Carriers won't launch (Full Version)

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John B. -> Carriers won't launch (1/23/2019 7:32:37 PM)

I am so frustrated. This has happened to me several times in this game where my carriers are close to US ships and don't launch any airstrikes at them at all. Here, US TF with 4 DDs is in the middle of three of my CV TFs. No strikes. that means 6 times in this turn (3 in the am 3 in the pm) no strikes at all were launched. You can see that two of my best CV TF commanders are in charge. carriers are at 90%+ fuel and munitions. No reports of US carriers anywhere on the map. Nearest US base is 19 hexes away. Land based Nells did attack from 15 hexes away. US DDs sailed to near shanghai and back and are at 9/10 detection level.

Two turns ago the CVs did not launch any attacks against a BB TF where, again, there were no US carriers reported.

This has happened to me at least twice at other times in this game.

What do I need to do to get Japanese carriers to even launch any planes. It can't be a some low odds thing to have happen. I have never had US carriers near any of my ships where they have not launched at least one airstrike in a day.

What am I doing wrong? How do I get the Japanese to fight especially when everything is in their favor?

[image]local://upfiles/39741/B6D129ED70574AF4A4B9A6249654B2FE.jpg[/image]



rustysi -> RE: Carriers won't launch (1/23/2019 7:40:03 PM)

Do you play with advanced weather on?

Weather is one possibility. I keep the weather on during the turn so I can see what's happening.

There're many reasons for what you describe, although I would think less so with the BB's.

Don't know what else to say at this point.



Canoerebel -> RE: Carriers won't launch (1/23/2019 7:43:14 PM)

There could be many reasons for the failure. The most likely is that weather shut down air ops in your carriers' hexes or in the target hex.

There are other reasons a carrier may not launch, such as when the carriers are above aircraft capacity (probably not an issue in your case) or when, as you note, the commanders have low aggression ratings.

In this case, you're probably better off that there weren't any strikes. Hitting destroyers is an iffy proposition, so that you'll often expend sorties and lose aircraf to flak and ops while achieving less-than-stellar results.





Canoerebel -> RE: Carriers won't launch (1/23/2019 7:44:25 PM)

Also check to make sure your aircraft squadrons were set to a range greater than six. I'm sure they were...but if not, that would be the reason for your vexations. :)



John B. -> RE: Carriers won't launch (1/23/2019 9:39:32 PM)

Canoe Rebel I checked. The Dive Bombers are at 7 and the torpedo planes are at 12. The weather was light overcast in the hex with the two CV TFs and clear in the hex with the one CV. Light rain was in the hex with the DDs but it did not stop the Nells from attacking. AA is always a concern with DDs but they have been fighting for a couple of days and I suspect that they are low on AA ammo. None of my carriers are in the red for above capaicy but two are in the orange. Sigh.



John B. -> RE: Carriers won't launch (1/24/2019 12:38:55 AM)

Another turn in range with no launch. 11 hexes and my torpedo bombers are set to 12 hexes. Weather was fine, the Nells went in again.

[image]local://upfiles/39741/63331EDCBBA34112B64F69241E1338B0.jpg[/image]



John B. -> RE: Carriers won't launch (1/24/2019 12:50:39 AM)

Here is one of the squadrons that does not launch, day after day. Good leader, experienced, in range, no fatigue.

[image]local://upfiles/39741/1D77CA1B0022413C848BD46BF3BA586F.jpg[/image]



Canoerebel -> RE: Carriers won't launch (1/24/2019 1:13:01 AM)

Are any of your naval squadrons partially set on "Search"? If not, that could be part of the problem. Carrier squadrons will sometimes (often) attack ships within range if detection is provided by LBA, but the chances of sortying go up if the naval squadrons themselves (or sister squadrons on carriers in the TF) get detection. (I think that's true, anyhow.)

The good news is: The game isn't broken. Carrier flight ops work perfectly fine. There are hundreds of us that have played many thousands of games over the past ten years. We know there's no issue with the code. What's happening to you is either random chance, weather, or some issue with some setting somewhere.



John B. -> RE: Carriers won't launch (1/24/2019 1:18:47 AM)

I have two squadrons set on search on my carrier TFS out to a range of 12 at 15,000 feet. I appreciate that the game is not broken, but it is very dispirting to have no launch day after day and I wish I could figure out what was wrong.



apbarog -> RE: Carriers won't launch (1/24/2019 1:24:53 AM)

Other possibilities include carriers that have used up all of their sorties and carriers that are overcrowded.

[Edit: Were you trying to fly carrier strikes to a range of 11? I don't think that is possible]



apbarog -> RE: Carriers won't launch (1/24/2019 1:36:28 AM)

Per Alfred:

"There is a hard coded maximum limit at which carrier aircraft will launch; 7 hexes for the Allies, 8 hexes for Japan."

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3245238&mpage=1&key=carrier%2Cstrike%2Crange�


This is true no matter what the maximum range of the carrier aircraft is, if you are flying from a carrier.



John B. -> RE: Carriers won't launch (1/24/2019 1:58:43 AM)

The hard coded limit is good to know as a general matter, but I was 7 hexes away in the first instance when there was 6 failures to launch. Two turns before that they were only 4 hexes away from the allied ships and did not launch in either the morning or afternoon, but, land based air have attacked in all of these situations. Here is one of the carriers in the current TF.

[image]local://upfiles/39741/DAD42F8B18784D98B7DE9DF42E858E17.jpg[/image]



John B. -> RE: Carriers won't launch (1/24/2019 1:59:24 AM)

and, another one. Only 4 CVs in this and about 15 ships total.

[image]local://upfiles/39741/11D11914E1A04F178CA847EF242019B1.jpg[/image]



BBfanboy -> RE: Carriers won't launch (1/24/2019 6:10:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John B.

The hard coded limit is good to know as a general matter, but I was 7 hexes away in the first instance when there was 6 failures to launch. Two turns before that they were only 4 hexes away from the allied ships and did not launch in either the morning or afternoon, but, land based air have attacked in all of these situations. Here is one of the carriers in the current TF.

[image]local://upfiles/39741/DAD42F8B18784D98B7DE9DF42E858E17.jpg[/image]

I'm not familiar with the Jill data, but 12 hexes seems like drop tank range. If so, it might not have been able to carry any bombs and certainly would not carry a torpedo that far.
Also, 15K feet sounds pretty high for spotting things. The developers have said 6K feet is the best compromise altitude for area covered vs. chance of spotting things.



rustysi -> RE: Carriers won't launch (1/25/2019 6:00:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John B.

Here is one of the squadrons that does not launch, day after day. Good leader, experienced, in range, no fatigue.

[image]local://upfiles/39741/1D77CA1B0022413C848BD46BF3BA586F.jpg[/image]



TBH, that squadron and leader are not that hot.

Also remember the game considers the 'threat' of the target. If your Netties go after it that may be deemed enough and the CV's will sit tight. Also I've never seen a carrier strike at 12 hexes.



rustysi -> RE: Carriers won't launch (1/25/2019 6:03:23 PM)

quote:

I have two squadrons set on search on my carrier TFS out to a range of 12 at 15,000 feet.


Try an altitude of 5-6000 feet. And a range of 8.



rustysi -> RE: Carriers won't launch (1/25/2019 6:10:08 PM)

In addition, I've no idea why you've placed the groups you have on your CV's. A better option would be to resize its inherent air groups to fit the CV. If the others are from CV's that have been sunk it would be better to use them as LBA or for training.



anarchyintheuk -> RE: Carriers won't launch (1/25/2019 6:47:01 PM)

Five squadron CV
Bad juju enters program
Abo flies transports




Lowpe -> RE: Carriers won't launch (1/25/2019 10:16:54 PM)

1. Rather than assigning two squadrons as specialized naval search, assign 10% of attack squadrons each to naval search. With the KB this should give you a good search where you aren't relying upon only two squadrons to search.

2. You should be using a fair number of Jakes on both day and night search.

3. You will never launch an aerial attack against ships at ranges greater than 8. You can sweep bases, port strikes etc at longer ranges.

4. Avoid flank speed runs.

5. You will only ever have one attack in the morning and or one attack in the afternoon. A lot depends upon your DL.

6. You need to maximize DL, which means pinging those ships with multiple squadrons on naval search.

7. Iboats, and other land base naval search will help raise DL.

8. The final weather for the day is different than those during the turn replay.

9. don't overstack your CVs.

10. 72 planes capacity with 79 actual with 5 squadrons seems a recipe for transporting planes and not launching bombing missions. Keep squadron capacity at 4 or less. Then when you add the potential size for those squadrons, you are substantially over the capacity of the ships. Check that too, and keep potential size under CV capacity.




panzer cat -> RE: Carriers won't launch (1/27/2019 12:38:53 AM)

according to the Manuel page 142 "Also, carriers may never carry more then 5 air units at one time". Has this been changed in a upgrade? Pg 163 for naval target selection "cv, bb, ca/cl, transports then other ships." Also on pg 163 targets are more likely to be attacked within 180 miles(5 hexes).

Kentucky beat Kansas [:D]



John B. -> RE: Carriers won't launch (1/28/2019 12:21:52 AM)

Lowpe, Anarch, Rustyi thanks for the very helpful advice! My carriers finally caught up with the DD TF and sank 4 out of 6. That was good enough for me. :) I'll take all of your advice to heart for future strikes!!



John B. -> RE: Carriers won't launch (1/28/2019 12:23:53 AM)

Also thanks to APbarog, BBfanboy & Canoerebel!!



John B. -> RE: Carriers won't launch (3/22/2019 12:59:20 PM)

It's happening again! Many bad words!!!! The KB is just a couple of hexes away from the CVE TF. There is no bad weather in either hex. And, I've noted the actual weather. I have two CV TFs with the best Japanese carrier TF commanders in charge. The planes are all set at ranges of 7 or 8. There is LBA detection and carrier search detection (for some reason the carrier search squadron took off but no one else did). If my planes did not want to attack the CV TF that was right next door the TF up to the north is full of AMCs.

[image]local://upfiles/39741/F3F68A9FA4D24363A7CD1280EC29AA9D.jpg[/image]



John B. -> RE: Carriers won't launch (3/22/2019 1:05:28 PM)

Here is the actual reported composition of the allied TF.

[image]local://upfiles/39741/F6EDDAC7A4A34C32A9F7CC933D65B361.jpg[/image]



John B. -> RE: Carriers won't launch (3/22/2019 1:06:37 PM)

I took a number of suggestions to heart, so, for example, you can see that the Amagi is all Amagi squadrons.



John B. -> RE: Carriers won't launch (3/22/2019 1:07:01 PM)

Ooops, here you go.

[image]local://upfiles/39741/92FE22BBBA0F4D61892AE5692AA9FF84.jpg[/image]



John B. -> RE: Carriers won't launch (3/22/2019 1:07:34 PM)

Certainly set on anti-naval at a range of 7.

[image]local://upfiles/39741/420CA8A2D0F441EAA08CBC86B45E0330.jpg[/image]



John B. -> RE: Carriers won't launch (3/22/2019 1:11:27 PM)

And a very good Japanese TF commander for air ops.

Honestly, I've played the allies in three campaign games and never once did their CVs fail to launch an airstrike against ships in range. IN this game Scott has never moved carriers near me and they failed to launch a strike.

It cannot always be that just in this game (and only for the Japanese) that unseen and urecorded bad weather stops my strikes no matter how lucrative the target. If there is not some glitch then what am I do wrong over and over again?

[image]local://upfiles/39741/277E4D6FEAD14BB3BDD32C5AEFDF44BC.jpg[/image]



John B. -> RE: Carriers won't launch (3/22/2019 2:22:16 PM)

BTW, I checked with Scott, he said he only had fighters and squadrons dedicated to search on his carriers so at least there is a reason for his carriers to not attack (but, of course, this has not been an allied problem since they have NEVER been close and not attacked). Is there a Joe Btfsplk line in the code for Japanese carrier operations? (you younguns will have to google that reference).



apbarog -> RE: Carriers won't launch (3/22/2019 4:43:08 PM)

Long ago, I was playing as the Japanese and had a full KB, all in one task force, fresh from Pearl Harbor, chasing 2 US carriers near Timor. I was in range of a single carrier task force for 3 days in a row, and nothing launched. Weather was not bad, and there were no apparent reasons for the failure to attack. Finally my opponent recommended that I split up the task force. I did so and sank the carriers immediately.

I can't say that too many carriers in one task force was the definite reason that prevented any strikes, but it appeared that way.



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