222 is one of the best WITE player.

Looking at the opening I would say this isn't the same guy. Unless he's gone rusty.

That is a bit blunt. He is the same Saper2229 who was playing years ago, there are still some AARs up.


This is the old Sapper :). Plus the signature says Russia too, a tell tell sign. But I can say from watching you play over the last few month Tyronec that Saper will have his hands full. You are a really good player and this game should be down right cut throat.



tyronec -> T4 (1/31/2018 9:48:21 AM)

T04 after recon.

NWest. PG4 have taken Velike Luki, Pskov is being ignored.
Western.No combats, three stacks of panzers move up to Smolensk.
SWest. Looks like a hasty attack across the Dnepr at Kremenchug but no crossing.
Southern. Still some way from the Dnepr. Krivoi Rog not garrisoned and I have a 42 man unit.

Air war. Some air base bombing and genera ground attack, Soviets lose 273 for 105. NWest did much better, Western had less fighters and took some heavy losses for no return.

Thoughts for the turn.
Will continue night bombing to attrition the 110s.

Southern end of NWest can fall back a couple of hexes into the swamp.
In front of Moscow will pull back to the next line of rough terrain, Time to start working on entrenchments further back.
SWest. Will try and hold the river line for another turn. Don’t think many of the panzers will be that well fuelled up as they are 30 odd hexes from the railhead. Will bring up as many reinforcements to the Kremenchug area as possible.
Southern. Still holding the river line. Not sure what to do about Odessa, if I leave a strong garrison Axis will need to use at least a corps to reduce it but can possibly manage to do so with their reinforcements coming up and units reducing pockets at present.


[image]local://upfiles/52296/C24D587417404FB6862C762262D3E983.jpg[/image]



tyronec -> RE: T4 (1/31/2018 9:49:21 AM)

T04 End.

Airbase bombing scores 66 for 212. Western air command left with 1100 fighters.
Otherwise continue the retreat as planned.
In two turns the Axis FBD will get up to Pskov so am expecting the AGN infantry to move up and start pushing me back soon.
9 divisions left around Odessa, only had the amphib capacity to ship two out..
Have massed a lot of troops behind Kremenchug so hopefully the expected breakout will not expand too far. Have left other areas of the river line very weak and will be interesting to see where they cross.
Upgrade six army leaders. Have been waiting for the auto-disband of corps to save a few APs.


[image]local://upfiles/52296/48E82876DD354F978558FB1CF7BD5471.jpg[/image]



tyronec -> T05. (2/1/2018 10:30:39 AM)

Am bring this AAR up to date, Saper has agreed not to look at it.

T05 After recon.

NWest. Still no attack on Pskov. The Axis FBD is just past Balvi so no longer heading towards Leningrad.
Western. Have been pushed back 3 hexes in the north by PG4 and 2 hexes in the south by PG3.
SWest. Kiev has fallen and there should be enough infantry up to cross the Dnepr next turn.
Southern. Kremenchug falls to the third attack. No panzer divisions were used and they are within range to do an HQB.
The remnants of the L'Vov pocket are beginning to surrender without being attacked.
50 Corps disbanded this turn, another 20 or so to go.

Air war. 123 (mostly bombers) for 294 (all fighters).

Thoughts for the turn.
Will continue night bombing.
Western can fall back just enough to maintain a continuous line, most of my reinforcements need to go here.
On the Dnepr will fall back, am too concerned about a breakout at Kremenchug linking up with a river crossing at Kiev.


[image]local://upfiles/52296/9EFC41DAE44A4DF2A221722FCA8EC526.jpg[/image]



tyronec -> RE: T05. (2/1/2018 10:32:04 AM)

T05 End.

Some heavy air combats, 133 (mostly fighters) for 594 (mostly LBs). Am happy to use my LBs as they are likely going to be disbanded when the trucks are needed. Still 2k in the pool.
Otherwise just retreat along the line and try to get as many units as possible allocated to armies.
Pull another couple of units out of Odessa.

If this were under the previous patch I think Axis could probably do me some serious damage next move, just depends if they have done a couple of HQBs at the danger areas. Am also missing 4 Armoured divisions, were last seen AGS two turns ago.


[image]local://upfiles/52296/5863F848A19041F583CCEC323FED7B92.jpg[/image]



tyronec -> T06 (2/1/2018 10:33:10 AM)

T06 after recon.

Northern. Are holding the river line. Will see if the Finns assault next turn.
NWest. The FBD has started heading SW, so am guessing Axis are not going to make a push for Leningrad either through Pskov or north of lake Peipus.
Western. PG4 continues to push towards Rzhev. PG3 towards Vyazma. Just about all the armoured divisions have been used in attacks.
SWest and Southern. No attacks, the infantry move up to my front line.

No bombing or ground support this turn, the VVS fighters are doing their job.

Thoughts for the turn.
Will begin to thin out the defences around Pskov and move them East. Need a couple more units on the Narva but otherwise will look to shift NWest front towards defending Moscow. I don't think Leningrad is under serious threat unless Axis begin pushing north next turn.
In front of Moscow will pull back one hex, terrain permitting. Will bring as many reinforcing divisions as possible up to start building entrenchments.
In the south will fall back to the next river line to create a two hex gap.
Just five units left from the T1 pockets.


[image]local://upfiles/52296/2D00AD1FE9D74590A89F8A2EC65A35E3.jpg[/image]



tyronec -> RE: T06 (2/1/2018 10:34:06 AM)

T06.

Airbase bombing scores 76 fighters for 470 LBs.
Am holding most of the line in the centre will see if Axis can pocket anything. Between Bryansk and Gomel I have almost no troops so they could just advance through there if they have the fuel.
SWestern front is also very weak in the north if they switch direction , some of the AGS panzers should have good fuel and there are a few that I have not spotted.


[image]local://upfiles/52296/FC007382A5AA45BE85370DF4986AF039.jpg[/image]



tyronec -> T07 (2/1/2018 10:35:20 AM)

T07 after recon.

The Finns have stopped at the river in the north and are not attacking.
Northern. Have had a unit trapped west of the Narva, looks like a couple of infantry divisions there. Will have to make a solid defensive line.
In front of Pskov there are what looks like about three infantry divisions.
Western. The three panzer armies have pushed forwards, trapping six divisions. Even with the +1 can see no chance of relieving them so will have to fall back.
SWest. Axis infantry follow up the retreat.
Southern. Axis advanced 4 hexes of attacks just with armour divisions, six units pocketed. Again there is no chance to relieve them.

Air war. 64 assorted for 160 fighters. No airbase bombing, Axis did get some ground support working for AGC.

Thoughts for the move.
Not a good move for me in front of Moscow. Will continue to fall back and bring up what reinforcements are available.
In the south will fall back again, my main concern is to stop a break out by a panzer spearhead so for the moment although I have lost 6 divisions the situation is under control.


[image]local://upfiles/52296/EDE73C2B331E46C79A88C48E18147BEE.jpg[/image]



tyronec -> T07 (2/1/2018 10:38:09 AM)

T07.
Situation at the end of the turn.


[image]local://upfiles/52296/E62FF4151AEF4696A7EDD32394E94949.jpg[/image]



tyronec -> T08 (2/1/2018 10:39:14 AM)

T08 after recon
North have been pushed back a hex at the Narva. Need to send another unit here. Talinn falls.
NWest. A couple of units pushed back but not followed up.
Western. Pushed back about 2 hexes.
Reserve. Pushed back a hex in the north and three in the south.
SWest & Southern Just followed up.

Air war. 85 for 176 fighters.

Thoughts for the turn.
No new pockets this turn ! Axis armour in front of Moscow is in three pods with the Southern one threatening a breakout.
Will to continue to garrison around Pskov with armour units and move the infantry further East.
In the centre will fall back a hex.
In the south will continue the retreat. Am just covering my cities enough to get the industry out so far.
Will ship a couple of cavalry units in to Odessa and see how many units have been left as a covering force.



[image]local://upfiles/52296/AF7B18540CE84B96B92BCAE51E0BA9D9.jpg[/image]



tyronec -> RE: T08 (2/1/2018 10:40:23 AM)

T08 end
Moscow area - am trying to hold some ground in the North, Very thin south of Kaluga but so far his tactics have been to push through the front line rather than go around it.

Air war. Heavy this turn, 84 fighters for 590 bombers. Am down to about 1600 LBs in the pool and would take about 1000 of those to fill up my active units. However have about 1000 modern fighters in the pool and started building new units this turn. Moving some of the air bases around so all the Fronts around Moscow will have some fighter cover.


[image]local://upfiles/52296/65043C59442B48CB9884E16B4CB1A889.jpg[/image]



tyronec -> T09 (2/1/2018 10:42:12 AM)

T09 after recon.
North & NWest. A few attacks and a few hexes lost, some losses and a few wins.
Western. Pushed back another couple of rows.
Reserve. Axis have made a strong advance. First they bombed the Reserve airbases, then broke through the front line and captured Tula, overrunning my airbases in the process and getting about 100 fighters on the ground.
SWest. Infantry just advance up to my line.
Southern. Another breakthrough here, capturing Gorlovka and cutting the rail line from Stalino.

Air war. 96 for 322 fighters.

Thoughts on the turn. The good news is have had no units pocketed and have not lost too much ground in front of Moscow. The bad news is my front has been broken in two places and some 60 industry lost. Have no experience beyond mid '42 for Soviets but think I may be OK as long as I do not lose much more. Credit to Saper, he has used a change in tactics (my guess is there were a couple of HQBs used) and the hardest opponent is one who does the unpredictable.
Looking at the spearheads I don’t think I can do any damage to either of them so will just cut them off from supplies and continue the retreat.


[image]local://upfiles/52296/A2AD4A62B21E417C9E8D22F539484847.jpg[/image]



SparkleyTits -> RE: T09 (2/1/2018 3:04:23 PM)

Nice continued fighter kills you are getting how many of them single seat Germans bud?

How are your ground losses looking?

Shame about the industry those are unfortunate losses



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