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jdsrae -> RE: LandSupply (4/29/2019 8:17:28 AM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
quote:
ORIGINAL: jdsrae
I’m trying to figure out more about this at the moment.
If you haven’t already, read Alfred’s Log 101 especially the bits about how often supply moves in those front line areas and what burns supply.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2878790&mpage=1&key=logistics%2C101%26%2365533%3B
Just to feed them, ground units use one supply per month per device load cost as defined by the device database.
For Japan, most Divisions need about 1000 supply per month just to feed them, an Infantry Regiment about 300.
Alfred left out one detail which is how much supply land units use in combat. Probably because it depends on so many factors, but whenever something fires it uses an amount of supply.
Has anyone run any tests on how much supply different devices use during Bombardment, Deliberate and Shock attacks?
I ran a Coral Sea scenario last night to test what I can with a save game running different options to attack Port Moresby and counting he different amounts of supply used. Will post some thoughts from that later after I run it a few more times.
As your front line troops are at the far end of the supply pipeline, other units closer to your main bases may be using the supply with little to none left to move forward to the particular unit you are looking at. Also, 5 hexes is about 200miles for the supply to move which is further than some people go on their holidays. The terrain and type of road/rail it is trying to move over are key factors.
The only way is to bring more supply to the theatre.
You could also try to look for what else you have burning supply there (especially bomber air groups, other land units in combat, airgroups or land units with replacements on?)
I think this is another one of those doomed attempts to quantify the unquantifiable! In addition to ammo expended in combat there is the wastage when stuff gets dropped, the loss of materiel from enemy fire, medical supply in random amounts, equipment abandoned when the enemy overruns a position, additional water consumed by men sweating from every pore, fuel for vehicles, and stuff I haven't thought of. I am fairly sure the combat model has random factors which will make nailing this jelly down impossible.
I am certainly not going for precision which would be a mission impossible, but can report the following generalisations:
1. Supply just to feed a unit outside of combat can be calculated based on the sum of the number of each device times by the device load costs from the database. One unexpected/interesting detail I noticed was that the "load cost" shown on the LCU information screen is not the same, that particular load cost is the amount of troop or cargo space needed on a ship, which includes a factor of x2 or x3 for larger artillery pieces and vehicles.
2. From my calculations based on TOE and device loads costs, the maximum size unit Japan has to feed is the 14th Division, an A Type which requires 1357 Supply / month just to feed it. Vast majority of A and B Type infantry divisions need 1000-1100 Supply to feed them. C Type Divisions vary a lot, but 700-900 generally. Depot Divisions 500 each.
3. The above calculations passed some random checks I did on Japanese LCUs in Scenario 1.
4. I then ran some attack tests using the Coral Sea scenario, but for any statisticians who read this the "n" of units = 2 being the 144th Regt and Kure 3rd SNLF.
4. Bombardment attacks used about 1.5 to 1.8 times the "feed cost" but were pretty constant each time, which hinted to me to look at the indirect fire pieces only. My theory that I submit for peer review is that "Bombardment Cost" = "Feed cost" + 0.5x the number of firing artillery pieces. If you are doing log planning on an Army or Theatre scale you could just assume a factor of 2 x "feed cost" to Bombard.
5. Deliberate attacks took the base the first few times, which makes it impossible to check how much supply was used. A few points to note include that the amount of captured Supply and Fuel can vary greatly, sometimes with about 30% destroyed but others up to 80% or more.
6. Other Deliberate attacks used different amounts and I ran out of interest to try and "nail the jelly", but between 3 to 5 times the "feed cost". I assume it would be "Bombard Cost" + random number of rifle and other direct fire weapons firing. Makes sense to me that each Deliberate attack would use different amounts of Supply as soldiers will generally only fire at what they can target. Recon is probably a key factor to find more things for them to target.
7. I didn't try many Shock attack iterations but a few failed to take the base when Deliberate attacks succeeded. The few I tried burnt 7 to 8 times the "feed rate" of Supply, so I'm going to assume roughly double a Deliberate attack.
So in summary some very rough figures that might help with estimating how much Supply to take with you on your next invasion are that feeding an LCU costs X/day (let it sit for a few days and the LCU screen will tell you the number), Bombardments cost up to 2X, Deliberate Attacks cost about 4X and Shock Attacks cost about 8X.
Then maybe double the amount to cover everything else that can and will go wrong and you might just about have enough!
None of this matters if you play allies. Just load up task forces of 16xLiberty Ships each and send them forward a few task forces a week.
But for Japan, it's becoming clear to me that getting a handle on the forecast Supply use within each Theatre and then rationing bullets, food and bandages should come in handy, as there will never be vast excesses.
Also, losing devices to combat in itself doesn't burn supply, it's the replacement of them that does. So my default setting is to switch replacements off and only turn them back on deliberately, after checking that I have enough Supply to bring a certain unit back up to strength.
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