RE: T58 (Full Version)

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joelmar -> RE: T58 (7/18/2019 3:11:09 PM)

quote:


ORIGINAL: xhoel
The second attack was very close to crossing the 1.5 odds ratio which is needed to drop fort levels by 1 full level.


That I didn't know, thanks for the info. I am currently fighting for Sevastopol in my PBEM game in turn 16. After the turn action, the city is completely isolated, but I didn't attack it yet, as I am still in the process of clearing the mountains to the east. So forts level in city still at 5. I hope to finish it before the end of the year, but mud is coming and the railhead is at Nikolaev. So it might be hard to maintain myself there for 3 mud weeks and I might need to pull back a bit, giving the Soviets time and space to reinforce.



xhoel -> RE: T58 (7/18/2019 3:30:47 PM)

Sure thing. I was planning on doing a separate thread on the forums about dropping fort levels but have been busy lately. I have run quite a few tests and have been fighting in the Crimea for a year now so I can give you some advice if you want ( feel free to PM me).

There are 5 weeks of mud if I recall correctly. I would advise you against pulling back from the Crimea. If you can't assault the city, have your units sit tight and dig in there. Come blizzard, the Crimea will be a safe heaven as it only suffers blizzard penalties for 4-5 weeks (in January), the rest of the time the weather is snow and you can get Romanians there and a couple of German IDs to hold the line without any problems like I did in this AAR.

Cheers!



joelmar -> RE: T58 (7/18/2019 6:06:35 PM)

I'm playing with normal weather option. I checked the normal weather table in the manual's and it gives me 4 weeks:

18 - 16 oct
19 - 23 oct
20 - 30 oct
21 - 6 nov

And there is no blizzard at all in the winter 1941-42 for Europe Zone. Again, that is normal weather. But you're right for the random weather from what I see in the tables.

At the moment I have 11th army down there, with a full line-up of 12 divisions, including Air Landing and a few rumanians, and some of my best leaders at corps level. Also the Soviet guys remaining down there are not very strong, so it's very good for me... so don't worry, I have no intention to pull back an inch from my actual positions unless I have no choice because of the supply situation, which is my only concern for now.



xhoel -> RE: T58 (7/18/2019 6:46:21 PM)

I am playing with the fixed weather option too and yes you are right, mud lasts for 4 turns, turn 18,19,20,21. Turn 22 is snow.

You are incorrect on the blizzard thing though. There is Blizzard in the Europe Zone but only in January. December and February have Snow. I just rechecked the AAR and can confirm this is the case.

Good. I would say hold the position and wait till supply catches up. I doubt the units will be isolated but will probably be >50Mps from rail. Burning some trucks is worth it in this case since it offers you a good advantage!



joelmar -> RE: T58 (7/18/2019 6:54:40 PM)

quote:


ORIGINAL: Xhoel
You are incorrect on the blizzard thing though. There is Blizzard in the Europe Zone but only in January. December and February have Snow. I just rechecked the AAR and can confirm this is the case.


Might be from experience, so I won't argue since I never played it myself. But unless I misunderstand, here is what the manual v. 2.5.5 states at 22.2.1:

Notes 1: There will be no automatic Blizzard in December 1941 and January 1942 in Europe Zone.

For the Sevastopol situation in my game, thanks, that confirms what I thought. For the trucks, I'm already taking steps to make sure I use as little of them as possible everywhere on the front.



Telemecus -> RE: T58 (7/18/2019 7:02:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joelmar

quote:


ORIGINAL: Xhoel
You are incorrect on the blizzard thing though. There is Blizzard in the Europe Zone but only in January. December and February have Snow. I just rechecked the AAR and can confirm this is the case.


Might be from experience, so I won't argue since I never played it myself. But unless I misunderstand, here is what the manual v. 2.5.5 states at 22.2.1:


Had the experience of both reading that in the (old) manual there was no blizzard and knowing that there is a blizzard in January in Europe in the game. I am not sure if it is updated in the new manual?



joelmar -> RE: T58 (7/18/2019 7:05:44 PM)

quote:


ORIGINAL: Telemecus
Had the experience of both reading that in the (old) manual there was no blizzard and knowing that there is a blizzard in January in Europe in the game. I am not sure if it is updated in the new manual?


That might indeed be the problem. I makes quite a difference though if it is the case.



xhoel -> RE: T58 (7/18/2019 7:13:36 PM)

Just checked the manual. Having seen it first hand I would say that the manual is incorrect. I had normal blizzard in January which then reverted to Snow in February. I also just checked the 2by3+ team game, January shows blizzard in the Crimea.



Telemecus -> RE: T58 (7/18/2019 7:17:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: xhoel

Just checked the manual. Having seen it first hand I would say that the manual is incorrect. I had normal blizzard in January which then reverted to Snow in February. I also just checked the 2by3+ team game, January shows blizzard in the Crimea.


is that in the new manual - if so Chris will want the corrections for next version

8MP team game and another one too - so very definitely blizzard in January in Europe zone



xhoel -> RE: T58 (7/18/2019 7:24:03 PM)

I think so, yeah. The 8MP game was random weather though, right?



Telemecus -> RE: T58 (7/18/2019 7:28:54 PM)

Both 8MP and 2by3+ were random weather but beyond unlikely possibility of freak repeat blizzard. I suppose you could test it to be sure by a game against yourself with fixed weather and press end turn 18 times for each side without moving any units. All the saves I keep to test things are random weather unfortunately.



xhoel -> RE: T58 (7/18/2019 7:33:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Both 8MP and 2by3+ were random weather but beyond unlikely possibility of freak repeat blizzard. I suppose you could test it to be sure by a game against yourself with fixed weather and press end turn 18 times for each side without moving any units. All the saves I keep to test things are random weather unfortunately.


I checked and 2by3+ is fixed weather. Or at least that's what the options screen shows. I'm sure that 8MP is random though. I'm pretty sure that January of 42 is blizzard so no need for tests there really :D



Telemecus -> RE: T58 (7/18/2019 7:35:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: xhoel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

Both 8MP and 2by3+ were random weather but beyond unlikely possibility of freak repeat blizzard. I suppose you could test it to be sure by a game against yourself with fixed weather and press end turn 18 times for each side without moving any units. All the saves I keep to test things are random weather unfortunately.


I checked and 2by3+ is fixed weather. Or at least that's what the options screen shows. I'm sure that 8MP is random though. I'm pretty sure that January of 42 is blizzard so no need for tests there really :D



Wow - I am sure we agreed random! Well you discover something new every day [:D]



xhoel -> RE: T58 (7/18/2019 10:09:26 PM)

quote:

Telemecus

Wow - I am sure we agreed random! Well you discover something new every day [:D]


I stand corrected, 2by3+ is also random weather, my bad while checking the options.



joelmar -> RE: T58 (7/18/2019 11:52:54 PM)

I started an AI vs AI game when you mentionned it, it ran in the background for a while, and I can double confirm that it's blizzard all the way in January in Crimea.



xhoel -> RE: T58 (7/19/2019 2:25:02 PM)

Thanks for the confirmation. I posted it in the New Manual thread and hope Chris will change it soon.

Cheers!



EwaldvonKleist -> RE: T58 (7/20/2019 12:05:47 PM)

Model does not seem up to his Job. You should appoint a better general at Sevastopol.
Cost/return ratio of the Sevastopol operation worsens @) :-(

Sometimes I wish to have an "execute general" button to reduce aggression (it removes the general permanently from the game and AI picks a replacement)



xhoel -> RE: T58 (7/20/2019 12:18:53 PM)

I have had some really bad luck in Sevastopol and the Soviets have had some really good luck. That is the way of war I guess. You can imagine my frustration after all 3 attacks failed [:@] Bitburger was surprised that the city held again as well. I have been laying siege to this cursed fortress for more than a month now and I really hope I can take it next week. Getting those units to surrender (if things go the way I have planned) although most men will escape will be a small consolation prize.




EwaldvonKleist -> RE: T58 (7/20/2019 12:27:58 PM)

Is the port damaged sufficiently so Soviet units will be isolated ?



xhoel -> RE: T58 (7/20/2019 12:55:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

Is the port damaged sufficiently so Soviet units will be isolated ?


Nope, after all the combat of 5 weeks, the port is at around 60% damage. But I have figured a way that can force the Soviets to surrender instead of routing. Won't ruin the surprise, will be part of the next update when the city falls :D And no, it is not gamey, it simply utilizes an overlooked documented rule which I am pretty sure can only be applied on Sevastopol.



EwaldvonKleist -> RE: T58 (7/20/2019 2:06:00 PM)

Now I am curious, is it about the maximum possible rout range (block the possible rout spots)?

Or another idea, offer a good rout spot which will be immediately isolated?

Is your WitW game still active?



xhoel -> RE: T58 (7/20/2019 3:20:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

Now I am curious, is it about the maximum possible rout range (block the possible rout spots)?

Or another idea, offer a good rout spot which will be immediately isolated?



I take it you have read the manual in detail :D Yes it is about the max rout range and it also deals with blocking the possible rout spots.

Best case scenario for me would be to rout them and isolate them and get some POWs out of the whole ordeal but I don't know if the situation will allow for that. I doubt that the Southern Front will collapse in a week so I will most likely go for the safer option and just force them to surrender.

Ofc I don't want to get ahead of myself. I have tested the rule and it seems to be working as described but there are many things to consider. Until I have turn 59 in my hand and can see what the situation is like, difficult to say which option I will chose. I am praying to the gods that he doesn't move another Rifle Corps in the city though :/

quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

Is your WitW game still active?



Yeah the game is still ongoing. We are done with turn 33 but I have not updated the AAR yet as I have been really busy with real life and because nothing of importance happened on the ground during that turn. I did get a beat down by the WA airforce though, they hit all airfields in central Italy and have decimated most recon and tactical bomber groups.




MattFL -> RE: T58 (7/29/2019 5:43:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

I think in the Caucasus the Soviet side made a mistake in creating that straight line of units north of the Kuban.


Ya think? [:)]




MattFL -> RE: T58 (7/29/2019 5:46:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joelmar
Also the Soviet guys remaining down there are not very strong....



An extremely temporary situation to be sure. Enough there to hold it now and by the time you're ready to attack, it will be against fearful CV. [sm=00000622.gif]



joelmar -> RE: T58 (8/1/2019 1:00:13 PM)

quote:


ORIGINAL: MattFL

An extremely temporary situation to be sure. Enough there to hold it now and by the time you're ready to attack, it will be against fearful CV.


sorry, I had missed your comment... Expected of course! :-) Exactly why I have a few reinforcements of my own coming down and it won't even show elsewhere! Wintering units has a few advantages! And I have 2 months of winter down there, no blizzard... so... [sm=00000613.gif]

By the way, the mountains are cleared! :-)



xhoel -> T59 (8/3/2019 8:15:00 PM)

T59, 30th July- 6th of August 1942
Army Group Finland

The Finnish air force launched successful raids against Soviet airfields in the north during this week, destroying 35 fighters for the loss of 6 fighters and 2 bombers. This is the second raid of this kind to happen in July. The raids are being conducted with the aim of weakening the Leningrad Air Command deployed in the sector and to protect Finnish ground forces from air attacks that have been continuing since the start of the summer.

We have begun rotating Finnish forces to their home theater in order to increase their morale and fighting power.

[image]local://upfiles/57112/1EDA37C3BF98441E80B7B7F9AD4D7FC8.jpg[/image]

Positions after Axis moves and attacks. Marked in red are targets that were bombed by Soviet tactical bombers.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/ISqMFJq.jpg[/img]

Example of a unit that has just been transferred to Finland. Notice the low morale.




Telemecus -> RE: T59 (8/3/2019 8:31:11 PM)

What ToEs do you keep Finnish coastal brigades as compared to normal Finnish divisions? I guess you might make other distinctions between higher and lower XP or morale too. My reason for asking is that I found the ToE of coastal brigades left them with a lower CV/man than the ToE of Finnish divisions, other things being equal. This is only an impressionistic finding. So given the manpower constraints of Finland I put all coastal brigades on the lowest priority for max Toe whatever their XP/morale.



xhoel -> RE: T59 (8/3/2019 8:41:41 PM)

AGN

The bridgehead over the Volga held and the Soviets have repositioned their forces in preparation for further attacks. The main goal of the week was to expand the bridgehead to 20 miles deep and 30 miles wide. This goal was partially achieved.

Strong attacks by the 9th Army and the 3rd Panzer Army managed to break the Soviet defenders on the river line but further attacks inland were stopped by determined Soviet resistance. The difficult terrain meant that the Panzer forces lost most of their mobility (MPs) during the river crossings and were not able to launch strong attacks to expand the bridgehead to the east. The Soviets held 4 attacks in the sector and seeing how further attacks would probably fail, the 3rd Panzer Army was ordered on the defensive. Fuel was transported by air to the forward units. The advance will resume next week.

Further to the south, the last Soviet units defending west of the Volga have been pushed back and now the western bank is fully under our control.

Our attack on Kalinin has failed and the attacking units have taken heavy losses in the process. Further attacks are off the table right now but taking the city remains an objective for AGN.

Rail repair is continuing as planned and FBD 2 has reached the town of Maksatikha. All and all not a very good week for AGN. Disappointing is also the fact that the elite GD Mot. Regiment has not changed its TOE to a divisional TOE, something that should have been done since early May.

Positions at the start of the week:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/L5Z0NZU.jpg[/img]

Positions after German moves:

[image]local://upfiles/57112/03D1F58CA743483D8493E69989F4289F.jpg[/image]

In red, Soviet holds.






xhoel -> RE: T59 (8/3/2019 9:04:16 PM)

AGC

As part of the planned offensive to trap the Soviet forces located west of the Oka Bridghead, the 4th Army launched a strong attack and captured Ryazan. After that, forces of the 2nd Army and 2nd Panzer Army pushed to the west, routing several Soviet formations in the process. The opening was exploited by the 4th Panzer Army, which after further attacks has taken defensive positions to secure the gains made. 3 Soviet Rifle divisions are trapped, a further 8 are pressed with their backs against the Oka river and 9 Rifle Divisions were routed during the fighting. We hope to keep the momentum going in this sector and encircle the Soviet formations that are being held on the Oka while also continuing the advance north.

To the east, the 1st Tank Army (under Rotmistrovs command) attacked across the river Vad pushing back the defending German regiment. We launched counterattacks, pushing back the enemy forces and retaking the river line.

Positions at the start of the week:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/NqHxb5E.jpg[/img]

Positions during German moves:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/8aKKVIC.jpg[/img]


I had a chance to launch a strong deliberate attack here and rout all 3 formations, clearing the position. However I was not sure the attack was going to be successful (and everything was hanging on its success). Also if I had launched the attack I would be short of MPs to secure the gains made. Therefore I did not take the risk and did not launch the attack.

Positions after German moves:

[image]local://upfiles/57112/DD3370D9A2694E9AA74D2C0C03F061B3.jpg[/image]





xhoel -> RE: T59 (8/3/2019 11:45:16 PM)

AGS

AGS has been split in Army Group A and Army Group B. More detail on the way the armies will be split will be given next week.

The pocket in the south held. Soviet forces have pulled back and reestablished new defensive lines. After the destruction of the trapped Soviet forces, elements of the 1st Panzer Army were ordered to push hard to reach the port of Novorossiysk. They have done so, cutting off the Taman peninsula in the process. 1 Rifle Division and 1 Guard Mountain division are trapped in the peninsula. The 17th Army and the rest of the 1st Panzer Army punched through Soviet defensive lines on the river Kuban. Forward elements of the 25th Mot. Division have captured the oilfields of Maikop. 2 Soviet Rifle divisions have been trapped in the sector but they might escape. Some of the Panzer divisions have been resupplied by air. The objective now will be to prevent the Soviet forces defending Krasnodar from accessing the ports and finishing them off before moving east.

Positions at the start of the week:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/DqJ6TiZ.jpg[/img]

Positions after Axis moves:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/SjTh56O.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/BKfFGCY.jpg[/img]

Soviet holds shown in red.

AGS overview:

[image]local://upfiles/57112/412DDFBCBAC04517971FDD22E91F08FB.jpg[/image]

Crimea

The Fortress of Sevastopol has finally fallen after 2 attacks. This brings an end to the 5 week long siege of the fortress port. The enemy forces (50,000 men and around 600 guns) were evacuated by sea, first in the town of Anapa on the Black Sea coast and after that they evacuated to the outskirts of Novorossiysk. They have only suffered light losses in the process and these units will surely become a thorne on our side. The AA units defending the city have surrendered en masse.

The capture of Sevastopol also brings an end to the Crimean campaign, which lasted 11 weeks (turn 49-turn 59). The 11th Army and the V Fliegerkorps are now free to be redeployed elsewhere, the capture of Sevastopol means that the risk of Soviet naval landings has dropped to 0.

Combat casualties during the siege were very heavy, around 7.000 Germans were KIA, many more died from wounds or were incapacitated.

Fall of Sevastopol:

[img]https://i.imgur.com/Cf8GLo1.jpg[/img]





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