RE: 4 player game (Full Version)

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Mayhemizer_slith -> RE: 4 player game (11/14/2018 8:05:54 AM)

Turn ended on a roll of 3.

No partisans.

USSR marker to offence, one marker from defense to offence.

EDIT: Germany places one marker to offence and one marker to defense.



Mayhemizer_slith -> RE: 4 player game (11/14/2018 12:56:02 PM)

US entry marker to Japan pool.

No entry actions.



Orm -> RE: 4 player game (11/14/2018 3:06:38 PM)

Units destroyed during Jul/Aug '40.

[image]local://upfiles/29130/ADE76D1653904ECB90485F81C5E61E33.jpg[/image]



Orm -> RE: 4 player game (11/16/2018 2:54:49 PM)

Jul/Aug '40

Axis end of turn, part one:

Preliminary planning:
Germany - No changes needed - 18 BPs
Italy - No changes needed - 8 BPs
Japan - No changes needed - 16 BPs


Stay at sea:
The following units stay at sea.

Germany:
4 CPs stay in the Baltic Sea. (2 CPs return to port)

Italy:
Two SUB West Med 4-box
Two CA Italian Coast 4-box
Two CA East Med 4-box
All CPs

Japan:
CA Mikuma South China Sea 1-box
2*BB+CA China Sea 1-box
All CPs


Return to Base:

Germany:
BB + two CPs -> Kiel
SUB -> Brest
Lnd2 Ju 87D Stuka West Med 2-box -> hex (73,37) (SW Trapani)
Lnd2 Hs 123 West Med 2-box -> hex (74,36) (E Tunis)
Ftr2 He 100 West Med 2-box -> La Spezia
Ftr2 He 112 West Med 2-box -> La Spezia

Italy:
Sub East Coast -> La Spezia
2*Task Force West Med 2-box and 3-box -> La Spezia
2*CA Italian Coast 0-box -> La Spezia
Nav3 West Med 2-box -> Cagliari
Nav2(FTR value 0) -> hex (73,37) (SW Trapani)
Nav2(FTR value 1) West Med 2-box -> hex (74,39)
Ftr2 Re. 2000 West Med 2-box -> hex (74,39)

Japan:
Amph South China Sea 1-box -> Shanghai
TRS China Sea 0-box -> Osaka
TRS China Sea 1-box -> Fukuoka


Use Oil:

Japan:
All units, except CA and TRS in Fukuoka, reorganized for 1 oil (1.4) in Kyoto.

Germany:
All units reorganized for 3 oil (3.3). Use 2 oil in Prague and 1 in Paris.

Italy:
All units reorganized for 2 oil (2.35). Use 1 oil in Milan and 1 in Rome.

Breakdown:
No


Production:
Germany (18):
MTN
Air Landing Div
HQA
Pilot
FTR2

Italy (8):
CP
Pilot
FTR2
Sub face down
Repair TRS

Japan (16):
ARM
Mil
CV face up Shokaku
Pilot
FTR2
CVP1
CP



Orm -> RE: 4 player game (11/16/2018 2:57:14 PM)

Axis end of turn, part two:

Germany does not create Vichy France.

Factory destruction:

Germany:
Blue factories in Vichy, Paris, and Lyons, are destroyed.

Italy:
Blue factories in Rouen is destroyed.

Japan:
Blue factories in Chunking is destroyed.

Reinforcements:

Germany:
FTR3 -> Vienna
FTR2 (Bf 109E7) -> Cologne
INF -> Vienna
Synth Oil -> Berlin

Italy:
LND3 -> Palermo

Japan:
FTR2 (A6M2) -> Kyoto
CP -> Tokyo
MIL -> Osaka

Remove CVP1 (B5N1), not loaded on CV, in Fukuoka.


Voluntary Resource Lending:

Modified
Germany -> Italy 7 resources, 1 oil


Axis goes first if we win the initiative. No re-roll.



brian brian -> RE: 4 player game (11/16/2018 3:45:35 PM)

I just did a search on Google Images for WWII Newspaper Headlines. They never underlined one.

Both sides are playing well, keep on keeping on gents, and thanks for the entertainment.



jjdenver -> RE: 4 player game (11/17/2018 1:39:10 PM)

40 JA EOT for allies:

Prod Plan Prelim
France: Oil is saved to Syria, no need to change. Set all other recources idle so that France produces nothing (CW gets one more BP by editing file).
USSR: Change oil to be saved at Moscow.
China: sad face
CW: no change for EOT, production should be full with a couple of BP's reaching from France.
US: stop saving 1 oil to get an extra BP

Stay at sea and RTB
France:
All possible ships stays at sea.
CW: A few ships are left at sea in BoB & N Atl

USSR:
CA to Vladivostok.
France:
BB from CSV returns to Mogador in Morocco.
CA from CVB returns to Dakar.
CW: Dutch TRS to Liverpool, TRS from Arabian Sea back to S.A. on top of North Rhodesian TER
Most other ships to Liverpool or Gib

Oil use
France: reorg all using 1 oil in Damascus.
USSR: reorg all using 1 recourse in Bushehr.
CW: 7.8 (or something close to that need to be reorged due to not being able to reorg last turn)
5.45 are re-orged since only 6 oil are available. Thank goodness US is lending 5 now or CW would be in real trouble without NEI oil.
US: reorg .4

Production
France 1 (I forgot to compensate CW this turn so saved in Bordeaux we can do CW compensate next turn
USSR 17
Scrap LND3 (SB-2RK)
INF x3
ARM
Pilot
China 3 save all 3
CW 21:
BB[fd], TRS[fd]
NAV4,NAV3, 2xPIL
MOT,INF
US: 14
BB[fd],TRS[fd],cp
GAR
save 7

Reinforcements
China INF to Angkang and WL to Kunming
CW: PIL into Hurricane.
2xCA+Hurricane+ARM+supply+cp -> Liverpool
MOT->Halifax
US GAR->San Diego, cp->Norfolk
France
Assign pilot to FTR2 (D520S)
FTR to Toulouse
INF to Bourdeaux
AT gun to Toulouse

Remove pilot from Hawk in Toulouse.

USSR
Assign pilots to bombers TB-3, SB-2bis, Pe-8, IL-4, Pe-2 and fighter I-153.
Fort to Leningrad facing NW (hexside 1)
2x INF to Vladivostok
Pe-8 to Khaborovsk
SB-2bis to Blagovyeshcensk
IL-4 to Blagovyeshcensk
TB-3 to Vladivostok
Pe-2 to Vladivostok
FTR to Vladivostok

Axis win init, go first, and get fantastic weather with a 2.



jjdenver -> RE: 4 player game (11/17/2018 2:12:43 PM)

Some quick analysis from the allied side.

It's clear to me at this point that the game won't be won by allies

Too many things went wrong for allies so far:
no garrison on NEI oil hex loses it for CW
USE options not saved to open Burma road
China lost too quickly and with little JP loss
Soviets no attack on Manchuria

But none of this is completely decisive. What's important is that it appears Axis has chosen the most devastating of all Axis strategies and probably the only "broken" strategy in WIF - to align Spain by Gib. This really should have been addressed somehow in rules - for example a 65 USE hit for aligning Spain (not enough to fix this but at least something to help Allies), or something like that. Once Spain is aligned my opinion is that it's impossible for Allies to win the game unless something unbelievably bad has happened to Japan, and in this case Japan has probably the best start imaginable for Japan in WIF. Usually as allies I bend every effort to prevent exactly this strategy because I know it will lead to a long and boring (for allies at least and honestly for both sides I think) Axis win. There are a few things allies can do to try to prevent this strategy but I think it's too late now for it to be prevented. With Spain aligned it will be difficult for allies to do anything before 1944.

I've used this strategy in a game before as Axis to recover from the worst Japanese start that I've ever seen and it led to allied surrender by 43.

About the 1D10 I wish it offered the possibility of losing 3 units and I wish it forced MOT/MECH/ARM loss as first loss if blitz is chosen.

Let's watch it unfold. If enough of the WIF community sees this strategy at work maybe house rules against it will become common. And maybe I have it all wrong, I often do.



Centuur -> RE: 4 player game (11/17/2018 4:10:30 PM)

I don't agree at all. First: the Royal Navy should attack the Italian Navy again and again. They can affort the loss of twice as many BB's as the Italians have around and still have a formidable navy to rule the seas. Every impulse they should fight the Italians at sea. Fight and fight again. Someday you get the die rolls to crush the Italian Navy and their precious TRS...

Second: defend Gibraltar with two white prints units and a division. That's 14 factors if they all get disorganised (which should not happen because):

Third: defend Morocco and Oran with CW units and put in FTR's to aid the defense. I always try to get CW land units into Algiers and Oran as soon as I can. If the Axis declare Vichy, this problem simply disappears.

No chance to align Spain...




Mayhemizer_slith -> RE: 4 player game (11/17/2018 5:24:12 PM)

I trust that Allies will win, but I’m less experienced than jjdenver and never played a game where Spain is aligned.

Allies did some critical mistakes before jjdenver joined to game. But as long as USSR and CW are free countries I will not give up [:)]



brian brian -> RE: 4 player game (11/18/2018 12:12:20 AM)

Either side could still win; game is nowhere close to clear victory for either.

Allies can lose China and still beat Japan handily.

Neither side has built well for a Gibraltar-gambit game; it can be a powerful strategy but is not an automatic (or even all that easy) one. Neither side has built perfectly for what is coming in Asia, nor has either side made large strategic errors in Asia. Though dice can magnify tactical decisions; other times dice paper them over with neither side even realizing what might have been. It is a horrendously overused cliche in sports but is true in gaming - each side “has to execute their game plan.”

Weather will be important in S/O 40; that might reveal much on recent seemingly minor decisions by each side in Europe. Lines of play can still go in several directions.



Orm -> RE: 4 player game (11/18/2018 8:09:50 AM)

Sep/Oct '40
Impulse #1 (Axis)

No declarations of war.

Land: Japan
Combined: Germany
Naval: Italy

No port strikes.

Naval air:

Germany fly one FTR2 (He 100), and one LND3 (Ju 86G), extended range, to the 2-box in the Western Mediterranean.

Japan fly one FTR2 to the 0-box of the China Sea.

Naval movement:

Germany:

A German task force with the ships Scharnhorst, Gneisenau, Blücher, Admiral Hipper, leave Kiel.

[image]local://upfiles/29130/0290DA01819549CE9E60478DF772CFAB.jpg[/image]
Operation Berlin has commenced.



Orm -> RE: 4 player game (11/18/2018 8:41:11 AM)

Naval movement continued:

Germany:

The task force pass the Faeroes Gap and enter the North Atlantic.

Italy:

- The TRS in La Spezia load the German PARA and sail to Trapani, Sicily. The force is escorted by the cruiser Zara.
- One CP sail to the Western Mediterranean.
- The battleship Conte Di Cavour, and the cruiser Garibaldi sail for the Italian Coast 3-box. The CA embark the German division in La Spezia.
- One submarine leave La Spezia for the US East Coast.
- The CA Fiume also leave La Spezia. It sail to the 3-box in the Eastern Mediterranean where it embarks the German division on Cyprus.


[image]local://upfiles/29130/E708053B4A674932BC0D48F240301440.jpg[/image]
Picture from Sep/Oct '40 Impulse #1 (Axis) - Naval Movement



Orm -> RE: 4 player game (11/18/2018 8:50:04 AM)

Italy initiates combat in the East Coast.

[image]local://upfiles/29130/431A498FB28A4830A5EECFE669DBB681.jpg[/image]
Picture from Sep/Oct '40 Impulse #1 (Axis) - Naval Combat



Orm -> RE: 4 player game (11/18/2018 8:55:28 AM)

Axis roll 4, and Allies roll 1. No combat in the East Coast. Germany activates the North Atlantic next.



Orm -> RE: 4 player game (11/18/2018 9:00:40 AM)

The Axis naval search trend continues. 10 for Axis and 7 for Allies. No naval combat. [:(]



Orm -> RE: 4 player game (11/18/2018 9:14:59 AM)

No strategic bombing.

Ground Strike:

Japan:
The artillery continue to bombard the isolated Chinese cavalry.

Germany:
Fliegerkorps X begins bombing Malta (LND3, LND2, LND2).

Italy:
LND3 from Tunis bomb Malta.

[image]local://upfiles/29130/D51DF28B2F6447F1BE18DC284F8AA9C7.jpg[/image]
Picture from Sep/Oct '40 Impulse #1 (Axis) - Ground Strike



Orm -> RE: 4 player game (11/18/2018 9:45:41 AM)

No words. [:(]

[image]local://upfiles/29130/CD14FE8DC9E54B578EC6B182F2354B97.jpg[/image]
Picture from Sep/Oct '40 Impulse #1 (Axis) - Ground Strike



Orm -> RE: 4 player game (11/18/2018 9:49:13 AM)

Picture from Sep/Oct '40 Impulse #1 (Axis) - Ground Strike


[image]local://upfiles/29130/23CBCE2ED73541B29BA103D1C821A70B.jpg[/image]



jjdenver -> RE: 4 player game (11/18/2018 12:01:14 PM)

Thanks Centuur,

The below is what I do to try to stop them as well. But I've seen Axis simply roll over this defense. The only part I'm not as sure about is attacking IT navy in W Med. With heavy axis air in the med and navy in the 2 box the CW can lose a lot of ships very quickly. But in bad weather this is definitely something that I agree with.

We'll see how it plays out this time. I'm in a game where CW lost a huge number of ships early battling the Italians and it really hurts the allies later since the KM & RM can destroy allied plans in 1943 & 1944 if the RN is a shell.

"I don't agree at all. First: the Royal Navy should attack the Italian Navy again and again. They can affort the loss of twice as many BB's as the Italians have around and still have a formidable navy to rule the seas. Every impulse they should fight the Italians at sea. Fight and fight again. Someday you get the die rolls to crush the Italian Navy and their precious TRS...

Second: defend Gibraltar with two white prints units and a division. That's 14 factors if they all get disorganised (which should not happen because):

Third: defend Morocco and Oran with CW units and put in FTR's to aid the defense. I always try to get CW land units into Algiers and Oran as soon as I can. If the Axis declare Vichy, this problem simply disappears.

No chance to align Spain..."



Orm -> RE: 4 player game (11/18/2018 1:58:09 PM)

Germany rail one ART from France to Hungary.

Land Movement:

Germany:

1) HQI (von Bock) moves three hexes west.
2) HQA (Rundstedt) moves 4 hexes southwest.
3) 51st INF overrun a French FTR2. Where will the French fighter land?

[image]local://upfiles/29130/64F094EB453941FC821CB174021C0210.jpg[/image]
Picture from Sep/Oct '40 Impulse #1 (Axis) - Land Movement



Mayhemizer_slith -> RE: 4 player game (11/18/2018 2:35:16 PM)

Toulouse, thank you.



peskpesk -> RE: 4 player game (11/18/2018 3:28:13 PM)

Japan moves units in sounth, central China, Korea.


[image]local://upfiles/9545/B82CC5EE480948039772CFAC3ECA1775.jpg[/image]



peskpesk -> RE: 4 player game (11/18/2018 3:32:52 PM)

Germany lanuches Operation Herkules (German: Unternehmen Herkules; Italian: Operazione C3) was the German code-name given to the plan for the invasion of Malta during World War II.


2* Inf Div Invades Malta.




[image]local://upfiles/9545/385BB21833524E6B9D5C7B3AFB6F6C4D.jpg[/image]



peskpesk -> RE: 4 player game (11/18/2018 3:35:12 PM)

The II Para joins the assault.



[image]local://upfiles/9545/989A381B615D4F218016898DA17BC9CA.jpg[/image]



peskpesk -> RE: 4 player game (11/18/2018 3:38:48 PM)

Japan makes 2 land attacks.



[image]local://upfiles/9545/421695C1B78946728B962C858DB8D48F.jpg[/image]



peskpesk -> RE: 4 player game (11/18/2018 3:42:13 PM)

Does CW want to use notional on Malta? I think is's zero strength.





[image]local://upfiles/9545/DDA7AA337FA54048BDB6C413E57CF34A.jpg[/image]



Mayhemizer_slith -> RE: 4 player game (11/18/2018 4:02:12 PM)

If it’s 0 strength what is the point of having notional?

How much Axis have possible support coming from sea and air?



peskpesk -> RE: 4 player game (11/18/2018 4:08:29 PM)

Not mutch. The max Axis stength is 5,5*3 (Shore bombardment and air support) =16.5 vs 5 -> 3:1 assault with chance to 4-1.



Mayhemizer_slith -> RE: 4 player game (11/18/2018 4:13:52 PM)

Can you test if notional has strength or nor?

If not, no reason to take it as it gives +1.

If it has strenth 1, attack is 2-1 or 3-1 and we use notional.



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