RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (Full Version)

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MikeJ19 -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/9/2018 1:30:21 AM)

Larry,

You attention to detail is so very good. I like your idea of moving the units mopping up into the void.



larryfulkerson -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/9/2018 2:32:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeJ19
Larry,

Hey there Mike man. How's your game going? Thanks for posting....I like thread traffic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MikeJ19
You attention to detail is so very good. I like your idea of moving the units mopping up into the void.

I'm pretty sure that attention to detail is an advantage for this game. I used to play WITP-AE and that's a game designed for the OCD among us. There's so much to keep track of that there's a third party program that will read the save file and generate reports and tables of data to show trends and current levels etc. Each individual pilot is represented for both sides with skill levels for each pilot for about a dozen skills ( straffing, ground attack, escort, etc. ). TOAW IV isn't nearly as complex but it does have almost everything you need to play this game. There's things missing from the game engine ( night missions for aircraft, etc. ) but for the most part war is accurately represented. It's a wonderful game and reminds me a lot of chess but it's a LOT more complicated.



larryfulkerson -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/9/2018 8:21:49 PM)

Elements of the 19th Panzer are fighting in Kilmovichi alongside the 225th Infantry
Division. The Soviets have remnants in the building to the right and a Molitov
cocktail was just thrown from an open window and has engulfed one of the Axis
vehicles. This has just happened and the troops haven't yet started to put it out.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/16B7FF14C1D640238ED930281E0349E1.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/9/2018 9:05:29 PM)

Here's the T13 front lines before I have moved anybody.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/534E275AA52F4177856D950B4C950BFB.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/9/2018 10:29:35 PM)

I've got plans to drive through a Soviet weak spot to do a left hook and try to
get on the inside of the Soviet lines and roll toward the north trapping as many
Soviet units as possible and destroying them. I expect Elmer to respond in some
way to thwart my plans but so far he hasn't.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/474E294783B54A62BD7AD2E7527CDF57.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/10/2018 1:34:03 AM)

Here's a spot down south where there's a lot of action going on. I'm driving the
Hungarians to the front lines where they can lend a hand. They are good for recon
and garrison duties but they are almost worthless on the front lines so this is a
rare occurance. I've got plans to drive them toward Kharkov in a few turns.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/CA7AFF1E9C0F4CF98A751A36AE293691.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/10/2018 7:19:37 AM)

Here's what it looks like in T14 before I have moved anybody.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/C54E57B248384456B2F25B36219FA655.jpg[/image]



EwaldvonKleist -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/10/2018 12:40:54 PM)

In TOAW AARs, as compared to WitE-AARs, you usually see a broad front advance without deep penetrations. Here is an example from WitE of what I mean, look at the penetratration at Smolensk: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4067937&mpage=2&key=�

Also, the forces are more or less equally distributed along the front instead of concentrated on a Schwerpunkt (at least it seems that way from the distribution of the blue counters on the overview maps). Can someone who has played both games enlighten me on what differences in game mechanics are responsible for that?



cpt flam -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/10/2018 1:30:21 PM)

first of all, you can't use a corp to make a breakthrough and than advance full speed with others. Here spending time is the same for everybody.
second Russia will not be impeded as in WitE, they pay ground as Germany; perhaps a bit more but not much.
not advancing on a broad front will leave Elmer sending ants to cut behind
that's from first coming to mind



larryfulkerson -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/10/2018 1:47:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist
In TOAW AARs, as compared to WitE-AARs, you usually see a broad front advance without deep penetrations. Here is an example from WitE of what I mean, look at the penetratration at Smolensk: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4067937&mpage=2&key=?

Also, the forces are more or less equally distributed along the front instead of concentrated on a Schwerpunkt (at least it seems that way from the distribution of the blue counters on the overview maps). Can someone who has played both games enlighten me on what differences in game mechanics are responsible for that?

I'm not sure I know for sure what the differences are, and I've played both games. I never thought of it before I guess.



EwaldvonKleist -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/10/2018 3:12:57 PM)

Thank you for your comments. If I read you correctly, the main factors are:
-time during turn/attacks is progressing for all units at the same time, so deep breakthroughs are harder to achieve
-shorter turn lengths, so the Soviets can react better
-Soviets do not pay such a high cost for entering enemy hexagons/moving through ZOCs as in WitE, therefore they can infiltrate lines much easier, which dictates a broad front advance and flank security.

Do TOAW eastern front scenarios have an element that works against SOviet runaway defences evacuating everything in the west and build a wall of steel somewhere between the Daugava-Dniepr line and the Leningrad/Moscow/Voronesh/Rostov line?
Because if the russian player doesn't let the huge pockets happen, the Red Army will be much stronger than historical come fall 1941.



larryfulkerson -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/10/2018 6:19:45 PM)

quote:


Do TOAW eastern front scenarios have an element that works against SOviet runaway defences evacuating everything in the west and build a wall of steel somewhere between the Daugava-Dniepr line and the Leningrad/Moscow/Voronesh/Rostov line?

Some scenarios have the Soviet units in garrison mode so that they can't move or shoot until they have been attacked.



larryfulkerson -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/10/2018 8:09:36 PM)

This is a close up of the section of the front lines where there's a bulge forming.
Elmer hasn't been keeping up with his maintance of the front lines and he left
a hole and I'm fighting to expand it and to see if I can't take advantage of it in
some way. I need more units to take advantage of it propely but this is a shoestring
operation and there's some things I cannot do but there's enough things I CAN do that
progress is still being made.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/25035BA0DFCA4C71B068B522D610F6BE.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/11/2018 4:23:08 AM)

Here's what it looks like around Odessa right now. I'm going to say that the siege
of Odessa starts soon. The RR engineers in this area didn't make any progress this turn. D'oh.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/7E65A9BD40E34781824E1D175C0AF298.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/11/2018 4:35:06 PM)

Here's the front lines in the north right now. I'm fighting to mop up the area
to the west of Narva by cutting off the supply of all those units. That will
make the take-down easier and I can get the advance back on the road. I feel like
I'm way behind schedule.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/F7884976AE6045078EC8A1D62F35EB41.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/11/2018 11:31:05 PM)

Here's what it looks like down south. I'm clearing out the territories between the
rivers and I'm moving to the SE and I keep running into isolated instances of Soviet
units in small groups or just a single one at a time and I'm thinking it's going to
be a few turns yet before I'll be done.


[image]local://upfiles/16287/0C1D87A8F6BC4773B0A2BFA244A7A62C.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/12/2018 1:28:53 AM)

Here's what's going on around Leningrad currently. The Finns are slowly pushing the
Soviets south and the Germans are slowly clearing the area west of Narva and there's
several units pushing out into Soviet territory to get a gauge of the response, staying
there closer to Leningrad if possible and drive another unit closer, rinse and repeat.

There's a lot of Soviet airpower represented here at Leningrad and I've flown in four
fighter squadrons of Me-109's to contest the air. The losses meter shows how
hot the air war is just now. I've got all the fighters on three-dots. I'm doing that
because of the difference in the proficiency of the two forces, Axis having the advantage,
and the difference in air shock levels. Axis air shock is 120 and the Soviet air shock
is 75.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/529671A52A9C4BFC9037D8E7C706F8D3.jpg[/image]



cpt flam -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/12/2018 7:05:00 AM)

you must take care of Finnish fighters, their production has been review.
some start later and it would be bad to lost them [&o]



larryfulkerson -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/12/2018 8:18:29 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cpt flam
you must take care of Finnish fighters, their production has been review.
some start later and it would be bad to lost them

Hey there Captain Flam dude. Thanks for posting your heads up info. Per your
suggestion for a review, I did a cut and paste of the appropriate Finn squadrons
and looked up their planes and discovered that you're right. Some of those bad
boys don't arrive until T50 or so. Some of these guys need to be parked and used
sparingly. The good news is that I don't plan on using the Finn airforce anywhere
except Finland so once the city of Leningrad is taken I suspect the Finns will be
largely finished with the war. In real life they didn't participate in the fighting
except in around the Leningrad area generally and Finland in particular. Once the
city has fallen the Finn airforce can retire.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/2B66B5A52E4546EA894A22CF8FADD747.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/12/2018 10:51:31 AM)

Here's the front lines in T16 and I have moved only the OKH unit to just
south of the front lines in the north. I have been scanning this picture for the
last several minutes and I see places where I need to shift the troops to fill a
void or spread out the troops to make the lines more even instead of clumpy and
I need to remember to check the supply levels before I initiate any attacks or move
units around. I need to stay out of those hexes that are less than 5. That's the
overextended threashold. I'm guessing I'm close to those hexes right now, at least
in certain spots down south. There's a gap in the supply spread from Kiev to the
other RR teams near Odessa where there's not a lot of supply and I wanted to circle
the Soviets by hugging the rivers and then clearing the center but it's not working
out that way. I've got a bad case of victory disease and I need to stop chasing
Soviet units in the center in the bad supply hexes. I need to get them in a large
pocket first.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/81A10F74E4E6485DA36019B149755513.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/12/2018 11:06:36 AM)

This is Kiev currently and I detect what could be an empty hex near Kiev and I'd
like to explore the possibilities of having that hex. I'm going to see if I can't
get a unit in there.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/E14F49DE0D0E40D69C977B5191BF1F94.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/13/2018 6:17:03 PM)

This is what Leningrad looks like now. The Finns are making progress and the air
war is heating up and we're still in the Fall of the year too. The Soviet BB's have
left port and that means I need to get the Stuka's up here to take a shot at them
because excursions are rare.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/56172B70BCF442ADA8EA985A6BDDBD1B.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/13/2018 6:24:28 PM)

This is what Kiev looks like now. The size of the Soviet defender groups is
getting smaller and I'm hoping I can force the crossing because I need to get on the
east side of the river soonest.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/8CEAA21D06524CBEABB121266CD75E33.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/13/2018 7:47:06 PM)

Here's the T18 front lines before I have moved anybody.
[image]local://upfiles/16287/A05DBDEF21834B28AE548DDFE025EBC0.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/13/2018 8:52:16 PM)

Here's the northern front lines currently and the Soviets have parked the ships that
remain from my attacks as they moved to that position. I sank the two BB's but there's
still some heavy Cruisers etc. that I can shoot so I need to attack the group some more.
I've gotten one of my divisions too far forward and cut off and now I need to rescue
them. The mop up to the west is almost done and those troops can make their way to
Narva and points east. The Finns are slowly approaching their stop lines and
the story is different south of Leningrad. I had predicted about 10 turns ago that
I would have been attacking the city by now and it didn't happen so I feel like I'm
behind schedule. On the other hand the stopping of the advance has allowed the rails
to be repaired a lot closer and the supply levels are fairly good and climbing.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/D854BC22E5B848ACAC4AA298A901337F.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/15/2018 9:36:55 AM)

I finally captured Smolensk and it's supply point. I switched to my game with Brian
to do those moves and I come back here afterward and I find I've lost my battlefield
awareness. That's the trouble playing more than one game at a time. I need to start
keeping a more detailed AAR so I can refresh myself about what's going on.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/F41E69E71703401B8377D8E2AAB03290.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/15/2018 10:06:48 AM)

Here's Kiev currently and you can see how much the perimeter around the
Soviet defenders has gotten smaller and more attacks are scheduled. I'm hoping to
be able to force a crossing somewhere to get on the east side of the river. I'd
like to be able to surround Kiev before I take it down so I can kill as many of
the Soviet defenders as possible but the units on the east side of the river are
still further north yet.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/3A7934C0AC1C406C8978ED511F1D1AB7.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/15/2018 12:31:00 PM)

Here's the front lines in T20 before I have moved anybody. I'll give you a zoom-in
in the next post.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/86ED5D432908407D886AF7A59DB415D5.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/15/2018 12:32:37 PM)

Here's the zoom-in on the front lines in T20.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/337F909743154A7EAAA9A155910E06AB.jpg[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: More adventures in Russia ( D21.v.4.6 ) (5/15/2018 6:29:11 PM)

While I'm doing my moves I'm listening to You Tube videos and I found one about
the band AC/DC and I've found it helps keep me awake after I've been at it
for a while. Any AC/DC fans out there?

Thunderstruck:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2AC41dglnM

[image]local://upfiles/16287/9E21B81F70464FE4B0A31F4B0442B614.jpg[/image]



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