SBD vs. Helldiver (Full Version)

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IdahoNYer -> SBD vs. Helldiver (3/4/2019 2:27:59 AM)

Question for the Allied Fanboys....

Is it worthwhile swapping out SBD-5s for the SB2C-3 or waiting until the -4 shows up?

Concerned about the 2 service ratings more than anything else.

Thoughts?



RangerJoe -> RE: SBD vs. Helldiver (3/4/2019 2:35:34 AM)

The SBD was considered the best dive bomber of the war. I prefer to stick with it.



Anachro -> RE: SBD vs. Helldiver (3/4/2019 2:39:47 AM)

Barring real life issues, the SB2Cs, even the -3, do fine in game and I make use of either depending on what's available in the pools.



HansBolter -> RE: SBD vs. Helldiver (3/4/2019 11:25:22 AM)

SBD5 and especially SBD6 production rates are nowhere near adequate to service the ever expanding need.

I'm in September of '45 now and approximately 25% of my fleet air squadrons are still flying SBDs.

The pools of Son of Bitch Second Class airframes will far outstrip the pools of SBDs



Macclan5 -> RE: SBD vs. Helldiver (3/4/2019 12:15:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

SBD5 and especially SBD6 production rates are nowhere near adequate to service the ever expanding need.

I'm in September of '45 now and approximately 25% of my fleet air squadrons are still flying SBDs.

The pools of Son of Bitch Second Class airframes will far outstrip the pools of SBDs



Concur with Hans.

The "5" is a solid mid game plane and solid Carrier TF upgrade as soon as possible. So in 43/44 I try to load up my CVs with the 5 extensively.

You / I / we can have '5s and 6s' on CV fleets but you also have to micromanage it (PDU On - obviously)

As I recall : A number of SOPAC / CENPAC USMC squadrons come fully equipped with the 5 ... downgrade the VMF - Updated the Carriers.

Problem is some of those VMF squadrons are also highly valuable off island airbases depending where you are in game.

So its a classic trade off.

Where and how do you need to project force - against your opponent.

By mid 44 - I 'buy in' for the SOB 2nd class.



Barb -> RE: SBD vs. Helldiver (3/5/2019 10:04:29 AM)

SB2C carries more bombs (thus higher hit chance) than SBD.

Just switch the TBF/TBM to the Naval Search instead of the Dive bombers. Reserve SB2C only to Naval Strike and no search - helps keep the higher SR plane operational. TBF/TBM frames also carries a radar and was used in NavS/ASW at that time more than SB2C. (Early war it was SBD while TBD/TBF/TBM were reserved for torpedo strikes).



RangerJoe -> RE: SBD vs. Helldiver (3/5/2019 10:41:34 AM)

I have never gotten to the late war as the computer always gives up in 1943 . . .



HansBolter -> RE: SBD vs. Helldiver (3/5/2019 11:25:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I have never gotten to the late war as the computer always gives up in 1943 . . .



I too had this problem playing 20-30 games over a decade that never made it into '44.

My current game is the first to ever reach '44 let alone '45.

I'm playing scenario 40, AndyMac's Ironman Nasty Ported to Babes.

I did slow pace thing in late '43 and early '44 to ensure the AI would remain viable.

I never raided offensively with my carriers, using them only to cover invasions.

I'm in September '45 now prepping for the invasion of Kyushu.

The AI doesn't have much navy left and is bottled up in the HI anyway, but every major base has huge stacks of LCUs and 250+ fighters. There are 577 LCUs stacked in Tokyo with over 500 fighters.

Gotterdamerung is coming!




Macclan5 -> RE: SBD vs. Helldiver (3/5/2019 2:04:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RangerJoe

I have never gotten to the late war as the computer always gives up in 1943 . . .


[8D]

Depends what you want ?

Hans maybe a far better expert than I to address this - however I am assuming 'scored victory'.

I am playing through my 3rd full OC as the Allies with all the AI updates - but still essentially vanilla

Is the definition of victory:

1) The tactical score ratio ?

2) The occupation of Tokyo ?

In fairness - I have seen others opine that the last year of the war - 1944 / 45 verses the AI is a slugfest. Siege - surround - bombard - air bomb - rinse - repeat - repeat repeat if worried by the number and type of 'electron casualties you take'.

That is the AI has outstanding fortification building scripts and position troops adroitly on Okinawa / Iwo / Home Islands / last bit of Manchuria etc etc. I would attest that late 44 / early 45 is a 'slugfest' in my experience but I enjoy the goal of true 'almost historical end game'.

Landing(s) on the Home Islands with 100% prep - multi division - multi support still can take significant losses.

Iwo for example has been a real tough nut in all three instances - 30K troops - coastal artillery - Level 6+ fortifications - consistently. I have never attempted Amphib landings near Tokyo always preferring further afield points and marching to the capital.

Disclaimers
--

I was lucky enough to get three very different AI scripts each game.

I have experimented with different 'avenues' of attack i.e. Traditional vs Burma/China vs DEI northwards.

This time around I intend to make multiple saves and 'play with the bomb' outcome and effects





rustysi -> RE: SBD vs. Helldiver (3/5/2019 3:11:31 PM)

quote:

Gotterdamerung is coming!


Ya think.[:D]



HansBolter -> RE: SBD vs. Helldiver (3/5/2019 3:30:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

quote:

Gotterdamerung is coming!


Ya think.[:D]



The one really odd thing in these Ironman games is that the plethora of German units operating in the Indian and Pacific oceans keep on fighting after Germany has surrendered.

I'm still encountering U-Boats in September of '45.



rustysi -> RE: SBD vs. Helldiver (3/5/2019 4:53:34 PM)

quote:

I'm still encountering U-Boats in September of '45.


[:(]



GetAssista -> RE: SBD vs. Helldiver (3/5/2019 5:44:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter
The one really odd thing in these Ironman games is that the plethora of German units operating in the Indian and Pacific oceans keep on fighting after Germany has surrendered.

I'm still encountering U-Boats in September of '45.

Being closer to Japan (and being supplied by Japan I guess) they got infused with some of that samurai spirit



RangerJoe -> RE: SBD vs. Helldiver (3/5/2019 6:11:01 PM)

I put my Allied game on pause and I am now trying Japan.

In my Allied game, only the Akagi is left of the original 6 carriers and the Junyo is gone as well. Three CVLs and 2 CVEs as well as 4 BBs. It is currently May of 1942 and I have yet to lose an aircraft carrier. I need to see if there are better AI scripts out there. I think that I saw something about that.

quote:

GetAssista

Being closer to Japan (and being supplied by Japan I guess) they got infused with some of that samurai spirit


It is called saki . . . [sm=party-smiley-012.gif]



IdahoNYer -> RE: SBD vs. Helldiver (3/6/2019 5:59:22 PM)

Thanks guys, appreciate the input!

Barb - I think you nailed the solution!

Hans....you gotta try PBEM!



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