RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (Full Version)

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Canoerebel -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/4/2019 5:18:59 PM)

5/24/42 to 5/28/42

Philippines: The tattered remnant of the Allied army at Bataan - 33 units - surrendered today. I didn't do a good job of handling supply to Luzon but the garrison nevertheless held out much longer than I'd have expected even had I done an excellent job.

Elsewhere: Things look exactly the same as for the last major update, about 10 turns back. Of course, there's probably all kinds of major activity going on underneath the hood, as Dave prepares to do something somewhere or somewheres.



Uncivil Engineer -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/4/2019 6:30:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

5/24/42 to 5/28/42

Philippines: The tattered remnant of the Allied army at Bataan - 33 units - surrendered today. I didn't do a good job of handling supply to Luzon Neither did MacArthur but the garrison nevertheless held out much longer than I'd have expected even had I done an excellent job.

Elsewhere: Things look exactly the same as for the last major update, about 10 turns back. Of course, there's probably all kinds of major activity going on underneath the hood, as Dave prepares to do something somewhere or somewheres.





RangerJoe -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/4/2019 7:22:36 PM)

Yes, MacArthur could have loaded trains with supplies and put them on the rail line on Bataan but did not do so.

The problem with the previous post is that I did not see the problem for Japan - other than the date.



Canoerebel -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/5/2019 1:06:08 PM)

The problem was that Dave brought to Bataan the entire army that had vanquished Clark Field. He only needed a modest portion. He could've sent a division or two and a lot of the artillery on to new pastures, giving them a two-week head start.



Canoerebel -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/5/2019 1:12:10 PM)

5/29/42 to 6/1/42

China: No change in the MLR. There are new stirrings. I think Dave is gathering forces to push in the southern (Liuchow to Changsha) sector. I haven't seen new units around Sian, though that sector is still of chief concern.

Burma: Two enemy divisions pushed 1st Burma Division and a rag-tag assortment of supporting units out of Katha, doing bad things to them. So the Allies will be pushed out of upper Burma within a few weeks.

Bay of Bengal: I'm not sure KB is still in this region, but that's my working hunch. DS remains posted at Colombo. If he comes for Ceylon with anything other than full KB, I might fight for it (not on the ground but giving naval opposition).

Singapore: No enemy attacks since March 31. SigInt shows troops and HQs prepping. Supply at 108k and dropping steadily, but somewhat slowly due to the 30 or so subs that are part of the bucket brigade from Colombo. Would it be worth it to upgrade the Indian divisions to '42 combat squads? How much supply does that take for a full division?

The Vast Pacific: No real signs of enemy stirrings anywhere from the Aleutians to Australia. I'm still working the little strengthening/reinforcing efforts, but nothing major is going on.




Bif1961 -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/5/2019 3:33:25 PM)

Not the Indian divisions in Singapore as they will eventually die and take all those squads with them. Better to wait after they die and you buy them back out or have a remnant that you can start to fill out with the 42 squads.



Canoerebel -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/5/2019 3:55:15 PM)

That makes sense. Thanks.



USSAmerica -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/5/2019 4:04:42 PM)

Dan, keep in mind that when you upgrade inf squads, the "old" squads are returned to the pool as upgraded squads. So, in Singers, your Ind Inf squads could upgrade to Ind Inf 42 squads (assuming you have enough 42 squads on your pool) without actually reducing the number of 42 squads in the pool. From this angle, you're not losing anything when your forces finally are defeated here, but you might make it a bit harder on Japan.

Supply is the part of the question I can't answer while I'm away from my game. Not sure if there is any supply cost to upgrade the squads and what it might be.



Canoerebel -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/5/2019 4:10:33 PM)

It's going to take time to wrap my head around this. So, if I upgrade an Indian division that has '41 squads to '42 squads, the '41 squads go into the pool as '42 squads? Is that right? That would be good to know (how come I don't know so many things after playing this game 217 years?)

The supply cost is what's preventing from doing this, so if any peanut gallerians or lurkers know, please chime in.



Lokasenna -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/5/2019 7:09:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

It's going to take time to wrap my head around this. So, if I upgrade an Indian division that has '41 squads to '42 squads, the '41 squads go into the pool as '42 squads? Is that right? That would be good to know (how come I don't know so many things after playing this game 217 years?)

The supply cost is what's preventing from doing this, so if any peanut gallerians or lurkers know, please chime in.



They may actually go into the pool was '41 squads, but they will upgrade/switch to '42 squads eventually. Usually happens fairly quickly, actually.



RangerJoe -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/5/2019 9:30:51 PM)

quote:

8.11 SQUAD UPGRADES
When Type 23 and 24 devices (squad and combat engineer squads) are upgraded from the
pool, the squads of the previous type that are returned to the pool are automatically upgraded
to the current type and placed into the pool. E.g. the trained manpower is retained and re
armed to the latest standard.


From the WITP-Manual-[LIGHT].pdf but who knows if changes have been made.

quote:

16.4.1 GROUND UNIT WEAPON UPGRADES
Ground units may have their individual weapons elements (i.e. infantry squads, artillery, etc.)
upgraded to newer elements as they become available if they are available in the replacement
pool or can be produced by the Japanese production system. An example of this is an Allied
unit with a 37mm AT gun will attempt to upgrade it to a 57mm AT gun when there are enough
in the replacement pool. Another example is the basic USA Rifle Squad will upgrade beginning
in July 1942 (gaining some additional firepower). In fact, the USA Rifle Squad will upgrade two
additional times during the war.

As with replacements, the unit must have access to a nearby base with supplies in order to
receive an upgrade. When upgrades are performed, they remove all of the elements of a single
weapon’s element (i.e. all 37mm AT guns or all USA Rifle Squads) in a ground unit, placing
these back in the replacement pool (both disabled and ready squads). An equal number of new
elements are placed in the unit in the same condition as the elements removed (i.e. 6 ready
and 4 disabled 37mm AT guns will be replaced with 6 ready and 4 disabled 57mm AT guns,
while 10 37mm AT guns will be added to the replacement pool).

When production is turned On for the Japanese player, any infantry and/or engineer squads
that are upgraded will not be returned to the pool. Instead a number of points equal to the load
costs of the units replaced will be added to the manpower pool.

Upgrades occur automatically and cannot be stopped from happening as long as sufficient new
items are in the pool and the unit has access to sufficient supplies.





erstad -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/6/2019 1:58:13 AM)

quote:

From the WITP-Manual-[LIGHT].pdf but who knows if changes have been made.


IIRC (Never certain...) michaelm changed this behavior in one of the patches as he thought it was buggy but changed it back after folks pointed out it was a specific design intent. I have a vague recollection of tracking down some AndyMac post that described how this worked to support the WAD argument.

My experience is it works as described for squads.



CaptBeefheart -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/6/2019 2:21:19 AM)

I always assumed there was no actual supply expenditure during the upgrade process (and RangerJoe's helpful excerpts don't mention supply costs). You might try an Indian brigade and see if there's any noticeable drop in the supply level. If I recall correctly, in stock there's a pretty big jump in stats from '41 to '42 for Indian infantry.

Cheers,
CB



RangerJoe -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/6/2019 4:08:51 AM)

I did not see any reference to supply costs but lacking any other information, I would presume that the cost for updating a device might be the cost of the device. That is, if you upgrade a 2 pounder AT gun to a 6 pounder, then the cost is for a 6 pounder but I did not see anything in the manual.



Canoerebel -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/6/2019 3:16:22 PM)

I think there is a supply coast to upgrade devices, but I'm the guy who thinks cold zone goes into effect on December 1 and that subs can withdraw at Pearl Harbor.



Canoerebel -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/6/2019 3:20:43 PM)

6/2/42 to 6/6/42

No obvious changes on the map. The MLR in China remains static, the Allies are being pushed out/withdrawing from Burma, Dave is putting together his assault on Singapore, and the friendly portions of the Pacific are quite.

Singapore: Imperial Guards Division took Port Blair a few weeks ago. SigInt then revealed that it was prepping for Singers. Now it's located at Georgetown. Probably Dave won't launch his next attack until he's satisfied with prep and with the force on hand.

Supply at Singers, currently 106k, is dropping slowly. The bucket brigade (subs carrying supply) is helping, though at a cost. Today some DDs sank a USN sub. The cost is worth it. :)



[image]local://upfiles/8143/2C9ED120F5074FE2B897C99727D3B1F0.jpg[/image]



BillBrown -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/6/2019 3:23:30 PM)

I am pretty sure there is a supply cost to have squads upgrade and that is why it is hard to get the Chinese go upgrade.
Logically, there should be a supply cost since you are upgrading the equipment.



Canoerebel -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/6/2019 3:31:52 PM)

6/6/42

The Long March: Is this actually going to work?



[image]local://upfiles/8143/0126D28BA30247019F89C93E882F7575.jpg[/image]



RangerJoe -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/6/2019 3:54:27 PM)

The theme song of the 6th Australian division is now "Over the hills and through the woods . . . " [8|]

If you get the units to Chinese bases, fly out the infantry and have the vehicles drive through the jungle.



Canoerebel -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/6/2019 5:20:08 PM)

That's a good idea.



anarchyintheuk -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/6/2019 7:20:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

I am pretty sure there is a supply cost to have squads upgrade and that is why it is hard to get the Chinese go upgrade.
Logically, there should be a supply cost since you are upgrading the equipment.


In an effort to make things more confusing . . . I don't remember a supply cost to squad upgrades. Would assume that BB knows more than me.



Lokasenna -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/6/2019 9:53:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk


quote:

ORIGINAL: BillBrown

I am pretty sure there is a supply cost to have squads upgrade and that is why it is hard to get the Chinese go upgrade.
Logically, there should be a supply cost since you are upgrading the equipment.


In an effort to make things more confusing . . . I don't remember a supply cost to squad upgrades. Would assume that BB knows more than me.


I forget if it actually consumes supplies, but you must have more than 2x supply at the base (IIRC) in order for the upgrades to happen.



Anachro -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/6/2019 10:04:18 PM)

The manual says upgrades work like replacements for ground units and replacements require 2x as Lok states.

[image]https://i.imgur.com/MBBsBSH.png[/image]

[image]https://i.imgur.com/LV9BnQs.png[/image]



Canoerebel -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/6/2019 10:28:37 PM)

I can't tell from that if supplies are expended in the upgrade process or if they instead need only be present in the threshold amount to qualify the upgrade, but that the upgrade is then made without drawing down on supply.




Canoerebel -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/7/2019 1:05:46 PM)

6/6/42 to 6/11/42

The two most significant developments:

Wenchow: One of the two Japanese divisions late at Clark Field and Bataan shows up today - making an amphibious landing at Wenchow. The unit suffers fairly serious disablements. Why invade? Why not land at Shanghai or vicinity and trek this way overland? Dave might have wanted to see if triggering an auto bombardment was effective. It turned out not to be.

DEI: BB Kongo and friends sighted just east of Lautem. SigInt reports a unit inbound to Darwin. A few Allied subs will close in. I withdrew most of the Aussie troops a month ago due to serious supply issues.


[image]local://upfiles/8143/0477041EC20E42E28225632B3A6C7435.jpg[/image]



Lecivius -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/7/2019 2:55:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I can't tell from that if supplies are expended in the upgrade process or if they instead need only be present in the threshold amount to qualify the upgrade, but that the upgrade is then made without drawing down on supply.




As I recall, the supplies need to be present, but are not expended. So, since I said that, it won't be true [8D]



Canoerebel -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/7/2019 2:59:40 PM)

Man, I know that feeling!



Canoerebel -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/7/2019 4:22:45 PM)

At Wenchow, perhaps Dave's amphibious assault is to trigger the autobombardment so that it'll eat into Allied supply levels.



HansBolter -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/7/2019 5:16:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

At Wenchow, perhaps Dave's amphibious assault is to trigger the autobombardment so that it'll eat into Allied supply levels.



I wouldn't bet on that being the reason, unless he is unaware that the base generates its own supply.

My take on his reason is speed. The quickest way to attack it with troops redeploying from the PI is to take them straight to the target.



Canoerebel -> RE: Intellectus Ex Nihilo (Wal-Mart on Ice) (3/7/2019 8:09:08 PM)

6/12/15 to 6/14/15

Confirmation today that a fourth enemy AO sank near Midway around December 11, 1942.

That little op worked perfectly but didn't work perfectly! Lex was badly damaged (by sub torpedo) near Wake, so I ordered her to make straight for KB, which I hoped would be sprinting north. And it worked! The two passed in the night unobserved and Lex continued south. At that time, Ent slipped around from the north, found and engaged KB's replenishment TF, and sank for of the big buggers. Yet, somehow, Dave still managed enough fuel to send KB on high speed runs. Then he split KB, with one half making further high speed runs. He went the wrong way...but at the very last instant, suddenly steered them right. He finished of Lex way down near Pago Pago after an epic pursuit that lasted ten days.

Alot of good things came of that affair, but I think I'd still take it all back if I could have Lex back. Losing her at the end was pure agony.




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