New patch in the works (Full Version)

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simovitch -> New patch in the works (11/19/2018 12:27:31 AM)

The new dev team has been working on a new patch. Emphasis on fixing the oil/fuel bug, game balance, and improving the axis AI.
Progress so far has been good with several major bugs and data errors ironed out.
Some of you know already about the oil/fuel bug. It's true, it is borked. In BTR Oil has nothing to due with aviation fuel, the push-pull routines sometimes counter each other out, and the axis are awash in fuel and oil such that it is impossible to cause a shortage before the game ends.

This has been fixed and we are testing and massaging it to make it a viable strategy for the allies, and punish them if they ignore it.
Sleepy axis AI squadrons in Bulgaria has been fixed, now Ploesti will be defended and ready for the allied bombers.
hundreds of 88mm FlaK 41 guns otherwise sitting in factories, the AI will now distribute these to the axis air defense batteries.

Stay tuned.



nelmsm1 -> RE: New patch in the works (11/19/2018 1:08:49 AM)

So glad to see this!



cohimbra -> RE: New patch in the works (11/19/2018 4:39:19 AM)

I'm tuned [&o]



Templer_12 -> RE: New patch in the works (11/19/2018 9:28:38 AM)

Great News



davidjruss -> RE: New patch in the works (11/20/2018 4:21:44 PM)

Many thanks for the info



cohimbra -> RE: New patch in the works (11/23/2018 11:27:55 PM)

And what about Jg 300, 301 & 302 issue? Don't know if this is the right place to speak about this, anyway...as far I know Jg 300, 301 & 302 should upgrade their night fighters Bf 109G-6/U4N & Fw 190A-5/U2 to respectively fighters Bf 109G-14/R6 (07/44) & Fw 190A-8/R8 (01/44). But this doesn't happens because there's no Bf 109G-14/R6 nor Fw 190A-8/R8 pools because they are Bf 190G-14 & Fw 190A-8 extra cannon variants (and only this two last model have their a/c pool). Soooo...maybe is it possible to point this two upgrade paths to the right direction?

Bf 109G-6/U4N upgrade to Bf 109G-14 (instead of /R6 variant) in 07/44
Fw 190A-5/U2 upgrade to Fw 190A-8 (instead of /R8 variant) in 01/44

It can be nice to have some more fighters at the front in '44 hot days.
If this is already addressed in latest patches or if it's impossible to fix I apologize with you guys, but I haven't the time to play intensively right now. Keep up the good work!



Zorch -> RE: New patch in the works (11/24/2018 3:24:25 AM)

A patch is great...but we really need 'Ace's Edition' of this game.



simovitch -> RE: New patch in the works (11/24/2018 3:37:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cohimbra

And what about Jg 300, 301 & 302 issue? Don't know if this is the right place to speak about this, anyway...as far I know Jg 300, 301 & 302 should upgrade their night fighters Bf 109G-6/U4N & Fw 190A-5/U2 to respectively fighters Bf 109G-14/R6 (07/44) & Fw 190A-8/R8 (01/44). But this doesn't happens because there's no Bf 109G-14/R6 nor Fw 190A-8/R8 pools because they are Bf 190G-14 & Fw 190A-8 extra cannon variants (and only this two last model have their a/c pool). Soooo...maybe is it possible to point this two upgrade paths to the right direction?

Bf 109G-6/U4N upgrade to Bf 109G-14 (instead of /R6 variant) in 07/44
Fw 190A-5/U2 upgrade to Fw 190A-8 (instead of /R8 variant) in 01/44

It can be nice to have some more fighters at the front in '44 hot days.
If this is already addressed in latest patches or if it's impossible to fix I apologize with you guys, but I haven't the time to play intensively right now. Keep up the good work!


Actually it looks like there should be no upgrades for the nightfighter Bf109G-6 or the Fw 190A-5 at all, since upgrading to the G-14 and A-8 would lose the "nightfighter" class for these aircraft, as does the current upgrade to the cannon models.

So the fact that they were looking for upgrades which had no planes kept them as nightfighters and thus working properly.[8|] What makes more sense is to upgrade to the TA154 and/or later model He219, or Me110 etc although historically it looks like those Groups didn't upgrade to anything.



Denniss -> RE: New patch in the works (11/24/2018 7:05:52 PM)

After "Wilde Sau" was more or less given up in early 44 the JG300 units were changed to day fighter role.
There should be an .exe-induced change switching these units to day fighter role by transforming the Bf 109/Fw 190 night fighters into their respective day fighter version. This would require to limit these units flying Bf 109/Fw 190 night fighters only



Zorch -> RE: New patch in the works (11/24/2018 7:39:26 PM)

The 'Suggestions for future patches' thread has a list of fixes/enhancements. Should we be adding to that thread (although it is 5 years old)?



simovitch -> RE: New patch in the works (11/25/2018 12:57:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch

The 'Suggestions for future patches' thread has a list of fixes/enhancements. Should we be adding to that thread (although it is 5 years old)?

Yes, since more or less we are referring to that thread. Just don't duplicate a request or ask for graphic enhancements...

@denniss: thanks, then we should upgrade as cohimbra suggests.



Denniss -> RE: New patch in the works (11/25/2018 8:46:05 AM)

you just need to ensure only the JG 300 units would be eligible for using 109/190 as night fighters or one may misuse this upgrade and change all night fighters to day fighters.



simovitch -> RE: New patch in the works (11/26/2018 12:08:46 AM)

Finally fixed the code so that Rimini City and airfield remain in German hands behind the Gothic line.

[image]local://upfiles/19728/330D4162B8374B679F64E6DE91024860.jpg[/image]



warshipbuilder -> RE: New patch in the works (11/26/2018 12:08:52 AM)

You have tread to very carefully when you start messing with the a/c upgrade paths. What makes sense on the surface may not translate in to the practical, and cause other unintended upgrade problems for other units.



simovitch -> RE: New patch in the works (11/26/2018 4:32:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: warshipbuilder

You have tread to very carefully when you start messing with the a/c upgrade paths. What makes sense on the surface may not translate in to the practical, and cause other unintended upgrade problems for other units.

Right, and I see the potential exploit that Denniss mentions if they upgrade to day fighters. I think a final upgrade of these Bf109 and FW190 night fighters to the TA 154 (or nothing) is innocuous enough.



Denniss -> RE: New patch in the works (11/26/2018 5:37:42 PM)

Isn't it possible to use a hardcoded .exe-induced change that transforms the JG 300 units and its Bf 109/Fw190 aircraft to day fighters? Would still require a change to limit the use of Bf 109/Fw 190 NFs to these units. All pool and factories need to transform as well.



simovitch -> RE: New patch in the works (11/26/2018 6:05:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss

Isn't it possible to use a hardcoded .exe-induced change that transforms the JG 300 units and its Bf 109/Fw190 aircraft to day fighters? Would still require a change to limit the use of Bf 109/Fw 190 NFs to these units. All pool and factories need to transform as well.

Yes, it's possible, but this isn't high on the priority list. We are having a little trouble getting the code to override the data pulled from the data files (trying to fix the Jet Age scenario) but once we break through that obstacle (and we will) it will get easier.



simovitch -> RE: New patch in the works (12/16/2018 7:07:47 PM)

A quick update on the patch development.
1. Variable moonlight now corresponds to actual phases of the moon relative to sunrise/sunset. I can't believe I never appreciated how messed up that was. Testing shows a fair impact on how the Nachtjagd plays out.
2. 'Top pilots' view now shows days until return to service for WIA veterans.
3. Much improved response from Luftwaffe units in Balkans "Sud Ost" groups.
4. Hundreds of 88mm FlaK 41 now distributed by AI from AA pools to home defense. AI code didn't recognize them before.
5. Map now recenters only when an event falls outside of the current view. The frenetic screen jumping is greatly reduced, especially for BoB and the smaller scenarios.
6. A fair bit of scenario rebalancing. As a minimum benchmark the defending AI should beat the attacking AI in most cases.
7. Fixed a bug where the random number generator was always producing the same sequence of numbers and not re-seeding. This impacts anything that is randomly set at the start of the scenario, and possibly some other effects. If you have ever watched the attacking AI you may have noticed that it always used the same "Strategy" number (Strategy=2 in most scenarios). Now you will see he likelyhood of each game using a different strategy of target selection by the AI attacker! The code was there but never used. Other random effects like at-start damage, cloud cover, and aircraft readiness will make each game a bit different from the last.
8. Reworked the Fuel-Oil economy routines. Shortages are now much more likely to occur with a dedicated fuel/oil campaign. Both players will be notified when the shortage is in effect, but only the defender will see just how bad it is. beside fuel to fly airplanes, shortages impact the delivery of replacements to ground units leading to greater ability to break the defensive lines.
10. fixed the Jet Age '44 scenario. Me 262's now come on with a vengeance at start, with the AI doing a good job of integration into the Luftwaffe. A silly little bug was causing them to be overlooked for early development.

11. Other minor UI and bug fixes effecting the weather, night bombing and priority target selection are being tested. No AI cheats are being introduced, just adding some smarts and removing some dumbs.

We are hoping to get this wrapped up and available in a month or 2, depending on Alberto's RL workload.



nelmsm1 -> RE: New patch in the works (12/16/2018 8:14:57 PM)

Really looking forward to this. Thanks for continuing to work on it.



joey -> RE: New patch in the works (1/18/2019 6:51:48 PM)

I love the idea of a patch for such a great game. I thank all involved in this process.
I do have one question. Will there be any improvement the Allied AI in BTR? I like to play the Germans in BTR. I would love a beefed up AI to play against.



simovitch -> RE: New patch in the works (1/19/2019 9:39:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joey

I love the idea of a patch for such a great game. I thank all involved in this process.
I do have one question. Will there be any improvement the Allied AI in BTR? I like to play the Germans in BTR. I would love a beefed up AI to play against.


Night operations by Bomber Command will be stepped up a bit, and you will see more variation in Allied AI strategy thanks to Alberto fixing a bug with the initial random number seeding. But other than that the Allied AI in BTR is fairly robust and not much was done this go around.

The Luftwaffe in BoB needs serious help and is the main focus of AI overhauling.



joey -> RE: New patch in the works (1/20/2019 4:36:26 PM)

Thanks for the update, and I appreciate all your work. I am looking forward to this update!



simovitch -> RE: New patch in the works (1/28/2019 12:03:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Denniss

you just need to ensure only the JG 300 units would be eligible for using 109/190 as night fighters or one may misuse this upgrade and change all night fighters to day fighters.

OK I've added some code to allow the S/E Wilde Sau fighter types to convert to day fighters sometime in march 1944. The Wilde Sau groups can not change to other nightfighter types, nor can other nightfighter goups change to S/E Wilde Sau fighters.



Tejszd -> RE: New patch in the works (1/28/2019 3:08:53 AM)

Thank you for all the effort on patching this older title!



joey -> RE: New patch in the works (1/28/2019 3:25:39 PM)

I am really looking forward to this patch. I thank you all for your efforts.



BigDuke66 -> RE: New patch in the works (1/30/2019 9:32:23 PM)

Are there any plans to adjust & improve the database?
Not sure if something or anything at all was used from this thread:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3431670
but it seems a pity if this wouldn't be utilized.



simovitch -> RE: New patch in the works (1/31/2019 9:45:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

Are there any plans to adjust & improve the database?
Not sure if something or anything at all was used from this thread:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3431670
but it seems a pity if this wouldn't be utilized.


Reading through that thread is like reading through the minutes of a City Council administrative committee agenda item where nothing is really decided on. A/C data is a slippery slope and I would only trust a recommendation from someone who is familiar with the AI, combat and upgrade code, and/or how the code interprets the A/C data (Denniss, TaggedYa, Creeper, and maybe Turner and warshipbuilder).

Slightly OT but we have found several errors where the code was trying to upgrade, change, or otherwise edit aircraft ID numbers that had long since been changed at the request of well-intended, albeit misinformed data folks who did not understand the code or by coders who did not understand the data structure. Alberto and I have also eliminated thousands of unnecessary loop cycles (which should manifest as better performance during initialization and AI processing) caused by the same data/coding disconnect. Not to take away from the absolutely brilliant efforts by the coders before us, mind you, but without the BtR and BoB data spreadsheet in front of me and an understanding of how it is structured it would be very difficult to do much in the way of coding the AI or other functions.

Anyway, there you have it.[:)]



CaptCarnage -> RE: New patch in the works (2/3/2019 7:26:55 PM)

Wonderful, I am excited!

Will there be a savegame data export possibility for Excel as there once was, for more convenient message reading?



boogabooga -> RE: New patch in the works (2/3/2019 9:04:56 PM)

I'm glad to hear that a new patch is in the works. Here are a few of my suggestions:

-Allow a victorious player to decline the victory and play on, if they wish.
-More target filtering on the planning map. Especially a filter by industry type is really needed, IMHO.
-Variable operational strength. Let the player adjust how many sorties per mission a unit will conduct versus what gets held back. For example, a group sends out 40 bombers instead of 36 or 30 fighters instead of the usual 48.
-Try to incorporate intermediate units (Fliergerkorps, Divison, RAF BTR Group). Perhaps assign an entire Division to a target in one button press the same way way that you now would assign individual groups or squadrons.
-Some sort of category system for the defending side to make sure exhausted units are not scrambled.
-Get the players permission before upgrade units to new type.
-The separate "fighter bomber" category needs to be re-examined in BTR because it limits historical upgrade options. Virtually ALL of the allied fighter units were fighter bombers. The only exception that I can think of is the mosquito whose pilots may have had a bomber crew background. But A-36 units should be able to upgrade to P-47s, Typhoon units to Tempests, etc. as they did historically. And related to that:
-Allow the ability to switch between the ground attack loadouts and extra fuel tanks (or fighter vs fighter-bomber mode) for all fighter types, as currently only some types (P-38 P-47, etc.) allow.

Also, are there any plans to add any new new shorter duration (1 week to 1 month) campaigns?



warshipbuilder -> RE: New patch in the works (2/4/2019 2:43:55 AM)

"Allow a victorious player to decline the victory and play on, if they wish."

Are you related to Bomber Harris?

"Variable operational strength. Let the player adjust how many sorties per mission a unit will conduct versus what gets held back. For example, a group sends out 40 bombers instead of 36 or 30 fighters instead of the usual 48."

So you want even more micro-management?

"Typhoon units to Tempests"

They already do.

"Allow the ability to switch between the ground attack loadouts and extra fuel tanks"

Try War in the West, Pointblank Directive or Weakest Link scenarios. Not BTR, but you have lots of different aircraft and in some cases 3 loadout options. BTR data base isn't able to handle it. If I do one I would have to them all and crash goes the game. I have experimented and was able to do all the Spitfires with no ill effects. But for play balance and fairness you would have to do most/all of the aircraft and it just doesn't work.

"Also, are there any plans to add any new new shorter duration (1 week to 1 month) campaigns?"

No.

Some of your other ideas have merit and could be do-able. Simovitch will be able to speak to those better than I can.



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