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Reknoy -> (5/30/2003 7:28:15 PM)
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Agree with what Tim and Pfog wrote.
Also agree that playtesters MUST put stress on these types of paradigms (the French/British sparring in the early stages of the game).
That's the key. As France, try like mad to invade Britain.
Turning for a moment on the France/Britain conundrum, I want to share at least some thoughts and one experience over the whole matter.
In answer to Tim's question -- yes, I have seen nearly every type of setup for French fleets (with or without negotiated Spanish support at the outset). Average ship counts, unbalanced counts, all in one port, etc.
One thing that some of the groups I played with did not originally account for, however, was that the British (in fact, any blockading fleet) had to win the blockade box interception battle in order to keep the French in. That realization, of course, changed their tactics even further.
More often than not, however, the French player would lose political points and ships and Britain would grow thinner (and thus subject to attack from Spain/Russia).
So, in more seasoned groups, it boiled down to strategies that were wholly apart from the "norm" (like gathering French fleets in the Med and fleeing to the Dardanelles -- for all sorts of fun purposes).
We still had players that pushed the envelope.
One such French player turned a lot of his attention to invading Britain.
He eventually succeeded (with the help of Spain) in landing on England. If you've tried it, you usually think you've won the war once you've landed.
Anyway, London was defended for a few months (after all, France had to have some defense against the Prussian/Austria). If you keep all the British troops at home, you would be amazed at how well they hold out and how England is positioned (with cities in the north that can raise corps to guard Edinburgh) to defend itself once it's been attacked.
All the while Austria, Prussia and Russia sat by.
The British player did not however (as most do) surrender. He kept holding out and won one land combat over London that was spectacular. That morale and the fact that there were not a ton (only 25) French in the battle saved his behind. But again, that goes with invading Britain mostly.
Ultimately France had a decent force in England. London was under French control and all of England was close to falling.
Then the other allies came.
With Ireland still open, Britain clung to life. Britain was not helpless on the seas and once the French made their fateful landing there was a lot of French blood on the sea. (Spanish, too, for that matter).
France was ill prepared for a defense of the homeland and was severely beaten. Britain gained so many PPs from the numerous battles with Nelson that he was deep in the Dominant Zone.
Granted there are extremes at work here --- but the whole notion that the game is over if France gets to land the I corps in England is incorrect, imo.
How many times does France surrender in the "First War" (1805-1806)? Most of the time if the allies are any good.
When France devotes more attention to Britain, and unless the British player is weak in the knees, France has always surrendered and always gets taken out of England (in my experience).
By the way, I was once the British player with weak knees. In my second game ever I was Britain (bad idea). I declared war on Denmark and Sweden in the same month!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Remember -- second game!! :)
I'm not sure I even need to go into the rest. I surrendered.
The game went awry after that. France had his come-uppance, but it wasn't the same.
Cheers,
Reknoy
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