Minesweeping tactics

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jwolf -> Minesweeping tactics (6/17/2018 3:20:45 PM)
My question is about sweeping mines at an enemy base with coastal guns, for example, Truk. I did eventually clear those mines, but lost several minesweepers to the guns. Now, much later in the game, I am considering the same at Pescadores and other bases closer to the Japanese heartland. Can I protect the minesweepers if I add some muscle to their TF -- say a cruiser or even a BB? Or would I simply risk my capital ships to the minefield? But without those big ships, the minesweepers are easy prey for the enemy guns. How do players manage this?

GetAssista -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/17/2018 4:46:53 PM)
There is no safe tactics in this case in general. It seems that bombardment from longer distances (like 25+) with BB/CA TFs has much smaller chance of activating mines, and can disable some or all of the CD guns. Then you can send in minesweepers, especially in moonless nights. I used it to clear SF from mines in the AI game I had.

Lokasenna -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/17/2018 8:56:29 PM)
Bombardment TFs very rarely hit mines, regardless of their distance setting. The distance setting should only be used if you want to avoid shorter range coastal guns. CD guns present in a base hex will always fire upon minesweepers. I suggest you just eat the losses, or plan for a few casualties from your ships as they unload (presumably you are going to invade). Once a minefield is detected, it is much less hazardous to your ships, even if they are coming in to unload. I don't think you can embed cruisers/battleships into a "Minesweeping" TF, can you? Pretty sure it's mine/patrol type craft only.

BillBrown -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/18/2018 1:34:07 AM)
A tactic you can try, is to make an Amphibious TF with only BBs and AMs in it and send it to the base first. As an Amphibious TF it will get close to the shore and trigger the minefield and hopefully the BBs will protect the AMs. This tactic might be seen as a bit 'gamey' but it is allowed by the code.

jwolf -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/18/2018 2:31:05 AM)
Hmm, following up on Lokasenna's post, I did belatedly see that you can't put cruisers or battleships in a minesweeping force, nor can minesweeping ships be added to a bombardment force. I suspect that is a deliberate design feature. Bill's tactic is very clever but admittedly it does seem gamey. Thanks to all for the comments and suggestions.

Chris21wen -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/18/2018 6:15:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jwolf Hmm, following up on Lokasenna's post, I did belatedly see that you can't put cruisers or battleships in a minesweeping force, nor can minesweeping ships be added to a bombardment force. I suspect that is a deliberate design feature. Bill's tactic is very clever but admittedly it does seem gamey. Thanks to all for the comments and suggestions. DMS can

CaptBeefheart -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/18/2018 6:49:03 AM)
I was going to suggest DMs or DMSs embedded in shore bombardment TFs, but I haven't tried it. The one time I invaded Truk vs. the computer I simply embedded a lot of AMs in the amphib TFs. It was bloody, but I didn't suffer too many actual sinkings. Cheers, CC

LargeSlowTarget -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/18/2018 10:31:29 AM)
If I am not mistaken, DMS sweep the hex they are in and the six surrounding hexes. In theory, placing a DMS in a hex next to the enemy base hex should sweep mines without having the DMS actually entering the enemy base hex and triggering the CD guns. I have not tested this, in my ongoing game I managed to lose all DMS or have them convert to escorts "by accident", and Japan cannot create more DMS... In this context I have observed something odd in the duel between minesweepers and CD guns : quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TF 15 encounters mine field at Babar (76,117) - Coastal Guns Fire Back! 2 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships AM Wa 107, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage AM Wa 106, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage AM Wa 105, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 107 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 106 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 105 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 107 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 106 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 105 70 mines cleared -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TF 538 encounters mine field at Babar (76,117) - Coastal Guns Fire Back! 5 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships AMc Fumi Maru #5, Shell hits 3, heavy damage AMc Mogami Maru #3, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage AMc Sakaki Maru, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage AMc Naruo Maru #3, Shell hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage 2nd Air Advn Base Force firing at AMc Fumi Maru #5 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AMc Mogami Maru #3 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AMc Sakaki Maru 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AMc Naruo Maru #3 90 mines cleared 2 resp. 5 shells for 8 hits in each battle - those must be "magic shells" similar to that single bullet that hit President Kennedy and Governor Conally for a total of seven entry/exit wounds.

Barb -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/18/2018 11:24:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget If I am not mistaken, DMS sweep the hex they are in and the six surrounding hexes. In theory, placing a DMS in a hex next to the enemy base hex should sweep mines without having the DMS actually entering the enemy base hex and triggering the CD guns. I have not tested this, in my ongoing game I managed to lose all DMS or have them convert to escorts "by accident", and Japan cannot create more DMS... In this context I have observed something odd in the duel between minesweepers and CD guns : quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TF 15 encounters mine field at Babar (76,117) - Coastal Guns Fire Back! 2 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships AM Wa 107, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage AM Wa 106, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage AM Wa 105, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 107 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 106 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 105 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 107 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 106 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 105 70 mines cleared -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TF 538 encounters mine field at Babar (76,117) - Coastal Guns Fire Back! 5 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships AMc Fumi Maru #5, Shell hits 3, heavy damage AMc Mogami Maru #3, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage AMc Sakaki Maru, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage AMc Naruo Maru #3, Shell hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage 2nd Air Advn Base Force firing at AMc Fumi Maru #5 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AMc Mogami Maru #3 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AMc Sakaki Maru 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AMc Naruo Maru #3 90 mines cleared 2 resp. 5 shells for 8 hits in each battle - those must be "magic shells" similar to that single bullet that hit President Kennedy and Governor Conally for a total of seven entry/exit wounds. Theoretically possible, albeit less probable IRL. Imagine a flat trajectory weapon (like AT gun, or naval/DP rifle/gun) firing on targets rather close (or you would be using higher trajectory), with targets alligned (as Minesweepers could be in a V formation advancing towards shore). And the projectile is either AP (and so simply goes through) or dud HE hitting first Minesweeper, maybe even being deflected a little and continuing to the second Minesweeper in row. Hell of a "lucky" shot [:)] but probably not that effective IRL as opposed as to the direct hit by good "HE" shell...

Lokasenna -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/18/2018 5:49:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget If I am not mistaken, DMS sweep the hex they are in and the six surrounding hexes. That would be nutty precisely because it would allow this: quote: In theory, placing a DMS in a hex next to the enemy base hex should sweep mines without having the DMS actually entering the enemy base hex and triggering the CD guns. Which doesn't happen. You need to send your minesweepers to the actual minefield. quote: ORIGINAL: BillBrown A tactic you can try, is to make an Amphibious TF with only BBs and AMs in it and send it to the base first. As an Amphibious TF it will get close to the shore and trigger the minefield and hopefully the BBs will protect the AMs. This tactic might be seen as a bit 'gamey' but it is allowed by the code. They will encounter it, but they won't sweep it deliberately. So it's not exactly gamey as you're not actually gaining an advantage by doing this. Your BBs in such a setup will also be extremely vulnerable to SCTFs as they will only move at the maximum speed of the AMs. Bad juju.

BBfanboy -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/18/2018 7:14:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget If I am not mistaken, DMS sweep the hex they are in and the six surrounding hexes. In theory, placing a DMS in a hex next to the enemy base hex should sweep mines without having the DMS actually entering the enemy base hex and triggering the CD guns. I have not tested this, in my ongoing game I managed to lose all DMS or have them convert to escorts "by accident", and Japan cannot create more DMS... In this context I have observed something odd in the duel between minesweepers and CD guns : quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TF 15 encounters mine field at Babar (76,117) - Coastal Guns Fire Back! 2 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships AM Wa 107, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage AM Wa 106, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage AM Wa 105, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 107 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 106 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 105 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 107 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 106 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 105 70 mines cleared -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TF 538 encounters mine field at Babar (76,117) - Coastal Guns Fire Back! 5 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships AMc Fumi Maru #5, Shell hits 3, heavy damage AMc Mogami Maru #3, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage AMc Sakaki Maru, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage AMc Naruo Maru #3, Shell hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage 2nd Air Advn Base Force firing at AMc Fumi Maru #5 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AMc Mogami Maru #3 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AMc Sakaki Maru 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AMc Naruo Maru #3 90 mines cleared 2 resp. 5 shells for 8 hits in each battle - those must be "magic shells" similar to that single bullet that hit President Kennedy and Governor Conally for a total of seven entry/exit wounds. In this context, I suspect defensive fire is simply the Coastal guns replying to shots fired by the AMs. The initial shots fired AT the AMs and scored hits would be offensive gunfire. The Minesweeping TF commander wasn't merely offended, he was right miffed, and then outraged! [;)]

Mike Solli -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/18/2018 7:57:59 PM)
My opponent uses the one-shot YMS method. They enter the harbor, get destroyed by CD fire, and sweep some mines while sinking.

BillBrown -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/18/2018 8:03:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mike Solli My opponent uses the one-shot YMS method. They enter the harbor, get destroyed by CD fire, and sweep some mines while sinking. I tried that method at Truk, lost 8 AMs. I then just sent my amphib TF si with about 6 AMs in each, only hit onemine.

HansBolter -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/18/2018 8:39:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget If I am not mistaken, DMS sweep the hex they are in and the six surrounding hexes. In theory, placing a DMS in a hex next to the enemy base hex should sweep mines without having the DMS actually entering the enemy base hex and triggering the CD guns. I have not tested this, in my ongoing game I managed to lose all DMS or have them convert to escorts "by accident", and Japan cannot create more DMS... In this context I have observed something odd in the duel between minesweepers and CD guns : quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TF 15 encounters mine field at Babar (76,117) - Coastal Guns Fire Back! 2 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships AM Wa 107, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage AM Wa 106, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage AM Wa 105, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 107 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 106 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 105 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 107 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 106 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 105 70 mines cleared -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TF 538 encounters mine field at Babar (76,117) - Coastal Guns Fire Back! 5 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships AMc Fumi Maru #5, Shell hits 3, heavy damage AMc Mogami Maru #3, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage AMc Sakaki Maru, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage AMc Naruo Maru #3, Shell hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage 2nd Air Advn Base Force firing at AMc Fumi Maru #5 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AMc Mogami Maru #3 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AMc Sakaki Maru 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AMc Naruo Maru #3 90 mines cleared 2 resp. 5 shells for 8 hits in each battle - those must be "magic shells" similar to that single bullet that hit President Kennedy and Governor Conally for a total of seven entry/exit wounds. Accumulated damage over multiple turns from coastal gunfire also seems way out of sinc with naval gunfire damage. I have had thin skinned transport ships take 3-5 rounds of coastal gunfire per turn for 5-6 turns without sinking. If they took that many hits in a naval combat they would be visiting Davey Jone's locker. I realize some coastal gunfire is small caliber by naval gunfight standards, but something still seems fishy.

Dili -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/18/2018 8:48:51 PM)
It depends hat the word shot means in this context. Could be an unit of fire whatever that means in rounds fired in the game.

BBfanboy -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/18/2018 11:27:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HansBolter quote: ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget If I am not mistaken, DMS sweep the hex they are in and the six surrounding hexes. In theory, placing a DMS in a hex next to the enemy base hex should sweep mines without having the DMS actually entering the enemy base hex and triggering the CD guns. I have not tested this, in my ongoing game I managed to lose all DMS or have them convert to escorts "by accident", and Japan cannot create more DMS... In this context I have observed something odd in the duel between minesweepers and CD guns : quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TF 15 encounters mine field at Babar (76,117) - Coastal Guns Fire Back! 2 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships AM Wa 107, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage AM Wa 106, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage AM Wa 105, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 107 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 106 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 105 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 107 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 106 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AM Wa 105 70 mines cleared -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TF 538 encounters mine field at Babar (76,117) - Coastal Guns Fire Back! 5 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. Japanese Ships AMc Fumi Maru #5, Shell hits 3, heavy damage AMc Mogami Maru #3, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage AMc Sakaki Maru, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage AMc Naruo Maru #3, Shell hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage 2nd Air Advn Base Force firing at AMc Fumi Maru #5 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AMc Mogami Maru #3 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AMc Sakaki Maru 10th Marine Defense Battalion firing at AMc Naruo Maru #3 90 mines cleared 2 resp. 5 shells for 8 hits in each battle - those must be "magic shells" similar to that single bullet that hit President Kennedy and Governor Conally for a total of seven entry/exit wounds. Accumulated damage over multiple turns from coastal gunfire also seems way out of sinc with naval gunfire damage. I have had thin skinned transport ships take 3-5 rounds of coastal gunfire per turn for 5-6 turns without sinking. If they took that many hits in a naval combat they would be visiting Davey Jone's locker. I realize some coastal gunfire is small caliber by naval gunfight standards, but something still seems fishy. In my game vs. the AI I had some Japanese ships (DDs, AMs and PBs) enter Bataan hex and get shot up by the Fortress PLUS hit mines. The record was eight mine hits on one vessel and yes, the vessels went on to sweep hundreds of mines before the phase ended and the damage was applied to sink them. It is just a matter of the turn resolution steps where the IJ portion is resolved first (and results displayed in the animation) before the Allied side is resolved and only then are the results applied.

BBfanboy -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/18/2018 11:29:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dili It depends hat the word shot means in this context. Could be an unit of fire whatever that means in rounds fired in the game. That's a possibility I hadn't considered, but what would it mean if 67 defensive shots were fired? That is not an uncommon result when attacking a fortress/CD unit.

Dili -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/19/2018 1:32:42 AM)
Yep, another possibility to consider is it says coastal gun shots does it consider DP guns, tank guns, squads as coastal gun shots when they fire?

Lokasenna -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/19/2018 3:22:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Dili Yep, another possibility to consider is it says coastal gun shots does it consider DP guns, tank guns, squads as coastal gun shots when they fire? It considers whatever is firing back, so to Hans's "fishy" question - those shell hits could easily be from smaller artillery tubes that don't do much damage. The 75mm T90 Field Gun, for example, probably fires in coastal defense and is a relatively common weapon. It only has an effect rating of 14 and a penetration of 120. Even the smallest naval artillery has effect ratings of 50 or higher (although lower penetration but that's not going to matter against civvy ships).

Lokasenna -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/19/2018 3:23:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BillBrown quote: ORIGINAL: Mike Solli My opponent uses the one-shot YMS method. They enter the harbor, get destroyed by CD fire, and sweep some mines while sinking. I tried that method at Truk, lost 8 AMs. I then just sent my amphib TF si with about 6 AMs in each, only hit onemine. The YMS method is the best method, if you absolutely must clear the mines. They're 1 VP apiece and after the minefield is detected, it's not much use anyway. Especially if DMS/AM/YMS is embedded in the landing TFs. Note that DM's do not have explicit minesweeping capability. They lay mines, not sweep them.

LargeSlowTarget -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/19/2018 6:43:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna quote: ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget If I am not mistaken, DMS sweep the hex they are in and the six surrounding hexes. That would be nutty precisely because it would allow this: quote: In theory, placing a DMS in a hex next to the enemy base hex should sweep mines without having the DMS actually entering the enemy base hex and triggering the CD guns. Which doesn't happen. You need to send your minesweepers to the actual minefield. I agree it would be nutty, but the manual says: [image]local://upfiles/1313/4324A78FE9884F02B5B06D130E6655E0.jpg[/image]

Alfred -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/19/2018 9:56:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna quote: ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget If I am not mistaken, DMS sweep the hex they are in and the six surrounding hexes. That would be nutty precisely because it would allow this: quote: In theory, placing a DMS in a hex next to the enemy base hex should sweep mines without having the DMS actually entering the enemy base hex and triggering the CD guns. Which doesn't happen. You need to send your minesweepers to the actual minefield. I agree it would be nutty, but the manual says: [image]local://upfiles/1313/4324A78FE9884F02B5B06D130E6655E0.jpg[/image] There is some confusion here. 1. There are only 4 ship types in the game which are legitimate minesweepers. These are AM DMS YMS AMc These are the only ship types which sweep minefields. 2. Other ships types, basically escort types, may detect a mine and destroy it before it detonates against the ship but they will not sweep the minefield. Only the 4 ship types listed in point 1 above can sweep a minefield. 3. Any legitimate minesweeper (and to a far lesser extent those ship types of point 2) embedded in any TF may detect a mine during passage through a minefield. 4. A dedicated Minesweeper TF is the only efficient means to both detect and destroy (ie sweep a channel) a minefield. 5. Legitimate minesweepers in a Minesweeper TF will sweep the TF's destination hex and attempt to sweep the 6 surrounding hexes. No other TF mission (irrespective of whether it contains a legitimate minesweeper in the TF) will do this, even the Local Minesweeping TF only sweeps the destination hex. 6. Sweeping the adjacent 6 hexes is dependent on the Minesweeper TF's available OP. Depending on what other actions have consumed OPs only some of the adjacent hexes may be swept and these may not contain a minefield whereas a minefield may exist undetected in one of the adjacent unswept hexes. Alfred

BBfanboy -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/19/2018 2:48:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alfred quote: ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna quote: ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget If I am not mistaken, DMS sweep the hex they are in and the six surrounding hexes. That would be nutty precisely because it would allow this: quote: In theory, placing a DMS in a hex next to the enemy base hex should sweep mines without having the DMS actually entering the enemy base hex and triggering the CD guns. Which doesn't happen. You need to send your minesweepers to the actual minefield. I agree it would be nutty, but the manual says: [image]local://upfiles/1313/4324A78FE9884F02B5B06D130E6655E0.jpg[/image] There is some confusion here. 1. There are only 4 ship types in the game which are legitimate minesweepers. These are AM DMS YMS AMc These are the only ship types which sweep minefields. 2. Other ships types, basically escort types, may detect a mine and destroy it before it detonates against the ship but they will not sweep the minefield. Only the 4 ship types listed in point 1 above can sweep a minefield. 3. Any legitimate minesweeper (and to a far lesser extent those ship types of point 2) embedded in any TF may detect a mine during passage through a minefield. 4. A dedicated Minesweeper TF is the only efficient means to both detect and destroy (ie sweep a channel) a minefield. 5. Legitimate minesweepers in a Minesweeper TF will sweep the TF's destination hex and attempt to sweep the 6 surrounding hexes. No other TF mission (irrespective of whether it contains a legitimate minesweeper in the TF) will do this, even the Local Minesweeping TF only sweeps the destination hex. 6. Sweeping the adjacent 6 hexes is dependent on the Minesweeper TF's available OP. Depending on what other actions have consumed OPs only some of the adjacent hexes may be swept and these may not contain a minefield whereas a minefield may exist undetected in one of the adjacent unswept hexes. Alfred For the poster who thought the minesweepers might clear the six adjoining hexes without having to enter them, I think this is not so. I have seen my minesweepers react into a known minefield in an adjacent hex before I wanted them to go in (waiting for other TFs to arrive). I think the reaction type movement is what deals with the minefields in adjoining hexes, not some phantom sweeping. I suspect that the Minesweeping TF might model having a scouting ship go to the adjacent hex to see if there are mines because they seem to find the minefields, but when they start actually sweeping the whole TF moves into that hex.

Lowpe -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/19/2018 2:55:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alfred 6. Sweeping the adjacent 6 hexes is dependent on the Minesweeper TF's available OP. Depending on what other actions have consumed OPs only some of the adjacent hexes may be swept and these may not contain a minefield whereas a minefield may exist undetected in one of the adjacent unswept hexes. Alfred I have done this with DMS TF...set a destination hex, patrol hex, that is one hex away from a known minefield with CD guns. The following day (plenty of op points) the DMS TF entered the minefield hex and was savaged by the CD guns present. They didn't sweep the minefield from one hex away. Also, setting a distant range on a bombardment TF is used to eliminate the shorter range guns on the bombarding TF -- but the TF still bombards from 15K normally well within range of all CD guns and lots of DP guns. If you want your CD guns to counter a bombardment TF you need high DLs prior to the bombardment, plus good leadership, low disruption, high morale etc., etc. among the CD gun unit, restricted waters, straits and the direction of the bombarding TF really helps too. For example did the bombarding TF enter and then exit from different hexsides seems very important. The bombarding TF generally avoids the minefileds thanks to DL on the minefields, high experience, better Naval leaders on the ships and commanding the TF and perhaps even some of the statistics of the ship herself. Setting the bombardment range I don't think has any impact on avoiding minefields. What I don't know is if there is any crew experience or commander naval leadership impact on the sowed minefields. My guess is no, but I wouldn't bet surprised if one actually exists since each minefield sowed is a distinct unit based on TF originating it. Recon air missions are best at detecting minefields at little cost. Other more costly methods are sending in subs or surface ships. To sweep a hex of mines protected by CD guns your best best is to heavily bomb or bombard the hex to knock out the defending guns, reduce morale, raise disruption. Starvation works too.

Alfred -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/19/2018 3:06:59 PM)
Never set a Minesweeping TF to "patrol" status around a hex. Doing that resets its internal orders to transit passage discovery mine routine which is not efficient. Alfred

HansBolter -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/19/2018 5:09:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alfred Never set a Minesweeping TF to "patrol" status around a hex.� Doing that resets its internal orders to transit passage discovery mine routine which is not efficient. Alfred What about patrol status "in" a hex? I find this: "transit passage discovery mine routine" phrase confusing as I fail to grasp its meaning.. I routinely deploy a one or two ship AMc Coastal Minesweeping TF to patrol a one hex pattern as a component of standard port maintenance. I also deploy a one or two ship ASW TF to patrol a one hex pattern in the port hex as the other component of standard port maintenance. Is setting the AMc Coastal Minesweeping TF to a patrol order making it less efficient?

Lokasenna -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/19/2018 6:26:44 PM)
I've never seen minesweepers sweep anything from 1 hex away. I use destinations almost exclusively, with patrols only used by submarines and occasionally SCTFs when required. Just another thing to add the list of things to test.

Zorch -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/19/2018 6:41:21 PM)
I like mine sweeping. It is my friend (soojan). [image]local://upfiles/34241/0FAE90EC0A3941E6880D9328C5B78F81.jpg[/image]

Alfred -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/19/2018 7:58:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HansBolter quote: ORIGINAL: Alfred Never set a Minesweeping TF to "patrol" status around a hex.� Doing that resets its internal orders to transit passage discovery mine routine which is not efficient. Alfred What about patrol status "in" a hex? I find this: "transit passage discovery mine routine" phrase confusing as I fail to grasp its meaning.. I routinely deploy a one or two ship AMc Coastal Minesweeping TF to patrol a one hex pattern as a component of standard port maintenance. I also deploy a one or two ship ASW TF to patrol a one hex pattern in the port hex as the other component of standard port maintenance. Is setting the AMc Coastal Minesweeping TF to a patrol order making it less efficient? 1. There are 3 requirements in order to sweep a minefield. It is either a Minesweeping TF or a Local Minesweeping TF The TF contains legitimate minesweeping ships The TF is at it's destination An early patch changed Local Minesweeping TFs which did not have a destination set but were located at their home port, to default their "destination" to be their home port. 2. Moving from point A to point B does not trigger the sweeping algorithms on any hex transited through. 3. As mentioned in post #22, it is possible for any type of TF to detect a mine during transit but this does not call up the minesweeping code which specifically deals with clearing a channel through a minefield. Clearing a channel means setting the legitimate minesweeper ships to removing all the mines in the minefield. Various variables are factored into determining how many mines are swept in a turn. Clearing a channel allows non minesweeping TFs to remain in the hex otherwise their inclination is to skedaddle out of the hex. Detecting a mine and successfully destroying it during transit simply means one less mine in the minefield and therefore a corresponding decreased chance of a ship in the TF hitting any of the remaining mines. Alfred

rustysi -> RE: Minesweeping tactics (6/22/2018 5:47:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zorch I like mine sweeping. It is my friend (soojan). [image]local://upfiles/34241/0FAE90EC0A3941E6880D9328C5B78F81.jpg[/image] [8\|][:D]

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