How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (Full Version)

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Goodmongo -> How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (10/23/2018 4:10:13 PM)

I don't really have many answers but instead I've decided to see what others will do. I've gone through a list of average MPP's available, options to spend it on and a few other things. Where I think its a good strategy I'll mention that otherwise I list out the options.

So it's turn one September 3rd. As Germany I sell back the research chits in Anti-Tank, Advanced Subs, Artillery and Rockets. This will net 299 MPP giving Germany a total of 349. I use 200 MPP to research industry. For Italy I sell back logistics and have 160 MPP. I also purchase Industry for Italy for 125 MPP leaving 35 MPP.

Now before going further what you do will depend on when you plan to attack the Low Countries and France. May 6th is the usual start date as weather might impact things before then. So this is decision number one.

1) When do you actually attack Low Countries and France. May 6th, before then or after?

This is a critical decision IMO because it greatly influences the amount of time you have to build things and have them ready to actually fight. For example you would have to build planes by T3 (October 3rd) to have them placed on the map in April and therefore be ready for combat at the start of May.

I will go with a May 6th start for this analysis.

Poland must be taken in two turns and I think this is pretty easy to do unless you have terrible luck. On turn two you collect 230 MPP as Germany (average) and 69-72 as Italy. Italy then gets 72 MPP for each follow-up turn. There no time constraint to build anything on T2 as Germany and for it to be ready by May 6th.

Now a decision is available to get the Para's early and 50 MPP. I used to pass this but now always take it. I lose 2 MPP in reinforcements but it gives me 50 MPP now vs. the 52 later. Plus I now can try for Denmark in 1939. More on that later.

So defeating Poland nets about 380 plunder and you received about 244 MPP for the start of T3. This is the October 3rd turn and the last turn to buy planes for the May 6th start. If you only spent MPP on the industry as Germany you should have 1055 MPP available to spend.

Decision two is what MPP should you now spend on T3 and maybe on T2 if you want to diplo Spain or do research. If you want 1 adv fighter, and 2 +1grd atk bombers (tac or medium your choice) that will end up costing 892 MPP leaving you 163 MPP. I do not upgrade or reinforce before spring 1940 as MPP's are too precious in 1939.

Also you have to ask a follow on question of how many tanks you want on May 6th. Two advanced tanks will cost 524 MPP and must be purchased by T5 (November 16th) to be ready. You get on average about 480 MPP but I've seen this as low as 460. That means you really have about 119 MPP that could be spent on things in addition to planes on T3.

There is another decision on MPP. On T2 do you operate the para division (str 5) to be close to Denmark. You are looking for a DOW and invasion on T4 if you operate else you have to wait till T6 and risk the weather. I've seen it rain/snow all the way till March 1940 in some games but I tend to wait and not spend the MPP's to operate the para. On T3 the rest of the units are moving back to the western fron but I leave a medium bomber and a tac bomber within range of Denmark's capital.

Decision three: Have you spent any MPP on diplomacy or other research or have you just bought the planes and tanks? Plus do you use MPP for a faster Denmark capture or wait another turn and risk the weather?

The last big question is getting the HQ Manstein. This will cost 399 MPP without mobility (which I don't buy anyway and use operate where necessary). It also must be purchased by T7 (December 30th) to arrive on March 29th. Anything later means it misses the May 6th start.

Here is a summary of MPP and spending through T7 if you go with the above plans:

Start 50 + 299 resell chits - 200 industry + 230 (T2) + 380 Plunder Poland + 244 (T3) - 892 planes + 50 Early Para + 242 (T4) + 230 (T5) - 524 tanks + 240 (T6) + 240 (T7) - 399 HQ = 199 MPP available. You might also get 50 more MPP in plunder from Denmark by now if you had one turn of clear weather.

The question is do you want 1 ftr, 2 bombers, 1 HQ and 1 IND tech before the start of May 6th attacks leaving you about 199 MPP to do other things by the end of 1939?

You get about 214-216 MPP a turn on T8 (February 10th) and T9 (March 23rd) but will need to upgrade existing planes, armies and reinforce any losses you have.

The last thing for Germany is what to do with the decisions. I say no to the CV. 25 MPP's per turn right now is a bad choice. I now also say no to Norway with takes a whopping 90 MPP for two turns. Denmark no longer appears because we already captured it so that saves 50 MPP plus we are getting some MPP.

Doing the above means most research and/or diplomacy doesn't start till 1940. Plus you still have lot's of more builds to do to get ahead of the DAK decision.

For Italy the choice is either to reinforce all existing units or to do research. I tend to reinforce and then when they join the Axis go for diplomacy. The only research I do is the 125 MPP's for industry. I also skip the spying for Italy but this can be risky.

So what are your decisions and choices?



Ktonos -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (10/24/2018 6:20:04 AM)

Imho this seems extremely "max early Mpp" oriented, to the point that it causes problems down the road.

Para gives you 50mpps but there is no emergency to have him that early, it will cost more to refit him and if you let him train comes at +1xp. Finally it stops you from breaking the built limit of 2 and having 3 paras in the field.

Sell Advanced Subs? With the intention to start on it later or to not ever get down researching subs? The former means double the cost for longer research. The latter is disarming half of the axis threat in Sea.

I always say yes to Norway & Denmark and the amendment of the Norway convoys a turn later. Saving the decision Mpps aren't even a fraction of what Axis gets from Norway, the convoys, while the ports in the North Sea are perfect to raid the English-Ussr lend lease. Only reason to reject it is to hold US mobilization a bit low, but this isn't nearly enough.

And all those cuts for what return? To take a couple of units more for invading France? You just need what you have on the field and queued in production to do that anyways. A unit of tanks, a mech and the 3rd paras before may 1940 are well within the German Mpp production capabilities.




LLv34Mika -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (10/24/2018 1:37:00 PM)

I don't sell the advanced subs... they are making the subs really stronger and sooner or later my subs make a little sortie and hunting with a few subs can easily bring down a carrier or battleship. I think that's worth it. Hunting ships on the convoy lines is also nice and sometime a destroyer may try to sink your sub... sinking a lonely destroyer with two or three subs is also funny.

I'm not even sure if selling the artillery chit is a good idea. They can do a great job when it comes to demoralization and de-entrenchment. Sometimes really worth the money.

Since my first investments are diplo chits it is not soooooo important. It gives the UK maybe one free turn but that's it. Many players prefer other things too. The British need so many things soon. AA guns, more fighters, advanced fighters, command & control, Montgomery, more ground units... buying some spain chits might come in turn one but it is also possible in turn two or three.



Goodmongo -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (10/24/2018 2:52:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ktonos

Imho this seems extremely "max early Mpp" oriented, to the point that it causes problems down the road.

Para gives you 50mpps but there is no emergency to have him that early, it will cost more to refit him and if you let him train comes at +1xp. Finally it stops you from breaking the built limit of 2 and having 3 paras in the field.

Sell Advanced Subs? With the intention to start on it later or to not ever get down researching subs? The former means double the cost for longer research. The latter is disarming half of the axis threat in Sea.

I always say yes to Norway & Denmark and the amendment of the Norway convoys a turn later. Saving the decision Mpps aren't even a fraction of what Axis gets from Norway, the convoys, while the ports in the North Sea are perfect to raid the English-Ussr lend lease. Only reason to reject it is to hold US mobilization a bit low, but this isn't nearly enough.

And all those cuts for what return? To take a couple of units more for invading France? You just need what you have on the field and queued in production to do that anyways. A unit of tanks, a mech and the 3rd paras before may 1940 are well within the German Mpp production capabilities.


Yes reinforcing the Para does coust you 2 extra MPP. But you get the MPP's from Denmark starting in 1939 for 2-3 turns. That and not spending the 50 MPP on the Denmark decision means you are way ahead in MPP by taking the Para early.

As for Advanced Subs I get them but I start the research in 1940. I seldom do too much using the ships till after Spain takes Gibraltar and then combine the Italian and German navies together.

As for the Norway convoys you get those MPP's regardless. The only difference is the decision to move the route, which if you do means less MPP's overall. So why spend 180 MPP's in April 1940 for a couple garrison units and two beat up corps?

You had an incorrect premise in that you somehow don't get the convoy MPP's if you don't invade.

The idea of getting the much larger air force and tanks is to take the Low Countries and France in three turns. And if possible maybe even start those attacks in April. But the plan listed out a May 6th start.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LLv34Mika
I'm not even sure if selling the artillery chit is a good idea. They can do a great job when it comes to demoralization and de-entrenchment. Sometimes really worth the money.


But you don't have an artillery unit to take advantage of that. DAK and then Barbarossa is the first time it would be of use.



Ktonos -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (10/24/2018 9:08:49 PM)

Yes, but you must amend the convoy rout or it will never give you anything as the Allies will easily and constantly raid the total income from it. For at least up to when raiding it will get Norway close to 85% Axis leaning. Which will take 2 years at least. So you can expect these convoys to be at 0 for years. And if you don't capture Norway, you can't amend the convoys.

Also, is the convoy everything Norway gives? If you occupy the country doesn't it give half it's resources in Mpps? If not, then I guess it's an ok decision coupled with US mobilization bonus. If you lose the resources in Norway, then it is a problem refusing the decision.

Regarding Para, ok, you are right cost wise, but the most important aspect of delaying it, is that you can immediately buy 1 Para, which means that when invading France Germany fields 3 of them. There isn't another opportunity to break this cap, only by choosing to delay the first one. 3 Paras are 1. extremely helpful ofcourse, 2. Make the perceived threat of the Allied player of a Sea Lion very high and ofcourse 3. makes a potential Sea Lion much more possible to succeed.



Sugar -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (10/24/2018 10:45:27 PM)

Instead of taking the para you could also use a corps as an amphib. The experience point is worth much more than those MPPs. DoWing Denmark should also increase income, first from plunder and second from Kopenhagen staying an occupied capital worth 2x8 instead of 10 MPPs (at least in the predecessor this has been the case).

A 3. para is only usefull in case of a Sealion, otherwise it's really redundant imho. Usually any of my opponents wasted them in suicidal attacks, and if it`s gone, it's gone.

Doesn`t really make a difference to amend the convoy route, there are too many opportunities to cut the line otherwise than raiding.




Goodmongo -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (10/25/2018 5:30:31 PM)

Yea using a unit to amphib attack makes even better sense. You can do that on turn three by using the garrison unit and 1-2 bombers coming back from Poland. This nets you the MPP 1-2 turns sooner and saves you a couple MPP for the Para. The only downside is you have 50 fewer MPP on T2 to play with.

BTW I like my bombers getting the experience point instead of a corps so I let them get the kill. I try to focus the kills to first be allocated to bombers, then tanks, armies and then corps.

As for the Norway convoys being raided I don't see much difference between invading Norway or not. If you move the line you have fewer MPP's due to winter rules and UK still raids it. The big difference is in playing a human they might try to invade Norway themselves. The AI not so much.



Sugar -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (10/26/2018 5:25:07 PM)

There's no additional bonus for eliminating an enemy unit anymore, like in the predecessor. Well trained corps are the backbone of the Wehrmacht, and they`re the cheapest units to reduce entrenchement in case the lack of bombers or arty.




Goodmongo -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (10/28/2018 6:36:07 PM)

I'm on version 1.15 and still see the +200 for a kill. I can't recall if this happens on a bomber kill as those are actually rare. However, I have 2 TAC's that are level 12 in a current game so somehow they got the XP.



Sugar -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (10/28/2018 7:05:02 PM)

The shown +200 are not xp, but nm-points for destroying ships and or units on low supply (depending on their costs).

Under "advanced options" you may deselect "unit xp medals", then xp is shown in numbers. There's no difference between a fight with or without killing an enemy unit, both gain 0.15 xp. Units gain xp by fighting (units with double attacks gain half the xp/attack).

Since it's no difference to kill units xp-wise, you may choose the order of your attacks depending on the tactical benefits. Every morale and/or entrenchement reducing attack should be choosen first, since it's making the following attacks more efficient/less sufficient. In case you can't prevent losses during the first attacks (if you`re observing the prediction) it's best to choose the cheapest units to attack first.

To gain and keep xp it`s best to reinforce/overstrength units asap.



nnason -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (10/28/2018 7:39:39 PM)

And HQs gain xp-points by being in on any attack? How much do they gain/attack?



Sugar -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (10/28/2018 8:47:19 PM)

Don't know how much, but they'll have to win fights, i.e. inflicting more damage than receiving afaik. Sometimes a draw is also able to increase xp. In case you want to avoid the loss of xp for your HQ, you may deattach the unit losing the prediction. No issue, if your HQs match the numbers of units your fielding and you chose the "Auto-Assist" mode, but especially during the early stages of war it`s best to micromanage your HQs.



Dorky8 -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (10/28/2018 9:58:55 PM)

Suagr

Hows the game going against Fafnir?



Sugar -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (10/28/2018 10:48:16 PM)

As bad as expected.



Markiss -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (10/29/2018 12:14:53 PM)

You will always be our champion, Sugar. [&o]

If he pulls this one out, give him a taste of your Axis and get revenge. [;)]



Hartmann301 -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (11/6/2018 11:21:29 AM)

So chits for Spain should be bought in the first few turns? I'm usually going for industrial tech, Manstein HQ and one tank in those first months.



Goodmongo -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (11/6/2018 4:17:58 PM)

The HQ has a short build time so it can actually wait till 12/30/1939 turn and still arrive on 3/29/1940.



ThunderLizard11 -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (11/7/2018 1:56:15 PM)

I attack the low countries much earlier - February or March depending on weather. I start moving 2 of the HQs back from Poland T1 and move some army/corp units back as well. You should knock out France no later than June.



Goodmongo -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (11/9/2018 8:04:08 PM)

I also attack them ASAP. But that is 100% dependent on weather. You are not guaranteed decent weather till the May 6th turn. Besides it only takes one turn to get the three low countries. Even if you have to wait till May 6th France will still easily fall before end of June 1940.



Sugar -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (11/9/2018 9:07:11 PM)

I doubt somebody being able to guarantee a victory in June 40 against a capable opponent by starting in May, and DoWing Belgium has its downsides as well.



Hartmann301 -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (11/10/2018 1:19:52 PM)

9 times out of 10 the weather in April 40 will be good. At least that's my experience with it.



Goodmongo -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (11/13/2018 2:09:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sugar

I doubt somebody being able to guarantee a victory in June 40 against a capable opponent by starting in May, and DoWing Belgium has its downsides as well.


Never claimed this was a player vs. player game.



Sugar -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (11/13/2018 8:13:22 PM)

Hehe, who needs guides to fight the AI?



Dorky8 -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (11/13/2018 9:59:43 PM)

Thats not nice Sugar say you are sorry



Sugar -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (11/14/2018 2:26:43 AM)

Sugar is not nihice, Sugar is not nihice.

But sweet.

Seriously, fighting the AI or humans are two pair of shoes. Better to make clear what to talk about.



nnason -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (11/14/2018 11:26:26 AM)

The Sugar War Machine is not so sweat or nice to all those poor defeated opponents.

Sugar, I completely agree about the AI. Fighting the AI compared to a human is like a Toyota compared to a Jaguar.

The AI does OK tactically for ground warfare. It sucks for naval warfare. It doesn't handle strategic surprises well. For my part I learned most of the mechanics playing many games against the AI but I am still trying to unlearn many bad habits I adopted/learned while playing against the AI. You can be sloppy against the AI not so against a competent human.



Goodmongo -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (11/14/2018 4:05:32 PM)

My original post had nothing to do with grand tactics, naval combat or strategic surprises. It was all about MPP and production timelines. And that IMO has little to do if you are playing against AI or Human.



Sugar -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (11/14/2018 4:32:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodmongo

My original post had nothing to do with grand tactics, naval combat or strategic surprises. It was all about MPP and production timelines. And that IMO has little to do if you are playing against AI or Human.


It has everything to do with it. What and when I'm buying, researching or influencing follows my own strategy and that of my opponent as well.

The main difference being the numbers of units. The AI has lots of them, human opponents don't. Accordingly you'll need more units against the AI to cover more space, but not necessarily the same quality, types, or research lvls, if you're keeping xp up.



Hartmann301 -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (11/16/2018 2:52:02 PM)

Are strategic bombers something the Axis should buy during this period of the game?



Goodmongo -> RE: How To Play Axis In 1939-1940 (11/16/2018 3:33:38 PM)

I never do as I want the medium and tactical bombers first. These destroy units which is the main goal of the Axis. So for me tanks, medium bombers, tactical bombers, fighters, HQ's, Mech units and corps are priority.



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