RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (Full Version)

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Ktonos -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/28/2018 10:39:45 PM)

Probably a Dutch or Belgian unit out of sight?

I am really shocked Sugar left France undefended. So much shocked that I initially believed this is a trap and he let you commit to destroy as many possible UK units. I guess he didn't expect a '43 Overlord?



room -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/28/2018 11:05:59 PM)

I'd say it s more a consequence of the early game and he needed all he got in the east.

What were the losses ratio on your turn KZ?

losses shall decrease as losses eroded dammage potential but even the SU cannot take such a beating too many turns in a row.



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/28/2018 11:20:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ktonos

Probably a Dutch or Belgian unit out of sight?

I am really shocked Sugar left France undefended. So much shocked that I initially believed this is a trap and he let you commit to destroy as many possible UK units. I guess he didn't expect a '43 Overlord?


I don't think he's going to challenge the western powers until the Russian army be rendered a non-entity or if they get too close to Berlin or Italy.



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/28/2018 11:24:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: room

I'd say it s more a consequence of the early game and he needed all he got in the east.

What were the losses ratio on your turn KZ?

losses shall decrease as losses eroded dammage potential but even the SU cannot take such a beating too many turns in a row.


I my turn I take pot shots with infantry and axis minors and consolidate my lines. With 2 tech behind, I can't go on the offence.



Sugar -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/29/2018 12:36:07 AM)

I'm a bit late with my deployments in the West, but I don't think a defence is possible anyway, especially aginst 28 aircraft of the W-Allies. Makes no sense to leave weak units as sparring dummies to train the enemy imho.

One of the reasons for the delay was some bad luck regarding the conquer of Casablanca. I knew of the can. corps ready to occupy the town and placed the mar. bomber in southern France to destroy it in the turn of the DoW, but the weather turned bad and I didn't want to wait any longer in early sept. 42. Took another 7 turns to reach the goal.

Cutting the railway to Voronesh didn't work for unknown reason, KZ. Also there was no blocking unit in the Netherlands, both may be bugs.

The previous turn I destroyed all 4 of the russian heavy tanks and 12 units alltogether, this turn another 8 units iirc, leaving just 2 surviving tanks to attack with. North of Moskau Vologda is occupied to cut off the railway, also Borisoglebsk and Astara (Caucasus); Veshniye Baskunchak east of Stalingrad is reduced by a german strat. bomber to 0, hopefully leaving the russian main front in less favorable supply. German and italian income is above 1500 MPPs combined.



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/29/2018 12:37:10 AM)

Germany unveils strat bombers. Knocking that city behind stalingrad back to 1.

This is part of the reason I wanted to keep the fight so far from that area, getting the supply under 5 means the whole of the Caucasus dropped to 5. That's a lot of money I won't be getting. Under the fury of tech 5 tanks, the USSR has no choice but the curl into a ball. USSR is bleeding units but the allies still have the unit count edge for now...

Western allies get to Lille and are closing in Bordeaux.

Spain at 58%. (it dropped because of Paris was liberated)



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/29/2018 12:41:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sugar

Cutting the railway to Voronesh didn't work for unknown reason, KZ. Also there was no blocking unit in the Netherlands, both may be bugs.



Dang it! That was a very expensive way to find out. [:D]



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/29/2018 3:56:55 AM)

Russians crumple like paper. Allies liberate belgium. The trapped American army is freed when one of the port is liberated and can transport out.

[image]http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1743/42423096631_ce6831082f_b.jpg[/image]



Titan -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/29/2018 6:36:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ktonos

I've tried that assuming it would bring USSR closer to the Allies but to no avail. Do I miss something? Or did u do it to save the Northern Front units during Barbarossa?


What is the benefit of not taking out the Baltics? Brings Germany closer to Leningrad?



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/29/2018 11:51:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Titan


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ktonos

I've tried that assuming it would bring USSR closer to the Allies but to no avail. Do I miss something? Or did u do it to save the Northern Front units during Barbarossa?


What is the benefit of not taking out the Baltics? Brings Germany closer to Leningrad?



quote:

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ktonos

I've tried that assuming it would bring USSR closer to the Allies but to no avail. Do I miss something? Or did u do it to save the Northern Front units during Barbarossa?


Yeah... had I went for them my units would be right in his grill since he took Lithuania. While not entirely safe by air... that means he has to save some bomber for barbarossa opening if he wants to destroy them (and not be all in NA let's say...)




Taxman66 -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/29/2018 12:11:54 PM)

Sometimes there is an extra mp for crossings.

Liberated French MPP is only good for diplo and maybe a Garr or two to clean up taking towns in the south and west away from the front. They'll get a free HQ too, only useful for chaining supply to land units though.

It's tempting to not liberate Paris for the extra UK and/or US mpp; but eventually you want the towns/cities higher values for supply.



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/29/2018 12:17:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

Sometimes there is an extra mp for crossings.

Liberated French MPP is only good for diplo and maybe a Garr or two to clean up taking towns in the south and west away from the front. They'll get a free HQ too, only useful for chaining supply to land units though.

It's tempting to not liberate Paris for the extra UK and/or US mpp; but eventually you want the towns/cities higher values for supply.


I'll soon be able to check with a unit with more movement point to see if I can get there by land.

Speaking of Paris supply, I'm looking for when SIPRES will finish his next counter set because with the default set I confused a US strat bomber for a tac bomber and bombed Paris supply just before I took it [:D].



room -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/29/2018 1:55:43 PM)

Well France might revuild its tank for cheap ( if it was not destroyed off supply and maybe an army or 2. They would be out thec for sure but can still fight corps/GAR going towards Italy



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/29/2018 3:15:31 PM)

The importance of Spying & Intel

The standard play is to have the UK and Germany be the 'Spying & Intel' lead for their respective side. The thinking is since only the highest tech level matter in the research and breakthrough calculation, any additional tech by co-belligerent is waste. This is a mistake, because surrendering the intel lead even for just for a couple of turns can send ripples that vastly overshadow the meager 150mpp to invest in it.

If a side invest with all its majors while the others rely on just one, odds are that the side that invested more will nab that first breakthrough further making the possibility the side that only rely on one country ever catch-up even more remote.

What does it look like in practice?

Had only Germany invested in spy & intel, the standard result would be that Russia would have been behind maybe only half a tech level by the end of '42 and about half the time combat would be take place at even tech. With both Germany-Italy spending, they got the S&I lead and by Dec '42 managed to increase their tech lead since the beginning of the game pushing it to 1,25 from the starting 1 level advantage.



Taxman66 -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/29/2018 4:03:12 PM)

I'm not sure the math follows your logic.

Germany and the UK start ahead of the game with a chit already invested.
Everyone else has to wait before they have enough saved up to invest. That 'paltry' 150 is damn painful early. Are you suggesting Russia buy S&I before Infantry Weapons, before Advanced Air, before Advaced Armor 2? The US can invest in that before Industry without too much pain and Italy can as well with a bit more pain... but if Russia falls 2 levels behind on tanks or fighters it's a death sentence. Learned that from you.

Remeber not every Russia is going to have bonus early mpp from UK/France Maximum Diplo strategy.



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/29/2018 4:15:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Taxman66

I'm not sure the math follows your logic.

Germany and the UK start ahead of the game with a chit already invested.
Everyone else has to wait before they have enough saved up to invest. That 'paltry' 150 is damn painful early. Are you suggesting Russia buy S&I before Infantry Weapons, before Advanced Air, before Advaced Armor 2? The US can invest in that before Industry without too much pain and Italy can as well with a bit more pain... but if Russia falls 2 levels behind on tanks or fighters it's a death sentence. Learned that from you.

Remeber not every Russia is going to have bonus early mpp from UK/France Maximum Diplo strategy.


For Russia they also start with tech invested in latter two in two of the 'inf-tank-adv aircraft' trinity, so baring a breakthrough you could go with your second tech buy.



room -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/29/2018 4:34:06 PM)

I feel it really dépends on your overall strategy and the circonstances of the game.

How much accumulated dammage was done on side since Sugar got tank 5 ?

He doesn't have too much time before he needs some defense in the West, I don't think he can afford the allies to penetrate in Germany.



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/29/2018 4:48:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: room

I feel it really dépends on your overall strategy and the circonstances of the game.

How much accumulated dammage was done on side since Sugar got tank 5 ?

He doesn't have too much time before he needs some defense in the West, I don't think he can afford the allies to penetrate in Germany.


A gazillion damage. Stalingrad is maybe 2-3 turn away from conquest now.

Even if the allies take both Germany's capital, all it needs to do to not surrender is to have 34 units within Germany's border. (3% per unit to prevent surrender )



room -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/29/2018 5:02:40 PM)

But the MPP and morale effect combined would be devastating. German town and mines are Worth a lot lot lot more than the little he will gain from russia (especially whith prod thec in).

Not to mention Italy who cannot afford to lose the morale important northern Italy.



Ktonos -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/29/2018 7:03:22 PM)

Maybe a dumb question, but could this reverse Schlieffen plan could mean that with smartly placed Para's and tac bombers possibly in Denmark, Axis aim to take Stalingrad and London in the same turn oblivious to allied advances on the continent??



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/29/2018 7:11:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ktonos

Maybe a dumb question, but could this reverse Schlieffen plan could mean that with smartly placed Para's and tac bombers possibly in Denmark, Axis aim to take Stalingrad and London in the same turn oblivious to allied advances on the continent??


+ Paris too! [;)]

Everything is possible, those Para at tech 5 certainly have some range on them. Plus London can always be amphibiously assaulted. With Stalingrad under immediate duress, I'm marching out of Paris to create some space between what would be my last two victory cities.



Ktonos -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/29/2018 8:28:45 PM)

Ah, forgot Paris is needed for auto victory. Nevermind, this would only be possible if it was only London remaining after Stalingrad



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/30/2018 12:13:13 PM)

Axis air and tanks showed up on the scene stalling the Allied advances.

Sugar is running a clinic on how to manage an air force. [:D]

Long range is king. More so than I previously though. The obvious benefit is of course being to hit other when they can hit you but there's more. Having long range means you can space out your Air HQs more and still support each other. And by being spaced out more you can make better use of defensive terrain because planes can be further from the HQ without starting to get supply from an other HQ.

The UK have the allied best fighter but shortest range which means to protect as many people as I can I have to keep all my HQ and their units close. However having HQ too close to each other mess with planes supply situation. This means I have to rely on Air donut formation (with the HQ in the middle) to insure that the planes will get its supply from the right HQ. This means I can't really make the best use of defensive terrain. A little forest hex can make a world of difference between being bombed to death and not getting a scratch.



room -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/30/2018 12:33:11 PM)

So where did Sugar chose to stop the allies?



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/30/2018 12:35:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: room

So where did Sugar chose to stop the allies?


Siegfried line + Black Forest

Those trees make for great airfields apparently [:'(]



Sugar -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/30/2018 1:19:54 PM)

You may choose the "manual"-option to fix the detachement of your best HQ to the fighters. The option "Auto-Assist" also prevents your units from changing their attachments, and additionally allows your HQ to take over another free unit in case one of the units has been destroyed.

Hell man, I didn't expect to be able to deal with 30 western aircraft.[X(]



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/30/2018 1:31:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sugar

You may choose the "manual"-option to fix the detachement of your best HQ to the fighters. The option "Auto-Assist" also prevents your units from changing their attachments, and additionally allows your HQ to take over another free unit in case one of the units has been destroyed.

Hell man, I didn't expect to be able to deal with 30 western aircraft.[X(]


Yeah I do auto-assist but when another HQ is too close then the plane miss out on supply (hard to explain but when planes get that purple hex shading).

I'll freely admit the air war is by far the weakest part of my game. Those german vet pilots made it look easy. [:D]



Sugar -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/30/2018 2:21:53 PM)

But you don`t get less supply than from the original HQ, the purple shows only it could get more from another.

[image][URL=http://www.bild.me][IMG]http://s1.bild.me/bilder/110417/6772939Mini-AAR_10.PNG[/IMG][/URL][/image]

[image][URL=http://www.bild.me][IMG]http://s1.bild.me/bilder/110417/1514615Mini-AAR_11.PNG[/IMG][/URL][/image]

[image][URL=http://www.bild.me][IMG]http://s1.bild.me/bilder/110417/7294966Mini-AAR_12.PNG[/IMG][/URL][/image]

[image][URL=http://www.bild.me][IMG]http://s1.bild.me/bilder/110417/6163430Mini-AAR_13.PNG[/IMG][/URL][/image]

W-Allies' aircraft are down to 23; 2 brit. + 1 can. tank(s) are also missing. The Axis regained air superiority in the West.



room -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/30/2018 2:35:17 PM)

What a bloodbath, you guys don't disapoint: fabulous game. thx



KorutZelva -> RE: Tourney game AAR: KZ (Allies) vs Sugar (Axis) (5/30/2018 2:38:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: room

What a bloodbath, you guys don't disapoint: fabulous game. thx


Glad you enjoy. [:)] I knew the game got away from me by the time my Russian tech 3 tank stared down the German tech 5 ones. But had I gave up then, then all that hardware built up over the course of 3 years wouldn't get a chance to make big explosions. [:D]

The new objective is to last until 1944! [;)]



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