Sudden high air loss reported

Sudden high air loss reported (Full Version)

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jwolf -> Sudden high air loss reported (7/5/2018 1:06:46 PM)
I'm playing a campaign against the Japanese AI, currently in September 1944. After the latest turn, the air losses all looked reasonable based on what happened that turn, except for one thing: a staggering number of Zeroes, variously reported as 1300 or 1700, listed as operations losses. Is this authentic? And if so, what could account for it?

BBfanboy -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/5/2018 2:57:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jwolf I'm playing a campaign against the Japanese AI, currently in September 1944. After the latest turn, the air losses all looked reasonable based on what happened that turn, except for one thing: a staggering number of Zeroes, variously reported as 1300 or 1700, listed as operations losses. Is this authentic? And if so, what could account for it? Those are huge numbers, but the AI might do things that a human player would not, like put virtually all of its Zeros on ships to move them somewhere, or fly them all into a base or two that you are about to take. Did you massacre any convoys or take any bases lately?

GetAssista -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/5/2018 3:11:59 PM)
AI always flies CAP at full extended range. Hence why

jwolf -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/5/2018 3:14:17 PM)
Negative to both. The only base that changed hands that turn was a dot base that flipped. Also when planes are lost at a base that falls, that is normally posted in the combat report for the attack that takes the base. Not sure about how planes in transit lost if a convoy is wiped out would be reported, but no such thing happened on that turn. The only Japanese ship lost was a tanker which sank during a surface battle. Edit: this was in response to BBfanboy above.

jwolf -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/5/2018 3:17:15 PM)
GetAssista: I could believe some losses because of that, but to this degree? Over a thousand planes in one day? [&:]

BBfanboy -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/5/2018 3:22:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jwolf GetAssista: I could believe some losses because of that, but to this degree? Over a thousand planes in one day? [&:] I have seen the AI send Zeros on an escort mission with bombers that were going far beyond the 14 hex range of a Zero with drop tanks. Those Zeros were ops losses but over 1000 in one turn seems unreal. Maybe there is a bug in the turn. Could that be a synch bug result? You won't know unless you can compare the Japanese and Allied combat reports from archives.

jwolf -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/5/2018 3:28:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy Could that be a synch bug result? I don't know about that -- I didn't know you could even have a sync bug in an AI game. But even after a sync bug turn, aren't the losses reported in the I screen correct, up to FOW?

jwolf -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/5/2018 3:30:56 PM)
FWIW, the only Zeroes that were even involved in any reported action that day were a few Zeroes damaged or destroyed during a naval bombardment of Takao.

BBfanboy -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/5/2018 3:39:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jwolf FWIW, the only Zeroes that were even involved in any reported action that day were a few Zeroes damaged or destroyed during a naval bombardment of Takao. Bombardment losses are always ground losses.

GetAssista -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/5/2018 3:43:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jwolf GetAssista: I could believe some losses because of that, but to this degree? Over a thousand planes in one day? [&:] Where is your screenshot? Until that I'm inclined to think you mixed day and campaign losses Or maybe there was a massed disbanding of airgroups with subsequent lossses of airframes. My experience though is that AI does not disband/withdraw units and does not suffer pp penalties

rustysi -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/5/2018 4:33:51 PM)
There is a mass Japanese naval air disbandment sometime in '44. Could that have something to do with it?

jwolf -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/5/2018 4:35:29 PM)
I'll post a screenshot from home once I get there. It will be several hours from now, though.

witpqs -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/5/2018 4:59:12 PM)
[8\|] The answer is obvious: they were produced with the wrong paint scheme and had to be scrapped.

BBfanboy -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/5/2018 5:11:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs [8\|] The answer is obvious: they were produced with the wrong paint scheme and had to be scrapped. Either that or M&M industries "appropriated" them to sell to a South American country and just "made a mistake" on the paperwork describing how the aircraft disappeared - "long range training flight over water, failed to return." [;)]

MakeeLearn -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/5/2018 5:19:50 PM)
Try ROGAINE�.

MakeeLearn -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/5/2018 5:22:08 PM)
Stock Scenario? Probably a mathematical glitch.

jwolf -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/5/2018 5:26:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn Stock Scenario? Probably a mathematical glitch. Correct, it is stock. AI is at hard difficulty FWIW.

MakeeLearn -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/5/2018 5:30:41 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jwolf quote: ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn Stock Scenario? Probably a mathematical glitch. Correct, it is stock. AI is at hard difficulty FWIW. If those losses are real, it should noticeable in the following turns unless it restocked.

inqistor -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/5/2018 8:25:15 PM)
What types of ZEROs? Maybe this could be automatic scrapping, of no longer used old airframes? Have you closed any airfields? Probably by Naval Bombard, as they would intercept your bombers, and you will see them. It may be, that they were unable to land on closed airfield?

rockmedic109 -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/5/2018 9:00:39 PM)
Kamikazes sent beyond the range they could return from?

jwolf -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/5/2018 10:55:16 PM)
Here is a screenshot of the intel screen showing the high number of Japanese op losses for the turn. [image]local://upfiles/47024/94681E57C6F24750B56F6C7BB3E24052.jpg[/image]

jwolf -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/5/2018 10:57:00 PM)
Continuing, here is the detail on the "aircraft losses" report showing a somewhat larger, presumably inflated number of A6M5b lost to ops for the turn. [image]local://upfiles/47024/A289B23922894202AF9AB2E72DFE9DE4.jpg[/image]

jwolf -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/5/2018 11:02:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: inqistor What types of ZEROs? Maybe this could be automatic scrapping, of no longer used old airframes? Have you closed any airfields? Probably by Naval Bombard, as they would intercept your bombers, and you will see them. It may be, that they were unable to land on closed airfield? They were A6M5b, by this time a bit old but not way out of date, I think. It is true that I bombarded Takao that night, with a strong RN surface fleet. Is it really possible that the AI tried to fly 1000 Zeroes during the day to an airfield they knew was badly damaged? [&:]

Lokasenna -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/6/2018 12:30:25 AM)
My guess is that it was unit fragments with damaged planes disbanded, perhaps at a high number of scattered bases - wouldn't the A6M5c be available about this time?

GetAssista -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/6/2018 1:08:16 PM)
There are 2 airgroups that withdraw at Sep 20, 44 in stock 1 scenario, but they are both Mavis/Emily patrols. The culling of IJNAF happens earlier, in April-July. If you have earlier saves available you can load them as Japan (with AI set to Allies) and look through the list of airgroups. Maybe one of them ended up with a bloated reserves airframes by some glitch and had to ditch them all when disbanding a fragment.

wegman58 -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/6/2018 1:26:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jwolf Continuing, here is the detail on the "aircraft losses" report showing a somewhat larger, presumably inflated number of A6M5b lost to ops for the turn. [image]local://upfiles/47024/A289B23922894202AF9AB2E72DFE9DE4.jpg[/image] Something very odd. You have 1744 OPS today, but 1245 Ops for the campaign.

jwolf -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/6/2018 1:38:16 PM)
quote: Something very odd. You have 1744 OPS today, but 1245 Ops for the campaign. I've always figured the daily numbers are inflated due to FOW or just plain BS. The cumulative data are -- I think -- more accurate although possibly still exaggerated. Maybe someone with more experience can correct me.

Lokasenna -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/6/2018 3:35:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GetAssista There are 2 airgroups that withdraw at Sep 20, 44 in stock 1 scenario, but they are both Mavis/Emily patrols. The culling of IJNAF happens earlier, in April-July. If you have earlier saves available you can load them as Japan (with AI set to Allies) and look through the list of airgroups. Maybe one of them ended up with a bloated reserves airframes by some glitch and had to ditch them all when disbanding a fragment. Unit fragments disbanded so that the AI could upgrade the units to a new plane.

Yaab -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/8/2018 7:14:10 AM)
1744 Zero ops losses for today 1245 Zero ops losses in the campaign 1422 Japanese total losses for today WTF, code overflow?

BBfanboy -> RE: Sudden high air loss reported (7/8/2018 11:12:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Yaab 1744 Zero ops losses for today 1245 Zero ops losses in the campaign 1422 Japanese total losses for today WTF, code overflow? Divide by Zero error![:D]

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