RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (Full Version)

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El Condoro -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (7/1/2019 10:48:25 PM)

New game started: Fafnir (Axis) vs. El Condoro (Allies).



Ktonos -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (7/2/2019 2:07:54 PM)

Game ended Ktonos (Allies) vs El Condoro (Axis), Allied victory late 1944



nnason -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (7/3/2019 8:35:17 PM)

ELO tournament update. We have 37 players (although many are not active) and 93 finished games. I think we have 7 or 8 active games.

As a side note, a 4way game of SC3 WaW is just started. We are working out the bugs. Our method would work for WiE.



nnason -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (7/3/2019 8:37:43 PM)

Ktonos, What are you proposing for a change to the tournament?



Sugar -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (7/3/2019 9:12:56 PM)

I guess it`s time to end this tourney and start a new one, perhaps someone could spend some goodies for the winner the next time, hehe.

I find these tourneys very valuable for the balancing, Fafnir seems to have figured out a way to shorten the Axis` road to victory.

Again many greetings and thx to nnason for his fantastic work!



El Condoro -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (7/3/2019 9:28:36 PM)

The last game has been recorded as my victory but it was Ktonos who won that game.

I would love to see an ongoing ladder where playing the top players gives points even if the game was lost. I used to play PzG2 at a club with such a ladder and it was fascinating to watch as new players rose and the top players fought out to get No 1. It also means games 'mean something' and there is incentive to complete them while giving a tangible reward.

As for a formula, I have no idea except that winning against a higher ranked player is worth more but losing against a lower ranked player does not penalise the higher ranked player too much, otherwise they might not want to play the new ones.



Ktonos -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (7/4/2019 2:38:40 PM)

I would propose that firstly the ELO rating stand.

For a tourney my idea is that we
1. See who wants to play and commits to finish a game within 2 months
2. Then break the field into groups of 4 or 3 people, based on their ELO standing. These will groups will form small "leagues"
3. Each group will go into a round robin playing with each other mirror matches.
4. The winner of a group advances to the upper category. The last player relegated to the previous one

For example: As the ELO standings are the "Top League" would consist of Sugar, Fafnir and KZ. The second league of Rannug, LLv34mika and me. And so on. If Fafnir wins his league he is declared winner for the season. If KZ is last he is relegated to league B next season. In league B if Rannug tops it he plays in the first league with Sugar and Fafnir next season, and if I go last I am relegated to league B.

I think it needs players to be true to their word and it will be a bit harder for whoever organizes it, but we will have all games being competitive while at the same time players are guaranteed they will play different players next season.



Taxman66 -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (7/4/2019 3:55:31 PM)

I don't think I can commit to playing simultaneous mirror games.



El Condoro -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (7/4/2019 10:55:21 PM)

Can the PBEM++ server be mined for data? It might be useful for ranking if the actual turn number on which a game ended is available.

The concern I have with a tournament broken into leagues is that the pool of available players is severely restricted. As Taxman66 says above, not all players are available for games or can play at the same pace. I think the table needs to be open to all players with a minimum number of turns (10?) needed to be played for the game to count. That way, if a game is a clear fizzer (like my first game against Ktonos!) it can be aborted without anyone being penalised in their ranking.



Ktonos -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (7/4/2019 11:03:10 PM)

It was just an idea. I'm sure people will pop up with their own ideas and we will pick something. I just believe that the ELO ranking is kind of underwhelming for a tourney. It is very useful, and it should stand regardless of tourneys in progress.

Regarding too many games though, a tourney, any tourney, will have far more games than one game per player. It can't be otherwise because then it wouldn't be a tourney would it? Just a thought. What a I propose has 4 games per player. It could drop to 2 games if there is no mirror game and lets say that the lower ELO player can choose the side.

In any case, just an idea, I am simply brainstorming here.



El Condoro -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (7/4/2019 11:26:26 PM)

Understand. I forgot the 'rule' of brainstorming - never say nay. :) I really like the idea of a tournament ranking system, though, and would like to see one introduced. That said, it does require administration and that can be time consuming. Thanks to nnason for the work done to date.



gronivaure -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (7/6/2019 6:17:23 AM)

Tourney match ended: Gronivaure(Axis) vs Gilber(Allies). Axis victory summer 1941.



nnason -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (7/8/2019 10:05:41 PM)

All,
The good news is the above discussion caused me to review the ELO model. The bad news is the model may have an error which is resulting in some players not getting the credit they deserve for winning against higher level players. I'll get back in a couple of days on my research.
Noah



Ktonos -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (7/11/2019 2:18:09 AM)

Game started Ktonos (Axis) vs Gilber (Allies)



Rannug61 -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (7/20/2019 7:34:20 AM)

Game over Rannug (Allies) vs El Condoro (Axis), Allied victory August 1944



Gilber -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (7/20/2019 4:17:19 PM)

Game finished, Ktonos (Axis) vs Gilber (Allies). Axis victory may 42



Fafnir -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (7/21/2019 9:36:44 PM)

Game finished: Fafnir (Axis) vs. El Condoro (Allies). Axis victory summer 43.



Ktonos -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (7/22/2019 4:39:11 PM)

I am up for tourney or friendly games, I currently have only two games in my queue. Between 3 August - 16 August I will be in summer vacation, probably unable to play, but other than that I can play 1-3 turns per day



Fafnir -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (7/26/2019 8:14:47 PM)

Game finished: Fafnir (Axis) vs. Ktonos (Allies). Axis victory fall 43.



Rannug61 -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (7/26/2019 9:42:48 PM)

As Ktonos is one of the better players it would be fun to get some info on how the game against Fafnir developed...



nnason -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (7/29/2019 11:34:26 PM)

Here are some interesting statistics as of July 3rd 2019. Sorry about the formating.

...................Total
Allies Axis Allied, Axis Total_ Win_ %, # Games %
Games Rate Played
Amadeus 0 Amadeus 0 0 0 2 0.00% 2.06%
Azhraden 1 1 0 1 100.00% 1.03%
Bolko 0 Bolko 0 0 0 7 0.00% 7.22%
Bolko 0
Bolko 0
Bolko 0
Bolko 0
Bolko 0
BPINisBack 0 BPINisBack 0 3 1 7 57.14% 7.22%
BPINisBack 1 BPINisBACK 0
BPINisBack 1 BPINisBack 1
BPINisBack 1
bullet912 0 bullet912 0 0 0 2 0.00% 2.06%
DavidFaust 0 DavidFaust 0 0 0 3 0.00% 3.09%
DavidFaust 0
Dmondragon75 1 3 0 5 60.00% 5.15%
Dmondragon75 0
Dmondragon75 1
Dmondragon75 0
Dmondragon75 1
Elcondoro 1
Elcondoro 0 Elcondoro 0 0 0 6 0.00% 6.19%
Elcondoro 0 Elcondoro 0
Elvcondoro 0
Elveranomaslargo 1 Elveranomaslargo 1 1 3 6 66.67% 6.19%
Elveranomaslargo 0 Elveranomaslargo 1
Elveranomaslargo 0 Elveranomaslargo 1
Etzel 1 Etzel 1 1 2 3 100.00% 3.09%
Etzel 1
Fafnir 1 Fafnir 1 2 8 10 100.00% 10.31%
Fafnir 1 Fafnir 1
Fafnir 1
Fafnir 1
Fafnir 1
Fafnir 1
Fafnir 1
Fafnir 1
Gilber 0 0 0 4 0.00% 4.12%
Gilber 0
Gilber 0
Giovanni705 1 0 1 1 100.00% 1.03%
guggy 0 0 0 1 1.03%
HamburgerMeat 1 2 0 4 50.00% 4.12%
HamburgerMeat 0
HamburgerMeat 0
Hartmann301 1 Hartmann301 1 1 3 8 50.00% 8.25%
Hartmann301 0
Hartmann301 1
Hartmann301 0
Hartmann301 0
Hartmann301 1
Hartmann301 0
Hberg 1 1 0 2 50.00% 2.06%
Hiberg 0
IrishGuards 1 IrishGuards 0 2 2 7 57.14% 7.22%
Irishguards 0 IrishGuards 0
IrishGuards 1 IrishGuards 1
IrishGuards 1
Ironclad 0 0 0 1 0.00% 1.03%
Javichu 0 Javichu 1 0 1 2 50.00% 2.06%
Jeff_Ahl 0 0 0 2 0.00% 2.06%
Jeff_Ahl 0
johanssb 1 1 0 1 100.00% 1.03%
Ktonos 0 Ktonos 0 7 4 15 73.33% 15.46%
Ktonos 1 Ktonos 1
Ktonos 1 Ktonos 1
Ktonos 0 Ktonos 0
Ktonos 1 Ktonos 1
Ktonos 1 Ktonos 1
Ktonos 1
Ktonos 1
Ktonos 1
KZ 1 KZ 1 3 3 7 85.71% 7.22%
KZ 1 KZ 1
KZ 0 KZ 1
KZ 1
LLv34Mika 1 LLv33Mika 0 2 2 7 57.14% 7.22%
LLv34Mika 0 LLv34Mika 0
LLv34Mika 1 LLv34Mika 1
LLv34Mika 1
Markiss 0 Markiss 1 0 1 11 9.09% 11.34%
Markiss 0 Markiss 0
Markiss 0 Markiss 0
Markiss 0
Markiss 0
Markiss 0
Markiss 0
Markiss 0
MrLongLeg 1 2 0 4 50.00% 4.12%
MrLongLeg 0
MrLongLeg 0
MrLongLeg 1
nnason 0 nnason 0 0 2 10 20.00% 10.31%
nnason 0 nnason 0
nnason 1
nnason 0
nnason 0
nnason 0
nnason 0
nnason 1
pig100 1 0 1 1 100.00% 1.03%
PJL1973 0 0 0 7 0.00% 7.22%
PJL1973 0
PJL1973 0
PJL1973 0
PJL1973 0
PJL1973 0
PJL1973 0
Rannug61 1 Rannug61 0 7 6 19 68.42% 19.59%
Rannug61 1 Rannug61 0
Rannug61 1 Rannug61 1
Rannug61 0 Rannug61 1
Rannug61 1 Rannug61 1
Rannug61 1 Rannug61 0
Rannug61 1 Rannug61 0
Rannug61 1 Rannug61 1
Rannug61 0 Rannug61 1
Rannug61 1
roon 1 roon 1 2 1 4 75.00% 4.12%
Roon 1 roon 0
SaulGoodman 1 SalGoodman 1 1 1 2 100.00% 2.06%
Sillyflower 1 1 0 1 100.00% 1.03%
Sugar 1 Sugar 1 2 6 9 88.89% 9.28%
Sugar 1 Sugar 1
Sugar 1
Sugar 1
Sugar 1
Sugar 1
Sugar 0
Taxman66 1 Taxman66 1 1 1 5 40.00% 5.15%
Taxman66 0
Taxman66 0
Taxman66 0
YohanTM 1 YohanTM 0 1 1 7 28.57% 7.22%
YohanTM 0 YohanTM 1
YohanTM 0
YohanTM 0
YohanTM 0

47 50 47 50 97 100.00%




nnason -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (7/29/2019 11:37:11 PM)

All I found a math error in the ELO model which didn't take into account in all cases when someone won against a tough player. Such a game should have given more that 15 points but in some cases, it didn't. I think I have fixed this error. If anyone finds errors in what I have done please let me know. I can adjust the model to give even more credit for beating hard players.




nnason -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (7/30/2019 12:29:24 AM)

Some more interesting Statistics as of July 3rd, 2019
Win Rate Percent Games Played ELO RANK
Azhraden 100.00% 1.03%
Etzel 100.00% 3.09%
Fafnir 100.00% 10.31% 1
Giovanni705 100.00% 1.03%
johanssb 100.00% 1.03%
pig100 100.00% 1.03%
SaulGoodman 100.00% 2.06%
Sillyflower 100.00% 1.03%
Sugar 88.89% 9.28% 3
KZ 85.71% 7.22% 5
roon 75.00% 4.12%
Ktonos 73.33% 15.46% 2
Rannug61 68.42% 19.59% 4
Elveranomaslargo 66.67% 6.19%
Dmondragon75 60.00% 5.15%
BPINisBack 57.14% 7.22%
IrishGuards 57.14% 7.22%
LLv34Mika 57.14% 7.22%
HamburgerMeat 50.00% 4.12%
Hartmann301 50.00% 8.25%
Hberg 50.00% 2.06%
Javichu 50.00% 2.06%
MrLongLeg 50.00% 4.12%
Taxman66 40.00% 5.15%
YohanTM 28.57% 7.22%
nnason 20.00% 10.31%
Markiss 9.09% 11.34%
Amadeus 0.00% 2.06%
Bolko 0.00% 7.22%
bullet912 0.00% 2.06%
DavidFaust 0.00% 3.09%
Elcondoro 0.00% 6.19%
Gilber 0.00% 4.12%
Ironclad 0.00% 1.03%
Jeff_Ahl 0.00% 2.06%
PJL1973 0.00% 7.22%



gronivaure -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (7/31/2019 1:27:28 PM)

Game finished: gronivaure (Axis) vs BPINisBack (Allies). Axis victory 27 july 1945.



Gilber -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (8/1/2019 11:29:38 AM)

Game finished: Elcondoro(Axis) vs Gilber (Allies). allies victory spring 1945



Gilber -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (8/1/2019 11:36:56 AM)

I'm up for a game.
Axis player wanted.
I can offer 1 or more turn almost every day.
send PM if interrested



Etzel -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (8/1/2019 4:10:53 PM)

Tourney match ended: Etzel(Axis) vs Dario Stolfa(Allies). Axis victory October 1942.



BPINisBACK -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (8/2/2019 3:40:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: gronivaure

Game finished: gronivaure (Axis) vs BPINisBack (Allies). Axis victory 27 july 1945.



Congratulations!!!
You deserve the victory!!



Fafnir -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (8/6/2019 9:59:48 AM)

Game started Fafnir (Axis) vs Gilber (Allies)



BPINisBACK -> RE: OFFICIAL Strategic Cmd ELO Tourney (8/15/2019 5:13:46 PM)

Game started BPINisBACK (Axis) vs Gilber (Allies)



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