Supply question in China (Full Version)

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MTTODD -> Supply question in China (5/15/2019 9:28:18 PM)

Appreciate explanation as to why I cannot reinforce my Japanese units in following scenario:

I have HQ unit in Kweilin, and have Japanese army & corp units surrounding this HQ. Whene I press S for supply, I get 8 for HQ
and 5 & 6 for the other units. But when I try to reinforce the units, the option is blanked out.

What is the calculation that results in me not having enough supply to reinforce the units ? I am guessing it's because of the
terrain and it's raining ?

Just trying to understand the game better.

Any help greatly appreciated.








otumfuo2 -> RE: Supply question in China (5/15/2019 10:23:32 PM)

Do you have enough MPP's to reinforce?



BillRunacre -> RE: Supply question in China (5/16/2019 2:42:18 PM)

The rain won't matter, though mud can reduce supply which can impinge on reinforcing too.

MPPs sound the most likely issue here as otumfuo2 has suggested.



MTTODD -> RE: Supply question in China (5/16/2019 4:58:19 PM)

No that is not the reason, I had over 100MPP's



Christolos -> RE: Supply question in China (5/16/2019 5:42:37 PM)

Did the units have full action points?

C



MTTODD -> RE: Supply question in China (5/16/2019 6:57:17 PM)

Looked again at terrain, and there was Mud. Assume that was reason ?

What I really want is to understand the calculations involved, but could not see in the manual it explained very detailed.



Kriegsspieler -> RE: Supply question in China (5/17/2019 10:06:26 AM)

Yeah, I would agree that the way that supply is calculated isn't exactly transparent. This is a problem in several places. In the manual, for example, we are told that Major Capitals and Major Ports supply "up to 12," but 12 what? Units? Strength points? And by the way, again in the manual while "Major Capitals" supply 12 whatevers, "Major's Capitals" only supply 10 whatevers. Huh?

Even the numbers that come up when you use the "S" hotkey aren't completely obvious as to their meaning.

This would be a good thing to work on in a future patch, imo.



Hubert Cater -> RE: Supply question in China (5/17/2019 12:54:33 PM)

Hi Kriegsspeiler,

Resource strength directly translates into supply giving value to units, i.e. the supply value a unit receives from the resource and as shown on the unit properties under 'Supply'. So if a Major Port is at strength 12, then it can provide supply up to a maximum value of 12 which typically decreases by 1 supply point per hex as you move away from that supply source.

Hopefully this clarifies it?
Hubert



MTTODD -> RE: Supply question in China (5/18/2019 6:57:12 AM)

Hi Hubert,

Thanks for that, but what I meant was the calculation as to whether a unit can move into a hex.

For example if a unit has a supply value of 5 and 2 action points remaining but cannot move into adjacent hex, why is that ?

How can you easily see the factors stopping the move ?

Many thanks.









BillRunacre -> RE: Supply question in China (5/18/2019 8:53:34 AM)

Hi

There could be the terrain cost, e.g. if moving into Mountains, and/or the presence of enemy units exerting a Zone of Control, as this does limit movement somewhat too.



Kriegsspieler -> RE: Supply question in China (5/18/2019 11:54:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hubert Cater

Hi Kriegsspeiler,

Resource strength directly translates into supply giving value to units, i.e. the supply value a unit receives from the resource and as shown on the unit properties under 'Supply'. So if a Major Port is at strength 12, then it can provide supply up to a maximum value of 12 which typically decreases by 1 supply point per hex as you move away from that supply source.

Hopefully this clarifies it?
Hubert


Hubert, this does help, quite a bit, as does Bill's reply to MTTODD on the supply-based terrain costs. But I find there's still a bit too much going on under the hood to understand how to handle supply. For example, what is the threshold supply level to reinforce a unit up to its full nominal value of 10? I've got units sitting all over China in various states of depletion & I lack a clear sense of what is preventing their ability to reinforce. Is the reason that there is an excess number of units tracing supply from a single source, is it a terrain-driven problem, or is there an overall supply cap in China resulting from the scenario design?

In any case, I would propose going forward that the pretty minimal description of supply in the manual be extended, either by means of tooltips (best, in my opinion), or an addendum to the manual, or by an explanatory thread in this forum. The latter is a time-honored Matrix tradition -- I've still got several bookmarks from years ago to other threads where someone finally explains some obscure game concept (my favorite is Joel Billings' post on "initiative" for his and Grigsby's old game on the ACW)

And then there's that obscure reference to the difference between supply from a "Major Capital" and a "Major's Capital"! [:D]



MTTODD -> RE: Supply question in China (5/18/2019 2:01:30 PM)

But it's not very transparent to see whey it cant move into the hex. Would be good if the interface could display the details behind the moving analysis into a hex.




Hubert Cater -> RE: Supply question in China (5/21/2019 1:58:58 PM)

quote:

Hubert, this does help, quite a bit, as does Bill's reply to MTTODD on the supply-based terrain costs. But I find there's still a bit too much going on under the hood to understand how to handle supply. For example, what is the threshold supply level to reinforce a unit up to its full nominal value of 10? I've got units sitting all over China in various states of depletion & I lack a clear sense of what is preventing their ability to reinforce. Is the reason that there is an excess number of units tracing supply from a single source, is it a terrain-driven problem, or is there an overall supply cap in China resulting from the scenario design?


I would refer to section Supply Rules (page 89) of the Manual as well as section Supply & Reinforcements Table (page 164) that outlines the factors relating to supply and reinforcement.

Understanding this and then using the 'S' key to see the general supply map of your current turn in the area, as well as the current supply values of your units should paint a pretty good picture for you.




Hubert Cater -> RE: Supply question in China (5/21/2019 2:11:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MTTODD

But it's not very transparent to see whey it cant move into the hex. Would be good if the interface could display the details behind the moving analysis into a hex.



If I can ask, doesn't it already do this? The game automatically highlights the available movement hexes for you and anything that is unreachable is not highlighted. If it is not highlighted it simply means it is due to a lack of action points.

Perhaps a better understanding on the effects of terrain, weather, roads and zones of control will help?

I would refer to section 6.3.6. The Effect of Terrain on Land Movement of the Manual for more information. For zones of control, 3.6.21. Zone of Control Highlights and 4.1.9. Land Movement, and 4.1.10. Zone of Control.

In game, when you mouse hover over terrain it will show you the action point costs of the various terrains as a reminder as well.



Xenocide -> RE: Supply question in China (5/21/2019 5:05:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kriegsspieler

For example, what is the threshold supply level to reinforce a unit up to its full nominal value of 10?


Supply level 6 is what you need to get up to 10. Supply 5 gets you only to 8.



MTTODD -> RE: Supply question in China (5/22/2019 4:58:24 PM)

Hi Hubert,

I suppose what I was asking for would be for the system to show a breakdown of the factors involved when calculating the supply ?
on one screen. So you could then clearly see why the unit cannot move into a hex.

My applogies if the game already shows that breakdown.







Kriegsspieler -> RE: Supply question in China (5/23/2019 10:56:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hubert Cater

I would refer to section Supply Rules (page 89) of the Manual as well as section Supply & Reinforcements Table (page 164) that outlines the factors relating to supply and reinforcement.

Thank you - yes, that table is invaluable. It clarifies a great deal.



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