RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris)

RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (Full Version)

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Uncivil Engineer -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (4/9/2019 11:04:11 AM)
Here's the plan for Luzon: [image]local://upfiles/41215/7781F203D8C140B2967912FD7E0430F4.jpg[/image] Edit: The Dec 7 TF to Taytay has been changed to Puerto Princessa, but may not get there til Dec 8. I'll find out when I sandbox the turn BEFORE sending. Aparri will also be on Dec 7, not 9th, but the assault force has been reduced to a tank regiment, JAAF, and construction unit. Since it's not loaded yet, it too may arrive on the 8th. Another Edit: I ran a quick sandbox of this today, and some of the moving parts didn't move like I expected, so the plan is being revised and a new map will be posted (when it runs correctly).

Uncivil Engineer -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (4/9/2019 11:05:07 AM)
Ah hah! I was expected the map to show up during preview. Edit: "expected"? Guess I need to read these a few times before hitting OK. Make that "expecting".

Bif1961 -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (4/9/2019 1:40:51 PM)
Nice graphic can't wait to see if such a pretty plan works as planned.

Uncivil Engineer -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (4/9/2019 8:37:56 PM)
Anyone know whether Dec 7 consists of ONLY a day phase? No night. I noticed that if Force Z runs east at mach 1 it can reach Miri, but it only went half that far. And 2 of my warp TFs didn't go quite as far as I anticipated, ending 3 or 4 hexes short of the intended destination.

jdsrae -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (4/9/2019 8:55:49 PM)
Just the day “half” of a full turn

Uncivil Engineer -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (4/11/2019 8:45:08 PM)
Here's my first cut at aircraft research. I'm less concerned with having the best planes in 1945 than getting to June 1942. This table is Dec 7 before a turn is run, so supply hasn't had a chance to move around. And to not use up all the supply on Honshu on Dec 8 I'm going to limit increases in these numbers to 1000 supply per city (that's an increase of 10 aircraft of a type). That's in addition to any 1000 that might be spent if a 0(1) becomes 1(0), for example. [image]local://upfiles/41215/AFF13AFFFDEB4E9DAFE38E1FA9D9D335.jpg[/image] Edit to add: So a city with 3 factories increasing from 0(1) to 0(30) would take 9 days, by increasing only one of the factories by 10 each day. And the aircraft types with the most factories will be increased first. Also, I'm not finished with this. Some aircraft types still on this list use engines that aren't going to be produced, so they will be changed over the first week as things sort out. My opponent is preparing for a trip to the Baltic and won't be back until the end of April. Our game should start on or after May 1.

Uncivil Engineer -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (4/13/2019 4:47:28 PM)
Engine Research and Production (Dec 7) - Very few of these have been expanded, yet. As with aircraft research and aircraft production, a cap of 1000 supply expenditure per city per day will be used. It's not as bad as it sounds, 1000 for aircraft production, 1000 for engine production/research, and 1000 for aircraft research totals to 3000 per city per day. Most cities will be at desired levels within a week. [image]local://upfiles/41215/5B2463634B804A00AD7DD0D13328395E.jpg[/image] Edit to add: Now everyone can put in their 2 cents.

GetAssista -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (4/13/2019 6:34:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Uncivil Engineer And to not use up all the supply on Honshu on Dec 8 I'm going to limit increases in these numbers to 1000 supply per city (that's an increase of 10 aircraft of a type). That's quite a strange threshold. 1) running out of supply is nothing scary even if you manage to do it. You just wait for more supply to be generated. 2) you can manage your supply perfectly with sliders and starting/stopping building/repairs if needed. 3) for most of the planes you want to R&D you should order 30 size R&D factories ASAP to get a faster repair rate. Also, it is pointless to research many models in the same upgrade sequence at once (like you plan with Jill or Judy or Frances). Research the early one, then switch factories. Factories will be reapired much faster.

PaxMondo -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (4/14/2019 3:09:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GetAssista quote: ORIGINAL: Uncivil Engineer And to not use up all the supply on Honshu on Dec 8 I'm going to limit increases in these numbers to 1000 supply per city (that's an increase of 10 aircraft of a type). That's quite a strange threshold. 1) running out of supply is nothing scary even if you manage to do it. You just wait for more supply to be generated. 2) you can manage your supply perfectly with sliders and starting/stopping building/repairs if needed. 3) for most of the planes you want to R&D you should order 30 size R&D factories ASAP to get a faster repair rate. Also, it is pointless to research many models in the same upgrade sequence at once (like you plan with Jill or Judy or Frances). Research the early one, then switch factories. Factories will be reapired much faster. +1 Your original plan, as I read it (and I admit I may be mistaken) is not the most efficient in terms of either supply use NOR time to get RnD accomplished.

Uncivil Engineer -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (4/14/2019 8:05:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GetAssista quote: ORIGINAL: Uncivil Engineer And to not use up all the supply on Honshu on Dec 8 I'm going to limit increases in these numbers to 1000 supply per city (that's an increase of 10 aircraft of a type). That's quite a strange threshold. 1) running out of supply is nothing scary even if you manage to do it. You just wait for more supply to be generated. 2) you can manage your supply perfectly with sliders and starting/stopping building/repairs if needed. 3) for most of the planes you want to R&D you should order 30 size R&D factories ASAP to get a faster repair rate. Also, it is pointless to research many models in the same upgrade sequence at once (like you plan with Jill or Judy or Frances). Research the early one, then switch factories. Factories will be reapired much faster. 1) I wouldn't know, I've never run out of supply, and I don't intend to. 2) Yeah, sliders already set in all the production and/or research cities. Supply will move when the Dec 7 turn runs. 3) Yeah, 30 is my target for just about everything (or multiples of 30 for engines). As you can see, many of the cities don't have much supply at start so production and/or research can't be increased (or can't be increased much). I'll change the Judy 3 to Judy 1 and the Jill 2 to Jill 1, to speed both of the earlier ones. Guess I can do that with Frances, as well.

GetAssista -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (4/14/2019 9:27:45 AM)
Now for some specifics. Almost no CV Sam, and too few factories to George and Frank-a to my JFB liking. Those are your most important airframes. Some plans for the dedicated kamikaze airframes would be nice too. In general, you seem to want your R&D all over the place with not enough concentration on what is critical for Japan - fighters. It is not clear if you are playing PDU On or Off, but most of the unimportant airframes (transports/recons/patrols/level bombers) do not really deserve research, and you can produce them by rearranging older production factories as soon as they become available historically. And many do not deserve production at all like some of Randy's or A6M3, or non-torp Peggy. Exotic jets/Shindens are also debatable. quote: ORIGINAL: Uncivil Engineer 3) Yeah, 30 is my target for just about everything (or multiples of 30 for engines). As you can see, many of the cities don't have much supply at start so production and/or research can't be increased (or can't be increased much). What I see is a lot of cities with lots of supplies and less-than-30-size R&D factories. Which is a good thing so far by the way since you might want to change your R&D priorities

PaxMondo -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (4/14/2019 11:35:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GetAssista Now for some specifics. Almost no CV Sam, and too few factories to George and Frank-a to my JFB liking. Those are your most important airframes. Some plans for the dedicated kamikaze airframes would be nice too. In general, you seem to want your R&D all over the place with not enough concentration on what is critical for Japan - fighters. It is not clear if you are playing PDU On or Off, but most of the unimportant airframes (transports/recons/patrols/level bombers) do not really deserve research, and you can produce them by rearranging older production factories as soon as they become available historically. And many do not deserve production at all like some of Randy's or A6M3, or non-torp Peggy. Exotic jets/Shindens are also debatable. quote: ORIGINAL: Uncivil Engineer 3) Yeah, 30 is my target for just about everything (or multiples of 30 for engines). As you can see, many of the cities don't have much supply at start so production and/or research can't be increased (or can't be increased much). What I see is a lot of cities with lots of supplies and less-than-30-size R&D factories. Which is a good thing so far by the way since you might want to change your R&D priorities +1

Uncivil Engineer -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (4/14/2019 12:25:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GetAssista Now for some specifics. Almost no CV Sam, and too few factories to George and Frank-a to my JFB liking. Those are your most important airframes. Some plans for the dedicated kamikaze airframes would be nice too. In general, you seem to want your R&D all over the place with not enough concentration on what is critical for Japan - fighters. It is not clear if you are playing PDU On or Off, but most of the unimportant airframes (transports/recons/patrols/level bombers) do not really deserve research, and you can produce them by rearranging older production factories as soon as they become available historically. And many do not deserve production at all like some of Randy's or A6M3, or non-torp Peggy. Exotic jets/Shindens are also debatable. quote: ORIGINAL: Uncivil Engineer 3) Yeah, 30 is my target for just about everything (or multiples of 30 for engines). As you can see, many of the cities don't have much supply at start so production and/or research can't be increased (or can't be increased much). What I see is a lot of cities with lots of supplies and less-than-30-size R&D factories. Which is a good thing so far by the way since you might want to change your R&D priorities OK, I've already increased R&D at cities with large supply. Since the turn hasn't gone off yet, I can still make changes.

Uncivil Engineer -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (4/14/2019 3:06:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GetAssista It is not clear if you are playing PDU On or Off, but most of the unimportant airframes (transports/recons/patrols/level bombers) do not really deserve research, and you can produce them by rearranging older production factories as soon as they become available historically. PDU on and Realistic R&D. OK, question on IJN recon/patrol aircraft. At start the Jake seems preferable to Pete, Alf, and Dave. I've already changed Pete production to Jakes and will replace all Petes, Alfs, and Daves over time. Meanwhile, many of the older planes will train ASW, recon, and search. Those on the "front lines" and on ships will do their normal jobs. The Jake replacement that does not (I assume) require research, the Jake -1b, becomes available 11/44, and increases the gun value of the Jake. What about Norm? Does it just magically become available 8/43? Or must it be researched? Since it's in R&D on Dec 7 I assume it must be researched to become available. I haven't made it as far as 8/43 in a game yet to find out. If research is not required, I can change that factory to some naval fighter. Next question - Rex? Seems to be a replacement for the Rufe, but it has less range and bomb load, but increased durability. Looks like something I can do without. Replace it with a naval fighter, too? IJN land-based patrol craft - Start with C5M2 Babs - decent range and SR 1. The first available replacement, Judy -1C 10/42 gives up range and maneuverability for slight increase in durability and SR 2. CV-rated, but can also be used on a runway. Next is Irving-C - better range, gun, and durability than Babs, but less maneuverable and SR 2. Is it needed? Finally, the Myrt. CV rated like Judy, and much better range. Does it need to be researched to replace the Judy -1C, or does it magically become available? One of these (Judy -1C, Irving-C, or Myrt) needs to be available to replace the Babs, or more Babs need to be produced.

BillBrown -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (4/14/2019 3:24:14 PM)
No aircraft model has to be researched. They all have an availability date and that is when you will be able to start building them. The R&D only works to make them available before that date.

Uncivil Engineer -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (4/14/2019 5:22:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BillBrown No aircraft model has to be researched. They all have an availability date and that is when you will be able to start building them. The R&D only works to make them available before that date. Yikes! Been playing this stupid game about 10 years, and DID NOT KNOW THAT!

PaxMondo -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (4/14/2019 11:58:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Uncivil Engineer quote: ORIGINAL: BillBrown No aircraft model has to be researched. They all have an availability date and that is when you will be able to start building them. The R&D only works to make them available before that date. Yikes! Been playing this stupid game about 10 years, and DID NOT KNOW THAT! Ouch. That is why we were suggesting a very focused RnD on a short list of planes that can make a REAL impact upon your game. These are generally fighters. Which ones will vary based upon your strategy. George, Frank, Sam are common ones to focus on, but don't think that there isn't some thought needed to decide which ones. These have been discussed at great length in several other threads recently. You should review the discussions to get a good perspective.

Uncivil Engineer -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (4/15/2019 8:48:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo quote: ORIGINAL: Uncivil Engineer quote: ORIGINAL: BillBrown No aircraft model has to be researched. They all have an availability date and that is when you will be able to start building them. The R&D only works to make them available before that date. Yikes! Been playing this stupid game about 10 years, and DID NOT KNOW THAT! Ouch. That is why we were suggesting a very focused RnD on a short list of planes that can make a REAL impact upon your game. These are generally fighters. Which ones will vary based upon your strategy. George, Frank, Sam are common ones to focus on, but don't think that there isn't some thought needed to decide which ones. These have been discussed at great length in several other threads recently. You should review the discussions to get a good perspective. Good thing for me the first turn hasn't been sent yet. My opponent is on a trip to the Baltic and won't be home til April 26, so I have restarted from scratch and have 11 days to re-do everything. Question on Sam - A7M2 is no better than A6M5c, so I assume you would want to research the A7M3-J for its gun? I tentatively have 8 factories for this. Also, 8 for Frank, George, and Rufe, 6 for Tojo, and 5 for Judy and Jill. That leaves a few for other stuff I'm still undecided on. Here's my understanding on how the Rufe to A6M8 series works - starting with 8 Rufe factories researched to 30(0), the Rufe becomes available in April 42 (not likely that it will advance to March). On April 1, one factory goes into production and the other 7 convert to 30(0) A6M5 and stay repaired. These generate 210 research points per month, allowing the M5 to advance ~2 months every month, and becoming available in about Oct 42, maybe Sep (advancing 10-11 months from Aug 43 in 5-6 months). When the A6M5 research is complete, 1 factory goes into production (and all A6M2 producing factories convert to A6M5, for ~120-140 A6M5 per month) and the other 6 convert to 30(0) A6M5b and stay repaired. These generate 180 research points per month, advancing the A6M5b a month every 17 days (100/6). Thus, the A6M5b advances from Jun 44 to mid 43. Rinse and repeat with the A6M5c. Is this right?

GetAssista -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (4/15/2019 11:47:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Uncivil Engineer Question on Sam - A7M2 is no better than A6M5c... Really? JFBs would cry blasphemy. What kind of mod are you playing? Just look on the stats once again, now paying attention to where it really matters - speed, climb and durability Almost nobody researches A7M3-J because it is a non-CV model which does not benefit from A7M2 R&D in stock scenarios. Your description of R&D process is correct. There can be a shortcut (switching factories to later models at some point w/o researching intermediate ones to production) but it comes with its own drawbacks plus you really need to discuss it with your opponent cause many view it as too much of an advantage

Uncivil Engineer -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (4/15/2019 1:43:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GetAssista quote: ORIGINAL: Uncivil Engineer Question on Sam - A7M2 is no better than A6M5c... Really? JFBs would cry blasphemy. What kind of mod are you playing? Just look on the stats once again, now paying attention to where it really matters - speed, climb and durability Almost nobody researches A7M3-J because it is a non-CV model which does not benefit from A7M2 R&D in stock scenarios. Your description of R&D process is correct. There can be a shortcut (switching factories to later models at some point w/o researching intermediate ones to production) but it comes with its own drawbacks plus you really need to discuss it with your opponent cause many view it as too much of an advantage You're right - I was really only looking at gun value and range. Thanks for the info.

PaxMondo -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (4/17/2019 2:47:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Uncivil Engineer quote: ORIGINAL: GetAssista quote: ORIGINAL: Uncivil Engineer Question on Sam - A7M2 is no better than A6M5c... Really? JFBs would cry blasphemy. What kind of mod are you playing? Just look on the stats once again, now paying attention to where it really matters - speed, climb and durability Almost nobody researches A7M3-J because it is a non-CV model which does not benefit from A7M2 R&D in stock scenarios. Your description of R&D process is correct. There can be a shortcut (switching factories to later models at some point w/o researching intermediate ones to production) but it comes with its own drawbacks plus you really need to discuss it with your opponent cause many view it as too much of an advantage You're right - I was really only looking at gun value and range. Thanks for the info. This is what I see for Scen 1 … these are not the same plane at all …. 392 takes the Hellcat out of dominance, and it can stand with the F4U. A6M is outclassed badly by the F6F … The A7M3 is a weird duck … an NF but not classed as one. 10 knots faster, but gives up a lot of maneuver. And the 30mm type 5 has poor accuracy. Range and effect are great, but against other fighters I have not had great success. It does do well against 4E's, but you have other AC at that time that do as well. I'm not a fan. [image]local://upfiles/29386/A6C74867866A4434B5414311EF87078A.jpg[/image]

Uncivil Engineer -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (5/7/2019 7:32:06 AM)
Let the game begin !! My opponent has returned from his Baltic trip and had 10 days with the Dec 7 turn (and some computer hiccups that caused delays) and we have finally finished Turn ONE. The aircraft losses for Dec 7 are shown below - this is with NO surprise. His fighters and bombers could fly, but not attack any Japanese base. So, the Warhawks on Luzon flew CAP and the B-17s flew naval attack (although they didn't hit anything). Betty losses were due to some bombing missions being flown before all the sweeps. [image]local://upfiles/41215/3A535042B55B4483BE2DD739D5F4E170.jpg[/image] Edit to add: I'm not displeased with these results. Let's hope it can continue (or improve).

Uncivil Engineer -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (5/7/2019 7:37:06 AM)
Here's the situation in and around Malaya before the Dec 8 turn and some planned actions for Dec 8. [image]local://upfiles/41215/584B09AC0C6C467FAA657A10A95D477A.jpg[/image] Edit to add: It looks like Force Z is headed out of the area, along with most of the ships in port at Singapore, probably empty. Although in range of his torpedo bombers at Singapore, the 4 CV TF under Nagumo was not attacked. It will move NW on Dec 8 to maybe pick off some runners, but also fly LRCAP over the Kuantan invasion TF going in with cover from BBs Kongo and Haruna. Four other BBs will cover the Mersing force prior to its landing on Dec 9. Allied air power on Malaya seems to be diminished from what I recall from other games, so he may have flown some out to Palembang, or elsewhere. The Japanese suffered one major disaster (not shown on the map); the 7 oilers supporting the KB were moving from Etorofu to Cam Ranh Bay, but ran into 3 British destroyers fleeing Hong Kong. The 2 IJN escorting DDs sustained minimal damage, but ALL SEVEN AOs WERE SUNK (VP = 7*28 = 196). OUCH! Four CVs and 4 BBs went through the same space without incident. Either my routing was poor, or he got lucky (or both). 2nd Edit: There may be mines at Mersing, as a CM was sunk there by carrier DBs.

Uncivil Engineer -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (5/7/2019 8:13:06 AM)
The Dec 7 landings on Luzon (slightly different from my previous post concerning this): [image]local://upfiles/41215/AA4C0E0D7B59460C902DFB3A66D19A5A.jpg[/image] Edit to add: The 2 regiments of 16 Div that start at Amami Oshima are enroute to Atimonan, but show Legaspi as destination (Atimonan is a waypoint.) The Miura Det from Babeldaob is also enroute with same deception. He may not get intel on these TFs and if he does it may not make any difference, but I've got to try something to counter his code breaking advantage. The plan is to get 16 Div fully formed at Atimonan before moving through Lucena and Batangas to Manila. In the meantime, Tanaka and Kanno have already recombined into 2 Formosa Rgt at Vigan. After capturing that base on Dec 8, they will move to join the rest of 48 Div enroute from Pescadores to San Fernando, with amphib assault expected on Dec 9. If possible I want 48 Div in contact at Clark Field when 16 Div captures Manila. If he tries to defend both, his Manila defenders may have no retreat route. We'll see how he plays it. I haven't decided on a mission for 65 Bde, yet. Landing at Iba or Batangas are my 2 favorite options, depending on which division (16 or 48) needs reinforcement. They'll load as soon as transports are available.

Bif1961 -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (5/8/2019 4:11:45 PM)
Good luck now that the hot war has begun, instead of the sitzkrieg you were facing while your opponent was on vacation.

AleRonin -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (5/8/2019 6:38:10 PM)
Good luck and thanks for the AAR [:)]

Uncivil Engineer -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (5/11/2019 10:38:18 AM)
Dec 8 The Kuantan landing went in as planned. One of the Dutch subs tried to interfere and took 7 hits for its effort. quote: Sub attack near Kuantan at 51,79 Japanese Ships DD Hibiki CA Takao DD Michishio DD Akatsuki DD Arashio Allied Ships SS KXII, hits 7 The Makin landing was unmolested. Vigan, Aparri, Naga, Miri, Brunei, Puerto Princessa, Makin and Kota Bharu were all captured. Laoag on the NW tip of Luzon was captured by air drop; these guys will be extracted by air on Dec 9. Langkawi (near Alor Star) flipped to Japanese control. About 5 transports were sunk by air attack, the most significant being quote: Morning Air attack on TF, near Manila at 79,77 Weather in hex: Heavy rain Raid detected at 57 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 21 minutes Japanese aircraft D3A1 Val x 25 No Japanese losses Allied Ships xAP President Madison, Bomb hits 16, and is sunk Allied ground losses: 10 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 32 destroyed, 23 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Vehicles lost 65 (36 destroyed, 29 disabled) Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAP President Madison I'm not sure what he loaded at Manila, but it's at the bottom of the bay now. The landing at Atimonan is a day behind schedule and will go in on Dec 9, as well as the landing at Mersing. The amphib TF carrying the Guam landing force shows Wake as its destination, as does the amphib TF carrying the Tarawa landing force. Both will change to the true destinations when they get close to the waypoints. CarDiv 1+ (CV Akagi, CV Kaga, and CVL Ryujo) will leave the east coast of Luzon for Saipan, then Truk, to keep an eye out for US carriers. And support operations around Rabaul.

AleRonin -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (5/11/2019 11:26:50 AM)
quote: I'm not sure what he loaded at Manila, but it's at the bottom of the bay now. Lot of vehicles, I would say a BF or a tank bn.

Uncivil Engineer -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (5/11/2019 1:07:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AleRonin quote: I'm not sure what he loaded at Manila, but it's at the bottom of the bay now. Lot of vehicles, I would say a BF or a tank bn. He has 388 AFVs at Clark, so it's likely not one of the tank battalions. But, did he really think he could evacuate something from Manila with 2+ carriers sitting off the east coast of Luzon? It seems his fighters have left Luzon, too. Probably in central Philippine Islands or Mindanao. Or he could have bought them out. But, why would he?

Uncivil Engineer -> RE: Wait... What! (NO Chris) (5/11/2019 1:09:09 PM)
Here's the latest (0200 Dec 9) in China - [image]local://upfiles/41215/B7CE5D31C95F4497ABC2F0A8BD93C0BA.jpg[/image] Edit to add: Looks like a lot of Chinese units are heading for higher ground and not waiting for the Japanese to push them in that direction. Phase 1 of my plan is to get all Chinese units SE of the red line (my future defensive front) out of there, by either retreat or destruction. Preferably retreat so they don't respawn at Chungking. Once both railroads are open for Japanese use all the way to Shanghai and Wuchang, then Phase 2 (the encirclement of Changsha) begins. In the southern part of China we'll prod the Chinese to move west, and try to keep those units from reaching Changsha. That last part might not be achievable.

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